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Thread: Anyone care to reassure...

  1. #1

    Default Anyone care to reassure...

    I believe this is the guy to worry about. I would not be surprised if the Muslim ban, and all the other useless outrageous bullshit Trump has been doing, is smoke screen to keep people from talking about this guy's increasing power. No doubt he's already figuring out how to keep power after Trump's term(s) are to legally end. Let's have it Fuzzy, Wiggin, poo-poo all this please. Bring me down.

    Trump Just Quietly Replaced Our Nation’s Top Military Advisors With Steve Bannon
    by Eric Pfeiffer

    Donald Trump’s executive order targeting refugees and immigrants may have only been the second most disastrous decision he made this weekend.

    On Saturday, Trump quietly demoted the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Director of National Intelligence from his National Security Council and replaced them with his controversial personal advisor, Steve Bannon. The JCS and DNI are the two leading adivsory positions on the council, making their demotion much, much more than symbolic.

    The decision means the nation’s most vital national security decisions will now be filtered through a political appointee with ties to the Alt Right movement and who just a few months ago was running a highly partisan news web site. The Joint Chiefs of Staff, who have always sat in on NSC briefings, will now only attend meetings that directly involve, "issues pertaining to their responsibilities and expertise are to be discussed," according to Trump’s order.

    The move sent shockwaves through the intelligence community and was blasted by prominent figures including Sen. John McCain and former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, both Republicans.

    “I am worried about the National Security Council. Who are the members of it and who are the permanent members?” McCain said in an interview with CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday. “The appointment of Mr. Bannon is something which is a radical departure from any National Security Council in history."

    “I think pushing them out of the National Security Council meetings, except when their specific issues are at stake, is a big mistake," Gates added in an interview with ABC’s “This Week” on Sunday. "I think that they both bring a perspective and judgment and experience to bear that every president, whether they like it or not, finds useful."

    The shocking decision further aggravates public and private tensions between Trump and the intelligence community. As Gates noted, it’s not unusual for members to be added to the NSC, but taking away two central voices, particularly the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is truly unprecedented and will limit the input of experienced voices advising Trump as he charts the nation’s course on international affairs.

    Even more disturbing is that while much of the world rightfully focuses on Trump’s attempts to bar refugees and legal immigrants from entering the U.S., very little attention is being paid to the NSC move. It’s understandable on the surface, as the very human individual faces of refugees makes for a more emotionally compelling narrative than the complex rigors of federal bureaucracy. But however inflammatory, the refugee issue is likely to quickly sort itself out through court injunctions and a massive, growing public outcry. Meanwhile, there is almost nothing anyone can do about Trump’s decision to limit, and heavily skew, the level of expertise he allows to filter through the NSC.

    And because those are the decisions that so often create refugees, rather than simply deciding where they can and can’t go, it should be all the more upsetting to people paying attention to how this new administration’s policies are already having an impact around the globe.
    https://www.good.is/articles/trump-n...hiefs-of-staff
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  2. #2
    Anyone care to reassure...
    No. America is screwed. Prepare for the black iron millennium.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  3. #3
    Maybe this is fake news and it didn't really happen...
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  4. #4
    Maybe you're fake news and didn't really happen.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  5. #5
    I'm not entirely sure how legal this move was. Their positions on the NSC are by statute rather than by the grace of the douchebag-in-chief.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  6. #6
    Laws are just words on a page. They have no force if everyone's just prepared to ignore them.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  7. #7
    Nope, it's real. NYT:

    Bannon Seizes a Security Role From Generals

    WASHINGTON — The whirlwind first week of Donald J. Trump’s presidency had all the bravura hallmarks of a Stephen K. Bannon production.

    It started with the doom-hued inauguration homily to “American carnage” in United States cities co-written by Mr. Bannon, followed a few days later by his “shut up” message to the news media. The week culminated with a blizzard of executive orders, mostly hatched by Mr. Bannon’s team and the White House policy adviser, Stephen Miller, aimed at disorienting the “enemy,” fulfilling campaign promises and distracting attention from Mr. Trump’s less than flawless debut.

