You know this thing where politicians say one thing for audience A, then the opposite to audience B? It's not an exclusively British thing. Poland has no interest in a no-deal scenario (their citizens in the UK wouldn't like it) and unlike what Brexiteers think the Lega doesn't want to leave the EU, it wants to change the EU.Originally Posted by RandBlade
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There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
And he decides who to free and who to blame
Isn't the real problem that UK politics is extremely adversary so MP's simply are hardwired against compromise. So much so that they cannot change it even now that compromise is the only way forward.
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Like all other functional democracies, parliament can and does do cross-party things all the time. The basic problem is that almost no one in Parliament seems May's deal going through as their ideal outcome, and they think if they block her deal enough the [thing they want] will happen. Corbyn wants an election, and he thinks the way to get one is to weaken May enough, Remainer MPs want a second referendum because they somehow think people will go along with it if they just decide to have one without a seriously good reason, Euroskeptics think the EU will cave at the last minute because they're morons, hardline Euroskeptics want a hard Brexit because they're scumbags and traitors. About the only people likely to get what they want at this stage are the hard Euroskeptics. I am genuinely disgusted at this point.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Its not going to happen. I could call for a slice of moon cheese, it doesn't mean there's a conspiracy with NASA to hide the fact the moon is made of cheese and NASA are going to deliver me a delicious slice of moon cheese.
The Lega and Poland are never going to do this. Not in a month of Sundays.
No shit Sherlock, I'm agreeing with you on that. Which is why Carole is as always talking Codswallop. Doesn't matter if that's what Farage wants, it won't happen.
Yeah, I think I'm going to take your confident assertions about what is and isn't going to happen with a forklift of salt at this point.
Nevertheless, the point stands: if I report that you're after a slice of moon cheese it's not a conspiracy theory if you've said publically that you're after moon cheese.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Codswallop didn't report that Farage was after a veto, that would have been true. She went much further saying that Salvini "would" block an extension and calling a veto a "done deal".
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There's just one thing to say to that.
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She's too quick to describe a mere possibility as a certainty, that I will grant, but that doesn't make her a conspiracy theorist.
Or do I get to say you a conspiracy theorist and call you "Stupidblade" or whatever when, e.g. German car makers do not in fact stop no deal at the last minute because they're desperate not to loose access to UK markets?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Rambleblade?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Well, I can't keep up. Today's vote is just more clusterfuck confusion. Deal or No Deal is supposed to be a crappy reality TV show, not a national policy.
You could if I'd said with certainty they would. As that's not what I've said though it won't make sense.
Is that a challenge? The fact of the matter is that your Brexit resembles what I told you it would be like in a way even I hadn't expected.
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Tbh, at this point, I don't think the EU's fascist wannabes are the greatest threat to an extension of the A50 period--it's the British Parliament. If the UK requests an extension without there being any indication at all of a workable consensus on the WA forming in Parliament, you won't have to be an anti-EU fascist to want to pass on the offer. It would only prolong uncertainty further, with little expected gain. Would be contrary to business- & political interests in most EU member states.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
100% agreed.
There is a deal on the table. If Parliament wants to avoid no deal then they can take it.
You can agree, you can disagree, but a 2 year extension would move us all that much away from the cliff's edge. So there will be people who will support that idea, even without the HoC having a plan. Because you know, pain in two years is quite appealing compared to the same pain in 14 days.
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If everyone in the EU wants to drag this farce out for 2 years then I think enough muppets in Parliament will go along with that. First thing we can do in that 2 years is get rid of the imbecile occupying Number 10.
I think there's a lot to commend a 21 month extension but it would only make sense if the EU starts negotiating the future agreement which to date we've been told can only be negotiated once we've left.
Well, you should know fairly well now what you can get with May's bunch of red lines. Which ones are you willing to drop?
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None. I'm willing to drop May though.
It is hilarious how you still think this is all somehow May's fault.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
It is. This whole thing is a farce and shows abject lack of leadership.
She finally won a vote today. She called for an extension, her Brexit Secretary summed up the debate calling for an extension - then promptly walked into the Nay lobby to vote against the motion he'd just pushed in the Chamber along with half the Cabinet and most Tory MPs. So May "won" by going against the only thing she's said for the last 2 years and letting her MPs ignore her while she claims the opposition as a win.
The whole thing is beyond a bad joke now.
What you're seeing is the clash between your dysfunctional parliament and... reality. A leader is not a magician.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
'oh no we can't have a second vote it would defy the peoples will'
you don't actually have to put remain in as an option, you numpties, there are three other possible options
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Good luck trying to get support for a second referendum without Remain being on the ballot.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Parliament is dysfunctional because the "leader" has no authority and no majority. Now whose fault is that?
Yet Parliament voting on the same thrice somehow is a sound policy.
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Erskine May says no. It is possible May could request a third vote and the Speaker could say no. A new vote couldn't happen then until the Speaker deemed there had been a substantial change to what was being voted on.
But you also know that the change doesn't necessarily have to be in the text of the proposal. It could also be a changed environment. Otherwise, nothing is set in stone. A majority of the House may decide a vote is desirable.
And unlike before Parliament now actually needs a deal. With preciously little time to decide what that deal might be.
Last edited by Hazir; 03-14-2019 at 10:41 PM.
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Rutte gave a fairly clear message about a delay tonight; he's not very willing to keep on talking about a deal or Brexit for that matter if the UK sticks to its red lines.
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If there's a long delay, I don't think the EU really has a choice. Because quite frankly whatever May says to you now is moot.
May could say she wants a long delay to drop her red lines and sign a SM and CU deal.
May could say she wants a long delay to have a deal v remain referendum.
You could vote for the long delay or have a crash out. But since May is not in charge of Parliament, you've no more clue that what you agree with May will occur than the deal that was agreed last November with May will occur. Frankly as soon as there is clarity here, either a long extension or a deal ratified, May will be gone. We will get a new PM elected. And that new PM's red lines will reflect what they get elected upon and who gets elected.
Whatever May said will be gone. Just like whatever Cameron said.
Rutte may be not very willing to keep on talking, but unless he is willing to cast a veto and have an immediate hard border crash out exit, what he's not very willing to do will be done. Once you've ruled out the impossible ...
It wouldn't matter who was in charge of this shambles. Whatever decision or policy on Brexit is proposed, it will get voted down by parliament. How else do you parse voting against any deal whilst simultaneously voting against no deal.
It doesn't matter whether it's May or some other moron in the Tory party, Labour party or the Lib Dems who puts forward a proposal, it will get still get voted down by a parliament filled with idiots who all want their own petty way.
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