Brexit Begins

[Hazir]

Your Conservative Party set you on a path it has no idea where it will go. Based in the stubborn believe that never when 'the Europeans' said that something wouldn't happen they really meant they would do all they could to not make it happen. While knowing that those same Europeans actually had the power to not make it happen.

And even now that it is being blocked from happening you still deny that we're not overly interested in making a deal on your terms.

As is no single country in this world.

[RandBlade]

We're used to you not wanting a deal on our terms, had thirty years of it already so what else is new?

[Hazir]

We're used to you not wanting a deal on our terms, had thirty years of it already so what else is new?

Rubbish, you thought you were going to get a deal easily because after all you already had a free trade zone with us. You chose to ignore the fact that you couldn't keep it on Brexit. Your vote was based on the self delusional idea that everything would stay the same with the things you liked about the EU.

And now you are denying that your stupidity put you in this mess.

[RandBlade]

I believe we'll get a trade deal as it is in both parties self-interest. If you're too stupid to act in your own self-interest we'll need to act accordingly.

[Hazir]

I believe we'll get a trade deal as it is in both parties self-interest. If you're too stupid to act in your own self-interest we'll need to act accordingly.

Reality 1 : there will be no deal whatsoever if you don't settle the exit in a way WE like,

Reality 2 : there will be a deal on our conditions.

Reality 3 : our first priority is not to have a deal with you.

Also I suggest you to not assume to know better than us what we think is our self-interest.

[RandBlade]

We'll see.

[Aimless]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commenti...talks-brussels

[Hazir]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commenti...talks-brussels

The author has it right, it's not a surprise she used to work for Le Monde. The Brits don't get that there is no mutual interest in play.

[RandBlade]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commenti...talks-brussels

Here we have the EU side's fundamental misunderstanding.

Simply put, the EU’s interests lie in preventing the UK from harming or threatening its integration. The EU is not in a race with the UK. Nor is it trying to punish anyone – which is not to say that the defence of EU red lines won’t at times be detrimental to the UK. But again, leaving was Britain’s choice. The EU did not initiate any of this. It believes the onus is on Britain, not on itself, to do what is necessary to avoid a worst-case scenario.

This is bullshit. Yes the UK's decision to leave was ultimately our decision but the idea the EU was simply a bystander while we made that decision is garbage. The EU has chosen repeatedly over many decades to develop in ways inimitable to the UK's interests, the ECJ has chosen to take sovereignty over areas it wasn't granted to the point it isn't trusted and so on and so forth. The EU was given an opportunity to resolve these problems with David Cameron's renegotiation and decided not to.

The EU has initiated this, if not directly.

[Hazir]

Here we have the EU side's fundamental misunderstanding.
This is bullshit. Yes the UK's decision to leave was ultimately our decision but the idea the EU was simply a bystander while we made that decision is garbage. The EU has chosen repeatedly over many decades to develop in ways inimitable to the UK's interests, the ECJ has chosen to take sovereignty over areas it wasn't granted to the point it isn't trusted and so on and so forth. The EU was given an opportunity to resolve these problems with David Cameron's renegotiation and decided not to.

The EU has initiated this, if not directly.

Whatever Randy. Enjoy position 28 in the pecking order while it lasts.

[Aimless]

Here we have the EU side's fundamental misunderstanding.
This is bullshit. Yes the UK's decision to leave was ultimately our decision but the idea the EU was simply a bystander while we made that decision is garbage. The EU has chosen repeatedly over many decades to develop in ways inimitable to the UK's interests, the ECJ has chosen to take sovereignty over areas it wasn't granted to the point it isn't trusted and so on and so forth. The EU was given an opportunity to resolve these problems with David Cameron's renegotiation and decided not to.

The EU has initiated this, if not directly.

Irrelevant to the point of the article.

[Hazir]

Irrelevant to the point of the article.

I'm a bit tired about these Breximaniacs trying to apologize for their bad choices while sticking to them.

[RandBlade]

Excuse me but where did I apologise for anything?

The point of the article Aimless was that the two sides are seeing things differently. I agree. I think the idea that "well you started it" is total bullshit while others believe that nonsense.

Only read first few paragraphs that are free but this is good: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...d-tears-sides/

[Hazir]

Excuse me but where did I apologise for anything?