    But the defining moment for Mr. Bannon came Saturday night in the form of an executive order giving the rumpled right-wing agitator a full seat on the “principals committee” of the National Security Council — while downgrading the roles of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the director of national intelligence, who will now attend only when the council is considering issues in their direct areas of responsibilities. It is a startling elevation of a political adviser, to a status alongside the secretaries of state and defense, and over the president’s top military and intelligence advisers.

    In theory, the move put Mr. Bannon, a former Navy surface warfare officer, admiral’s aide, investment banker, Hollywood producer and Breitbart News firebrand, on the same level as his friend, Michael T. Flynn, the national security adviser, a former Pentagon intelligence chief who was Mr. Trump’s top adviser on national security issues before a series of missteps reduced his influence.


    Trump Strategist Stephen Bannon Says Media Should ‘Keep Its Mouth Shut’ JAN. 26, 2017


    But in terms of real influence, Mr. Bannon looms above almost everyone except the president’s son-in-law, Jared D. Kushner, in the Trumpian pecking order, according to interviews with two dozen Trump insiders and current and former national security officials. The move involving Mr. Bannon, as well as the boost in status to the White House homeland security adviser, Thomas P. Bossert, and Mr. Trump’s relationships with cabinet appointees like Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, have essentially layered over Mr. Flynn.

    Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary, said Mr. Bannon — whose Breitbart website was a magnet for white nationalists, antiglobalists and conspiracy theorists — always planned to participate in national security. Mr. Flynn welcomed his participation, Mr. Spicer said, but the general “led the reorganization of the N.S.C.” in order to streamline an antiquated and bloated bureaucracy.

    Former White House officials in both parties were shocked by the move.

    “The last place you want to put somebody who worries about politics is in a room where they’re talking about national security,” said Leon E. Panetta, a former White House chief of staff, defense secretary and C.I.A. director in two Democratic administrations.

    “I’ve never seen that happen, and it shouldn’t happen. It’s not like he has broad experience in foreign policy and national security issues. He doesn’t. His primary role is to control or guide the president’s conscience based on his campaign promises. That’s not what the National Security Council is supposed to be about.”

    That opinion was shared by President George W. Bush’s last chief of staff, Josh Bolten, who barred Karl Rove, Mr. Bush’s political adviser, from N.S.C. meetings. A president’s decisions made with those advisers, he told a conference audience in September, “involve life and death for the people in uniform” and should “not be tainted by any political decisions.”

    Susan E. Rice, President Barack Obama’s last national security adviser, called the arrangement “stone cold crazy” in a tweet posted Sunday.

    Mr. Spicer said the language the Trump White House used in its N.S.C. executive order is, with the exception of Mr. Bannon’s position — which was created during the transition — almost identical in content to one the Bush administration drafted in 2001. And Mr. Obama’s top political operative, David Axelrod, sat in on some N.S.C. meetings, he added.

    There were key differences. Mr. Axelrod never served as a permanent member as Mr. Bannon will now, though he sat in on some critical meetings, especially as Mr. Obama debated strategy in Afghanistan and Pakistan. “It’s a profound shift,” Mr. Axelrod said. “I don’t know what his bona fides are to be the principal foreign policy adviser to the president.”

    But Mr. Bannon’s elevation does not merely reflect his growing influence on national security. It is emblematic of Mr. Trump’s trust on a range of political and ideological issues.

    During the campaign, the sly and provocative Mr. Bannon played a paradoxical role — calming the easily agitated candidate during his frequent rough patches and egging him on when he felt Mr. Trump needed to fire up the white working-class base. The president respects Mr. Bannon because he is independently wealthy and therefore does not need the job, and both men ascribe to a shoot-the-prisoners credo when put on the defensive, according to the former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski.

