SEE U IN COURT
SEE U IN COURT
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
No Randy, you know it's not. No deal on the divorce means that you are going to pay by other means.Originally Posted by RandBlade
Congratulations America
No deal maybe, but agreeing a deal doesn't mean we give you your opening demands.
You've never negotiated anything in your life have you? Hope you've never gone to haggle while you're in Turkey - you know you're not supposed to accept their opening bid don't you?
Sometimes there are prerequisites to a negotiation that preclude negotiations until they are met/agreed to. I believe that the 60bn number will be revised downwards but if the UK signals that it has no intention of paying what the EU believes it owes, or tries to make payment conditional on concessions that should have nothing to do with the UK fulfilling its commitments, it may kill negotiations before they even start. I think that is unlikely but it is one possible scenario.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I agree with all of that, though the main thing the UK clearly owes is pensions and that is estimated at under €10bn. Many of the more expensive "commitments" are more debatable.
On the topic of pensions it is convoluted and complicated to figure how precisely how much pension contributions are owed (and would leave the EU exposed to paying to British pensioners for decades in the future) - I suspect the simplest and most easily agreeable solution is for the UK to agree to take on the expense of all British citizens EU pensions.
Like the others didn't work on the basis of a mandate given by you? Doesn't fly buddy.
€60bn sounds just about right as a settlement of outstanding obligations. Once you've committed to it, we may start talks about a future relationship, or your WTO tariffs if we decide you've not been accommodating enough. Brexit is Brexit and we're going to have incredible fun with it.
Last edited by Hazir; 02-28-2017 at 12:30 AM.
Congratulations America
One of the big lies of the Brexiteers was about extra money for the NHS. In Brexitania their duped voters will soon find out there not only is no extra money but a totally unnecessary shortage of care givers.
Congratulations America
It's you guys who are losing your second biggest net payer into your budget. We're the ones being liberated from paying all that into your budget. The extra money is there.
Laughing Out Loud.
Congratulations America
Laughing all the way to the bank.
You'll have enough time to count all your worthless pounds waiting in line for the few doctors still employed by your NHS.
Congratulations America
And it shall come to pass that what men made shall be shattered, and the Brexiteers shall lie across the Pattern of the Age, and the Russian One shall once more lay his hand upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men quail as the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth. Neither shall anything stand nor abide...
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Freestyling Revelations?
Congratulations America
Meanwhile in the real world the number of doctors employed by the NHS is at an all-time high.
You have an aging population and fewer physicians relative to population size than almost all other EU countries. 10% of your physicians are immigrants from the EU. A much larger proportion of your physicians are from non-EU countries, and you will perhaps be able to compensate for any shortfall brought on by Brexit as well as high retirement rates, but, in the intervening years, things are likely to be painful. While you're right that "the number of doctors employed by the NHS is at an all-time high" you have fairly few physicians in relative terms and that number obviously also includes physicians from the EU.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I fail to see how physicians from the EU are remotely relevant. Not a single person that I know of is proposing to ban EU physicians. As you adroitly mentioned we have a lot of non-EU physicians so even if EU citizens are treated the same as non-EU ones in the future there is no reason to think we wouldn't have EU physicians anymore.
Our number of doctors is not only at an all-time high but funding for the NHS is increasing every year of this Parliament and by the end of Parliament the number of doctors forecast to be employed is going to be even more than now.
There is every reason to think that Brexit may have a significant impact on the NHS's access to EU physicians. Currently, it's comparatively easy for EU physicians to move to the UK to practice medicine. If it becomes more difficult--eg. due to restrictions on movement for physicians and their families, or due to changes in certification requirements--you will get fewer EU physicians over time and a number will choose--or be forced--to leave. This may prove to be a boon for other developed EU nations in dire need of physicians but it will hurt the NHS for several years. For my part, I've been forced to look to New Zealand for a more realistic Plan B in the event of a Russian invasion.
These are meaningless pseudo-statistics. The question isn't whether or not the absolute number of physicians is at an "all-time high" but rather whether or not you have enough physicians and other healthcare staff/resources to adequately meet your population's needs. It's also irrelevant that the funding is increasing every year (and I might add here that your govt doesn't seem inclined to deliver on those promises either). The cost of healthcare is also increasing every year, so the question is whether or not the funding is sufficient to meet the needs of your population. The answer to both those questions is: it's doubtful. This is true all over the EU but esp. in the UK. The NHS's funding has not even come close to keeping up with increased costs and increased demand for years now. This chronic under-funding has had a significant quantifiable negative impact on the UK's healthcare services. Anyone who pretends otherwise is a damn' fool.Our number of doctors is not only at an all-time high but funding for the NHS is increasing every year of this Parliament and by the end of Parliament the number of doctors forecast to be employed is going to be even more than now.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Saying something "may" happen is the preserve of the disingenuous. Yes it may happen, yes an asteroid may hit the Earth and wipe out humanity, yes Trump may get into a hissy fit and launch a nuclear strike. I'd be more worried about the latter than what you said "may" happen. It is in our interests to make it stay easy for EU doctors to move to the UK so we will do so.