The point of the article Aimless was that the two sides are seeing things differently. I agree. I think the idea that "well you started it" is total bullshit while others believe that nonsense.

Only read first few paragraphs that are free but this is good: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...d-tears-sides/

That woman doesn't know what she's writing/talking about. Never has. Even the headline already shows the shallowness of her thinking; couldn't she imagine it would all end in tears while she was cheering on Brexit before the referendum? We knew that and we said it, only half-wit brexiteers wouldn't have it true.

[Aimless]

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/ne...t-horizon-2020

[Khendraja'aro]

Let's not forget that Japan is also less than enamoured with the UK's idiocy. And then there's the elephant in the room, namely China which has even less of a reason to give the UK a favourable deal than the EU.

That will also cost the UK a pretty penny - you guys keep conveniently forgetting that you act as a stepping stone for non-EU companies into the EU.

If you guys then decide to nix easy access to the EU what reason exactly would those companies have to stay in the UK?

[Hazir]

Let's not forget that Japan is also less than enamoured with the UK's idiocy. And then there's the elephant in the room, namely China which has even less of a reason to give the UK a favourable deal than the EU.

That will also cost the UK a pretty penny - you guys keep conveniently forgetting that you act as a stepping stone for non-EU companies into the EU.

If you guys then decide to nix easy access to the EU what reason exactly would those companies have to stay in the UK?

Yeah, what reason would a Japanese car manufacturer have to produce cars in the UK subject to a 10% tariff when they have an agreement with the EU allowing them to import their cars from Japan free of such a tariff?

Funny how the debate between Merkel and Schultz didn't even mention Brexit in a side remark.

You know, I think the problem with people like Randy is that he probably never really traveled in Europe. That would explain his complete lack of understanding as to how predictable the present mess actually was.

[Khendraja'aro]

That's also part of what makes those previous statements by various UK politicians very strange with regards to their: "But we'll get great new deals with other non-EU countries!"

And they promptly ignored that those countries already have pretty great deals with the EU through the UK's EU membership.

Which kind of makes this a: "I just punched you in the mouth. Hard. Want a kiss to make up for it?" situation.

[RandBlade]

We're the world's fifth largest economy. Besides Germany which is in the EU the only economies in the world larger than ours are the USA, China and Japan. What "pretty great deal" do those nations have at the moment?

[Hazir]

That's also part of what makes those previous statements by various UK politicians very strange with regards to their: "But we'll get great new deals with other non-EU countries!"

And they promptly ignored that those countries already have pretty great deals with the EU through the UK's EU membership.

Which kind of makes this a: "I just punched you in the mouth. Hard. Want a kiss to make up for it?" situation.

Well, their lead negotiator didn't know individual EU countries don't negotiate their own trade deals. Which is a special kind of crazy of the purpose of the breximaniacs was to get out of the EU to negotiate their own trade deals.

[Hazir]

We're the world's fifth largest economy. Besides Germany which is in the EU the only economies in the world larger than ours are the USA, China and Japan. What "pretty great deal" do those nations have at the moment?

Like you gonna throw the door shut if the real heavyweights don't care about an agreement with you.

[RandBlade]

Like you gonna throw the door shut if the real heavyweights don't care about an agreement with you.

Well we can open the doors to the real heavyweights which you guys can't and for everyone else we are the heavyweight.

[Khendraja'aro]

We're the world's fifth largest economy.

Yet.

[Hazir]

Well we can open the doors to the real heavyweights which you guys can't and for everyone else we are the heavyweight.

Yeah, like Switzerland did to China.

[RandBlade]

Yes Switzerland (world's 19th largest economy, ~1/5th the size of the UK, about the same relativity that the UK has with the EU27) has a deal with China while the UK as part of the EU does not.

[Aimless]

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-eu-immigrants

Analysis has been pretty damning so far.

[RandBlade]

I don't see any major surprises all things considered.

[Aimless]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SimonFRCo...24059188523008

[Hazir]

Yes Switzerland (world's 19th largest economy, ~1/5th the size of the UK, about the same relativity that the UK has with the EU27) has a deal with China while the UK as part of the EU does not.

LOL, clearly you never bothered to look at the treaty between China and Switzerland. I guess that means you'll deserve it if you get the same deal

[Hazir]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SimonFRCo...24059188523008

Well, that sort of settles it doesn't it? I don't see any deal making it throught the EP after this.