    Mr. Bannon is a deft operator within the White House, and he has been praised by Republicans who view him skeptically as the most knowledgeable on policy around the president. But his stated preference for blowing things up — as opposed to putting them back together — may not translate to his new role.

    The hasty drafting of the immigration order, and its scattershot execution, brought a measure of Mr. Bannon’s chaotic and hyperaggressive political style to the more predictable administration of the federal government. Within hours of the edict, airport customs and border agents were detaining or blocking dozens of migrant families, some of whom had permanent resident status, until John F. Kelly, the new homeland security secretary, intervened.

    Mr. Kelly’s department had suggested green card holders be exempted from the order, but Mr. Bannon and Mr. Miller, a hard-liner on immigration, overruled him, according to two American officials.

    Mr. Priebus, speaking on NBC’s “Meet the Press” on Sunday, indicated a softening of the stance, saying the order would not block “green card holders moving forward” — but said anyone seeking to enter the country from the listed countries would be subjected to tighter scrutiny.

    People close to Mr. Bannon said he is not accumulating power for power’s sake, but is instead helping to fill a staff leadership vacuum created, in part, by Mr. Flynn’s stumbling performance as national security adviser.

    Mr. Flynn still communicates with Mr. Trump frequently, and his staff has been assembling a version of the Presidential Daily Briefing for Mr. Trump, truncated but comprehensive, to be the president’s main source of national security information. During the campaign, he often had unfettered access to the candidate, who appreciated his brash style and contempt for Hillary Clinton, but during the transition, Mr. Flynn privately complained about having to share face time with others.

    Mr. Flynn “has the full confidence of the president and his team,” Hope Hicks, a spokeswoman for Mr. Trump, said in an email. Emails and phone calls to Mr. Flynn and his top aide were not returned.

    A president who likes generals and abhors political correctness, Mr. Trump found in Mr. Flynn — who joined Trump backers in an anti-Clinton “lock her up!” chant during the campaign — perhaps the most politically incorrect general this side of his hero, Gen. George S. Patton.

    But Mr. Flynn, a lifelong Democrat sacked as head of the Pentagon’s intelligence arm after clashing with Obama administration officials in 2014, has gotten on the nerves of Mr. Trump and other administration officials because of his sometimes overbearing demeanor, and has further diminished his internal standing by presiding over a chaotic and opaque N.S.C. transition process that prioritized the hiring of military officials over civilian experts recommended to him by his own team.

    Mr. Flynn’s penchant for talking too much was on display on Friday in a meeting with Theresa May, the British prime minister, according to two people with direct knowledge of the events.

    When Mrs. May said that she understood wanting a dialogue with Mr. Putin but stressed the need to be careful, Mr. Trump asked Mr. Flynn when the two were scheduled to speak.

    Mr. Flynn replied it was Saturday — he had delayed it to fit in Mrs. May’s meeting for “protocol” as a United States ally, adding at length that Mr. Putin was impatient to chat.

    Mr. Trump, the person said, appeared irritated by the response.

    Still, the episode that did the most damage to the Trump-Flynn relationship occurred in early December when Mr. Flynn’s son, also named Michael, unleashed a series of tweets pushing a discredited conspiracy theory that Clinton associates had run a child sex-slave ring out of a Washington pizza restaurant.

    Mr. Trump told his staff to get rid of the younger Mr. Flynn, who had been hired by his father to help during the transition. But Mr. Trump did so reluctantly because of his loyalty during the campaign, when dozens of former military officials were dismissing Mr. Trump as too unstable to command.

    “I want him fired immediately,” Mr. Trump said in a muted rendition of his “You’re fired!” line in “The Apprentice,” according to two people with knowledge of the interaction.

    That has not stopped the general’s son from spouting off: On Saturday, at a time when Trump surrogates were pushing back on the idea that the executive order did not discriminate against any religion, the younger Mr. Flynn tweeted his approval of the policy, adding “#MuslimBan.” The tweet was subsequently deleted; his entire account disappeared later in the day.

