She Killed HERSELF!

[Lewkowski]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/...ide/index.html

This story has been everywhere the last week and I'm frankly sick of it.

Good grief. Now I'm not opposed to punishing people who did commit assault or potentially other crimes beyond the norm but people need to get perspective here. She CHOSE to commit suicide. No one forced her to. It was her choice.

Frankly they are making her to look like she is saint. What about the grief and horror her family is going through? Did she bother thinking about that? Suicide is a deeply offensive and heinous choice to make when you have family. It is a selfish evil vile disgusting choice. Adjectives fail to describe the complete contempt I have for people who do this.

Yes she was a victim of bullying, assault and name calling. Not justifying any of that. But none of that gives her pass for selfishly ending her own life and putting her family through hell.

[Nessus]

Go fuck yourself, Lewk.

[Lewkowski]

So what part do you disagree with?

Do you disagree that suicide is a personal choice?

Do you disagree that her actions brought untold amounts of pain to her parents?

[Nessus]

Suicide is a deeply offensive and heinous choice to make when you have family. It is a selfish evil vile disgusting choice. Adjectives fail to describe the complete contempt I have for people who do this.

This.

I do not pretend to speak for the other person frequenting this forum whom I know to have contemplated if not attempted suicide, but your cavalier attitude about it all, compounded with this sick, Christian guilt-tripping and petty moralizing sickens me. It offends me personally, as well, which is why I instructed you to sodomize yourself, preferably with a pineapple.

Suicide does have ramifications on the relatives, certainly, but your attitude and words are certainly unhelpful, and I'd daresay contributing to the problem. Of course, knowing you, you have no interest in actually trying to understand the problem, you just desire to claim the moral high ground and from there on assault your political opponents.

[Lewkowski]

I do not pretend to speak for the other person frequenting this forum whom I know to have contemplated if not attempted suicide, but your cavalier attitude about it all, compounded with this sick, Christian guilt-tripping and petty moralizing sickens me.

Cavalier attitude? If you believe in any sort of morality - suicide is incredibly evil. Unless you are utterly alone in the world and have no one who cares about you - someone will be REALLY hurt. If you don't believe in morality then why would my attitude towards suicide sicken you?

Suicide does have ramifications on the relatives, certainly, but your attitude and words are certainly unhelpful, and I'd daresay contributing to the problem.

Suicide should be frowned on by society (and generally is). People who justify suicide or somehow pretend its "OK" are the ones who would cause more suicides to occur.

Of course, knowing you, you have no interest in actually trying to understand the problem, you just desire to claim the moral high ground and from there on assault your political opponents.

I hardly think suicide is a political issue. (Putting euthanasia aside, which is quite different then someone in the prime of their life offing themselves)

[Nessus]

Go fuck yourself, Lewk.

[Nessus]

Cavalier attitude? If you believe in any sort of morality - suicide is incredibly evil.

False dichotomy, speaking from false authority

Unless you are utterly alone in the world and have no one who cares about you - someone will be REALLY hurt. If you don't believe in morality then why would my attitude towards suicide sicken you?

False dichotomy, false authority

Suicide should be frowned on by society (and generally is). People who justify suicide or somehow pretend its "OK" are the ones who would cause more suicides to occur.

Citation needed, stereotyping, false dichotomy

I hardly think suicide is a political issue. (Putting euthanasia aside, which is quite different then someone in the prime of their life offing themselves)

Inability to comprehend what was posted

[GGT]

Let's ask Lewk if he thinks insurance should cover therapy with a therapist, MSW, psychologist, or psychiatrist. Since he's all about the insurance industry dictating what's a valid or important human need.

[CitizenCain]

<blah>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you in support of that cyber-bullying legislative bullshit when Lori Drew killed herself? Or, at least, in favor of crucifying whatever bitch it was that "drover her to it?"

I refer of course, to the old ACC days... which I'll be ultra-pissed if I have to sift through to confirm my beliefs. I could be wrong, as I occasionally am after a 12 pack , but I seem to recall you were in favor of some form of public lynching for the fat bitch who caused it all.

And I only mention it because it's relevant... or will become relevant... to the impending discussion.

Cavalier attitude? If you believe in any sort of morality - suicide is incredibly evil.

I believe in any sort of morality and disagree with you. Please support your position with something resembling a cogent argument.

Unless you are utterly alone in the world and have no one who cares about you - someone will be REALLY hurt.

The same could be said of me using my $4500 to buy (and assemble) my awesome custom PC rig. That same money could have fed a family of 17 for a year in whothefuckcares, Africa (among other places).