As for whether supply meets demand, that is meaningless. Demand for healthcare is infinite. Life expectancy in the UK in the seventies (pre-Thatcher) was below that of in the USA for comparison, it is today years longer than that in the USA and has risen at a steady and rising rate. It is comparable to many other European nations, just below that in France and ahead of Germany.
It's more likely than other things you've felt are likely enough to merit consideration such as anti-Trump protesters being paid by Clinton. Regardless of what is or is not in your best interests, Brexit will entail greater difficulties wrt movement between the EU and the UK.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and let you first explain what on earth you think the UK's life expectancy can say in support of your position in this discussion.As for whether supply meets demand, that is meaningless. Demand for healthcare is infinite. Life expectancy in the UK in the seventies (pre-Thatcher) was below that of in the USA for comparison, it is today years longer than that in the USA and has risen at a steady and rising rate. It is comparable to many other European nations, just below that in France and ahead of Germany.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
That's just not true, I never said I thought anti-Trump protesters were being paid by Clinton. Unlikely to be considerably so for the skilled where visas will be available if they are even made necessary at all.
Mortality can't be used as a metric since mortality in the long-run has to be 100%. Life expectancy is a reasonable proxy for measuring the quality of healthcare. Being near the top of global rankings for life expectancy with rising life expectancy shows a healthcare system that is working.I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and let you first explain what on earth you think the UK's life expectancy can say in support of your position in this discussion.
Of course the better the healthcare system works, the more demand it puts on itself as those living longer have longer to suffer from age-related illnesses like dementia etc
We shouldn t be surprised at Randblade inability to see reality; he's being informed by a press that actually sometimes makes me wonder if there isn't such a thing as the 'lying media'.
Recently I read a report telling me The Netherlands were preparing to leave the eurozone. Reality was that research was ordered to map out the risks of the eurozone as it is today in order to get a clearer picture of what is needed to strengthen it. Next one would be the reaction to yesterday's white paper on the EU-27. In the British press presented as if the EU was going to become 'just a FTA' where it is obvious that this option is in the white paper just to have a full range of options. Thus forcing those governments that claim to be in favor of it out of the closet.
Congratulations America
You read some weird shit and never bother to link to any of it, I've never said the Netherlands is preparing to leave the Eurozone. Nor that the EU was going to become "just a FTA" [even though that would have been ideal and we'd have stayed in then]/
Yet the NHS continues to deteriorate further and further into an increasingly serious crisis.
Meanwhile, the Lords were not amused by May's antics
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Because we are living longer lives.
Crisis in the NHS is a self-fulfilling prophecy, the more successful it is the longer we live, the longer we live the more years of frailty, heart disease, dementia and other old-age symptoms we have at the end of our lives. Healthcare demand will always be infinite as there is no way to defeat mortality we can only ever postpone it. If we were dropping dead at 65 then there would be far less stress on the NHS and on pensions but I don't think that'd be a good thing.
Don't worry the unelected chamber's lunacy will be overturned.Meanwhile, the Lords were not amused by May's antics
The reality of course is that only the lives of EU citizens living in the UK are affected by this whole Brexit mess for no other reason than that the UK rather tramples on acquired rights than assume some responsibility for the administration of who is entitled. And now you have the audacity to make you behave in a halfway decent way is a major concession.
Given the bad faith being all over your Brexitanian ideas I have zero hope for this ending in anything else than a trade war.
Congratulations America
The UK offered a reciprocal early deal to guarantee the acquired rights of EU citizens already in the UK, along with UK citizens already in the EU - and was rebuked that there must be no pre-negotiations.
So it is the EU wanting to use people who've already moved as bargaining tips to be used in the negotiations not us.
There is no need for a 'reciprocal' deal as the EU has very clear rules about third country nationals which give people who have legally resided in any EU country (except the UK which didn't have the decency to opt in to this rule) the right to remain in the EU under the application of Union law. The whole problem is - as usual - created by the Brits, it should be solved by them.
Congratulations America
Pull the other one, why say "no we won't agree to that until you invoke Article 50" if its already the case and nothing is being conceded?
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