    Still, the national security adviser has also continued to dabble in the kind of bomb-throwing behavior that concerns Mr. Trump’s allies, such as planning to attend an anti-Clinton “Deploraball” event at the time of the inauguration. He was urged to skip it by Trump allies, and ultimately agreed.

    Both Mr. Trump and Mr. Bannon still regard Mr. Flynn as an asset. “In the room and out of the room, Steve Bannon is General Flynn’s biggest defender,” said Kellyanne Conway, another top adviser to the president.

    But it is unclear when the maneuvers to reduce Mr. Flynn’s role began. Two Obama administration officials said Trump transition officials inquired about expanded national security roles for Mr. Bannon and Mr. Kushner at the earliest stages of the transition in November — before the younger Mr. Flynn became a liability — but after Mr. Flynn had begun to chafe on the nerves of his colleagues on the team.

    Mr. Flynn’s reputation has raised questions among some in the cabinet. Two weeks ago, both men held a meeting with Rex W. Tillerson, Mr. Trump’s pick to run the State Department, Mr. Mattis and Mike Pompeo, now the C.I.A. director, to discuss coordination — Mr. Flynn was invited but did not attend.

    Part of the meeting was devoted to discussing concerns about Mr. Flynn, according to an official with knowledge of it.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Maybe you're fake news and didn't really happen.
    Are you drunk?
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  9. #9
    I don't partake.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Laws are just words on a page. They have no force if everyone's just prepared to ignore them.
    turn back steely, turn back from the light
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    I believe this is the guy to worry about. I would not be surprised if the Muslim ban, and all the other useless outrageous bullshit Trump has been doing, is smoke screen to keep people from talking about this guy's increasing power. No doubt he's already figuring out how to keep power after Trump's term(s) are to legally end. Let's have it Fuzzy, Wiggin, poo-poo all this please. Bring me down.



    https://www.good.is/articles/trump-n...hiefs-of-staff
    The move is concerning, yes, but I draw the line at unfounded speculation about plans for an unconstitutional bid for power; there is zero evidence whatsoever that this is in the offing and the appointment of Bannon to the NSC is hardly helpful for such a plan.

    I'm less concerned about the addition of Bannon than the subtraction of the Joint Chiefs and DNI. It doesn't really make sense and I have to wonder what the rationale is. Them being excluded from the 'principals' meetings unless things 'directly pertain to their responsibilities' is somewhat silly - I would imagine that nearly every topic discussed by the NSC directly pertains to the military and intelligence apparatus of this country. I have yet to see someone articulate a convincing explanation, conspiratorial or otherwise, to justify the move.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I'm not entirely sure how legal this move was. Their positions on the NSC are by statute rather than by the grace of the douchebag-in-chief.
    The NSC serves the president. He can appoint or remove anyone he wants.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  13. #13
    If the twitter account that Steely* shared elsewhere is to be believed, its extremely alarming how much influence Bannon has. But we won't really know how bad the white house has gotten until the national guard gets rolled out against protesters.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 01-30-2017 at 04:11 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    But we won't really know how bad the white house has gotten until the national guard gets rolled out against protesters.
    Look for allegations against/ FBI investigations of reporters working for mainstream news media. Prompted by something like a wikileaks-style info dump and/or "intelligence" surfacing with allegations that certain reporters/ news organizations have been financed by/ working with foreign governments - China, Iran, N. Korea - to influence the American public. Also, expect a war - it will be no problem to ramp up Syria or Afghanistan.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    ...but I draw the line at unfounded speculation about plans for an unconstitutional bid for power; there is zero evidence whatsoever that this is in the offing and the appointment of Bannon to the NSC is hardly helpful for such a plan...
    Yes, of course. Just freaking out a little and attributing imaginary very bad acts to a real very bad actor. He has way too much on his plate, and 4 years ahead of him, to be thinking about that sort of problem already anyway.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  16. #16
    Utterly bonkers and inexplicable to remove the Joint Chiefs from the NSC. What's the point of the NSC without them?