If you don't believe in morality then why would my attitude towards suicide sicken you?

I won't speak for Nessie, but speaking for myself, if we truly are "free," then our lives are our own. Not the government's, not our friends' and not our family's. And that includes the decision to continue living our lives... or to end our lives.

Suicide should be frowned on by society (and generally is). People who justify suicide or somehow pretend its "OK" are the ones who would cause more suicides to occur.

So? Everyone dies, you know. Ultimately, the result is the same - at some point, death catches up with us. What's so horribly wrong about conceding defeat early?

Ihardly think suicide is a political issue. (Putting euthanasia aside, which is quite different then someone in the prime of their life offing themselves)

So... the gospel according to Lewk says that it's OK to end your life if you're in terminal pain... but it's not OK to end your life if you feel like you're in terminal pain.

An outstandingly clear position you've carved out for yourself there.

[GGT]

The same could be said of me using my $4500 to buy (and assemble) my awesome custom PC rig. That same money could have fed a family of 17 for a year in whothefuckcares, Africa (among other places).

yep, this sounds like the real Cain.

psst fix your tags

[Ziggy Stardust]

Lewk in his protective little bubble, doesn't understand why people take their own live, and acts like it's a well-thought out reasoned choice they make. Clueless but still spilling over with opinion.

What about the grief and horror her family is going through? Did she bother thinking about that?

Utterly clueless.

Suicide is a deeply offensive and heinous choice to make when you have family. It is a selfish evil vile disgusting choice. Adjectives fail to describe the complete contempt I have for people who do this.

Yeah, I'm gasping for adjectives as well at this comment.

People who justify suicide

The use of the word "justify". Really. Boggles the mind.

If you don't believe in morality then why would my attitude towards suicide sicken you?

Because what you post clearly shows you have never been around suicide cases. You have no consideration about the emotions which are present when someone decides they want to end their life. You are completely in the dark with regard to what would make someone end his or her life. But you are oh so quick to judge them based on that lack of understanding.

And you fail to grasp that there might be people here who have lost friends who committed suicide and you judging them to be morally evil without knowing anything might rub them (me) the wrong way.

I second the motion on the floor that you really should go fuck yourself

[GGT]

Lewk doesn't comprehend mental illness. He thinks suicidal thoughts have no honor, not like the warriors of our past. Wars used to be fought by the whites of the eyes, men charging toward one another, hand to hand combat, loading muskets or using knives. Now that was suicide, in hindsight. Armies joined up willingly, to fight and die for something bigger than their own pain. But they were still on suicide missions.

Once the fog subsided, and warriors came home with mental battle wounds, or missing limbs and eyes and brain parts, we embarked on the surgical strike warfare. Highly skilled and trained soldiers could be engage in combat, targeting the enemy, and return home unscathed. Drones and tanks. Kevlar and helmets. Only others will get hurt, maimed or killed. Right?

But we've learned the human brain is vulnerable. Some can take a lot, some see assault everywhere, even at home. Some never have to go to war, but will battle their own brain. Society likes to say one is better than the other, that one is a hero and the other is a coward, but it's all a suicide mission in the brain. Nobody comes away unscathed.

[GGT]

So yeah, it's late there are only a couple of people here. Ziggy and Wraith? But let me broach the topic and ask.......what IS mental illness and what IS suicide?

In a strange way it makes sense for young tormented people to end their own pain, but it does not make sense that young people sign up for war, to create more pain for themselves or others. Which is sicker, and why have we decided to label shame on the one, but pin medals of honor on the other?

[Hazir]

Well I have zero sympathy for people who have killed themselves. I think they're just stupid fucks, who deserve no amount of defense. It becomes even sillier when atheists do so; as if being turned into dirt in the ground is better than being alive. If life has no bigger meaning then it should be imperative to make it as good and as long lasting as you can.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well I have zero sympathy for armchair fuckos who condemn those who killed themselves by using cool-headed rationality and thus showing how completely clueless they are with regard to the mindset of those who do commit suicide.

I think they're just stupid fucks.

[GGT]

I don't think any suicide wanted your expressed sympathy. They don't want sympathy at all. They just want to end their misery and can't see any other way. Why can't others see that?

[Hazir]

I don't think any suicide wanted your expressed sympathy. They don't want sympathy at all. They just want to end their misery and can't see any other way. Why can't others see that?

Because no matter how you look at it, it's stupid. It's very difficult to understand why people willingly do extremely stupid things.