    Bring in an advisor sure whatever, bit iffy but OK. But to replace the Joint Chiefs with Grima Wormtongue alone ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #17
    They're still invited when issues relevant to them are discussed. What this does show is that Bannon has the president's ear and doesn't want that power diluted.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  18. #18
    As I said, Grima Wormtongue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    turn back steely, turn back from the light
    I was quite serious; all the protections and checks and balances of the constitution don't mean a thing if no one is arsed to actually enforce them.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  20. #20
    Didn't the Trail of Tears prove that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #21
    The demise of the Roman Republic proved that, but I felt it worth reiterating
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    The move is concerning, yes, but I draw the line at unfounded speculation about plans for an unconstitutional bid for power; there is zero evidence whatsoever that this is in the offing and the appointment of Bannon to the NSC is hardly helpful for such a plan.

    I'm less concerned about the addition of Bannon than the subtraction of the Joint Chiefs and DNI. It doesn't really make sense and I have to wonder what the rationale is. Them being excluded from the 'principals' meetings unless things 'directly pertain to their responsibilities' is somewhat silly - I would imagine that nearly every topic discussed by the NSC directly pertains to the military and intelligence apparatus of this country. I have yet to see someone articulate a convincing explanation, conspiratorial or otherwise, to justify the move.
    This is where I am. I can maybe see the DNI, but you NEED someone from the Joint Chiefs there all the time. Just having a person with military experience, like Flynn, is not good enough, you need not just military expertise but absolutely current managing knowledge. Bannon being on there is just an expression of Trump's lack of experience. He needs a permanent member who is one of his politicos because he isn't one himself.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  23. #23
    Does it matter who's there when Trump doesn't listen to anyone?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  24. #24
    He's listening. The most likely reason Trump could never articulate anything but a vague idea of a government policy is because he doesn't know anything about government policy and probably doesn't give a shit. He's probably just signing the orders placed in front of him and tweeting out dumb-assery. Which suits Bannon just fine -- like a magician's illusion, as long as the media is freaking about the whirlwind of dumb shit, it's missing or glossing over the really scary stuff.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    If the twitter account that Steely* shared elsewhere is to be believed, its extremely alarming how much influence Bannon has. But we won't really know how bad the white house has gotten until the national guard gets rolled out against protesters.
    Starting to doubt the legitimacy of it - been looking through it, doesn't seem to have broken any story before it was available through other sources plus things on there that never materialized, like Trump ordering national guard against protesters, Spicer accusing protesters of compromising national security. Crucially, it didn't even hint about the muslim ban until the story broke in the mainstream press.

    Others should feel free to take a look over it and see if they can come up with anything.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    12,462
    The scary implication of it all is that there is system to the madness; I know one country isn't the other, and I still consider the rule of law stronger in the US than in Turkey, but a diet of this level bullshit for over a decade has made Turkey ready to vote in a dictatorship.
    Congratulations America

  27. #27
    Trial Balloon for a Coup?

    relevant article about the past ~48 hours.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  28. #28
    "This is as serious as it can possibly get: all of the arguments about whether order X or Y is unconstitutional mean nothing if elements of the government are executing them and the courts are being ignored."

    As I said.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  29. #29
    Ultimately, it falls to Congress to stop Trump. The courts have no enforcement powers unless backed by one of the other branches. And the GOP-controlled Congress has showed no inclination to oppose Trump. The best we can hope for in the short term is that judges keep on embarrassing Trump, thereby providing nervous GOP congressmen some protection if they ever decide to turn on Trump.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  30. #30
    Congress is waiting on their tax cuts, maybe something concerning gay rights or abortion, then everyone will see how much more they like Pence over Trump.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

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