[Hazir]

Well I have zero sympathy for armchair fuckos who condemn those who killed themselves by using cool-headed rationality and thus showing how completely clueless they are with regard to the mindset of those who do commit suicide.

I think they're just stupid fucks.

It wasn't clear that I was talking about Nessus's stupid defense of suicide?

[Ziggy Stardust]

No. Sorry if I missed the obvious and tantrummed for nothing. I think I better butt out of this thread all together.

[Nessus]

It wasn't clear that I was talking about Nessus's stupid defense of suicide?

If we disregard the inanity of your original argument and just go at it with face value, then yes, sometimes death is preferable to life, even for an atheist. That your egomania keeps you from seeing that does not make it stupid.

[Hazir]

If we disregard the inanity of your original argument and just go at it with face value, then yes, sometimes death is preferable to life, even for an atheist. That your egomania keeps you from seeing that does not make it stupid.

Give me one valid example where a physical healthy person is better off dead. Just one, and keep in mind that Camus and his idiocy doesn't really cut it for me.

[Nessus]

Give me one valid example where a physical healthy person is better off dead. Just one, and keep in mind that Camus and his idiocy doesn't really cut it for me.

*shrug* If you've set yourself up as the Life Panel, fit to judge the minds of others yet wholly unable to experience empathy, I don't really see how any kind of examples from me would help the situation. You've already made your decision and are just asking me to make strawmen for you to burn down.

[Hazir]

I take it's that's a cop out then ?

[Nessus]

It's a cop out from a "conversation" with an impenetrable ego. If moralizing about this makes you feel like a better person, good for you.

[Hazir]

It's a cop out from a "conversation" with an impenetrable ego. If moralizing about this makes you feel like a better person, good for you.

Hey, I'm not the one cheering on people who are offing themselves. At least Gigi understands that what these people need is help living rather than tips on how to die.

[Nessus]

Hey, I'm not the one cheering on people who are offing themselves. At least Gigi understands that what these people need is help living rather than tips on how to die.

So the problem isn't your bloated sense of self-importance, you just fail at reading comprehension? At any rate, you're being just as obtuse and inflammatory as Lewkie there. Keep on fighting the good fight, those windmills won't tilt on their own!

[Hazir]

So the problem isn't your bloated sense of self-importance, you just fail at reading comprehension? At any rate, you're being just as obtuse and inflammatory as Lewkie there. Keep on fighting the good fight, those windmills won't tilt on their own!

So we're really just talking about you dear? Don't assume I didn't already know it.

[Nessus]

So we're really just talking about you dear? Don't assume I didn't already know it.

Oh, going under the belt! How original. If you want to look smart and do two-penny psychoanalysis on me, go on ahead, but I fail to see what that has to do with "giving tips on how to die" or how suicide is for stupids.

[GGT]

Because no matter how you look at it, it's stupid. It's very difficult to understand why people willingly do extremely stupid things.

It wasn't clear that I was talking about Nessus's stupid defense of suicide?

No, you were not clear. Suicidal people don't engage in it "willingly". It is, in fact, against their will to stay alive. At some level, they want to stay alive but are too ill to think it through, because living is too painful. Living means continuing the pain they want to kill. That's why others don't understand, and if they bury a loved one who committed suicide, it's the toughest thing to grapple.

I've been close to suicide, very depressed, in a horrible state. I knew my death would hurt my children, but the thoughts and pains were so strong...that I'd be better dead, that my family would be better without me, that my dysfunctions should just be buried, everyone else would cope and deal after I was gone, but I just couldn't cope and deal any more. Life was killing me. I thought my death might make it better for my loved ones to move on. Their life would be easier without me. They'd miss me, but my absence was better than my presence.

That's what mental illness looks like, that's how it feels. I still fight that negative thinking in my head, it's a daily struggle, and I need a lot of help. Now I take meds and have a therapist, but there are still days when I wish death would just take me, because I am so exhausted at finding ways to stay alive.

For anyone who doesn't understand and can't relate, try this: for every moment of joy or happiness you feel during your day, imagine those were moments of despair and pain. Waking is a chore, because you know you'll hurt, and no one will understand. You put on your clothes, we put on a mask. We walk around like zombies, not knowing what's real or imagined, but the pain is so very real......it would be like you spending 24 hours in a scratchy suit that you can't take off. You can't take it off, you just have to wear it all the time, and get used to it. Can you get used to it?

It might make no sense, but it doesn't make it less real.

(This is about mental illness, not people who are terminally ill and want to hasten death).

[Nessus]

Hush, you're ruining Hazir's perfectly good high horse