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Thread: Spitzer Study Published: Evidence Found for Effectiveness of Reorientation Therapy

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    How can you prove this "subliminal desire" does not come from a disorder?
    For example, people may hate their boss, but in the end it could be that the boss reminds dad or mom, so that person does not hate the boss but the symbolic representation of mom and dad.
    Or, it could be that their boss is actually a dick.

    Couldn't it?

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    How can you prove this "subliminal desire" does not come from a disorder?
    For example, people may hate their boss, but in the end it could be that the boss reminds dad or mom, so that person does not hate the boss but the symbolic representation of mom and dad.

    Here an article on attraction:

    Our animal instincts
    Honey, we are all disordered and messy animals, trying to do the best we can and find happiness. It's just our nature. Not going to click on your link, why bother? There is virtually no way to deem who's Healthy and who's not, when it comes to gender and sex. The best we can do is accept people in their endeavors, for whatever reasons.

    It really does boil down to What Makes You Happy. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa. There are a lot of unhappy and discontented people in the world, but maybe just as many who are happy and content. Probably has less to do with genitals than mindset, or where we live and how we are accepted.

    Life isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.

  3. #33
    ESL = extremely stupid lifeform? Really? hmm. It sounded like a game producer acronym to me, ESB or something like that. But then, I'm just a stupid fucking cunt. On an anti-histamine high. Talking about gender and sex on teh intarspiderwebs.

    Any cultural parallel to MILF? You all need to educate the lame old lady in PA, so I don't keep talking to my cats!

  4. #34
    ESL? When someone runs out of reasonable intelligent arguments, there is always the option of switching to ad hominem attacks to derail the intelligent reasoning.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    It was posited years ago that every human is born a natural bisexual,
    I'm familiar with the claim, I've read some of the research, and it's not particularly compelling, except for those who already accept the thesis of cultural determinism.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    How can you prove supression of desires?
    The very high recidivism rate is rather suggestive.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    intelligent reasoning.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    If orientation can be changed, it is a preference.
    My favorite analogy is to hair color. It can be hidden, it can be removed entirely, at least for a while, it can slowly shift over time, and it can even demonstrate sharp local change in the face of environmental extremes. But you still have a hair color.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    My favorite analogy is to hair color. It can be hidden, it can be removed entirely, at least for a while, it can slowly shift over time, and it can even demonstrate sharp local change in the face of environmental extremes. But you still have a hair color.
    Does it mean that there is a pedophile hidden inside a gay, as church says?
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    Does it mean that there is a pedophile hidden inside a gay, as church says?
    WTF! Was that an accusation?
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  11. #41
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    ESL= English as a Second Language

    It's not an insult, but an accurate descriptor...just like I would be F(rench)SL (if I was any good at it).

  12. #42
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    Does it mean that there is a pedophile hidden inside a gay, as church says?


    WTF?

    What church?

    And WHO THE FUCK CARES WHAT A CHURCH SAYS? Why would I listen to an organization based upon an invisible sky pixie?

    Moron.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    I'm familiar with the claim, I've read some of the research, and it's not particularly compelling, except for those who already accept the thesis of cultural determinism.
    Then explain identical twin studies where the children are raised in *the same* environments and come to different conclusions about their sexual identity. Even though they shared the same gestational womb, the same in-situ hormones and nutrients.

    Some of that might be a biological assumption without "proof", since multiple births often show a 'shunting' of maternal circulation, preferring one fetus over the other, just in physical dynamics. Birth order may also play a part. Vaginal deliveries or C-sections.

    We can now space delivery of fraternal twins who don't share a placenta, uterine twins being delivered days apart.
    Last edited by GGT; 04-14-2010 at 07:52 PM. Reason: * oops

  14. #44
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Not all idenetical twins are gay to begin with mayhap?

    I think the stats are 60-80% if one is the other is?

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    WTF! Was that an accusation?
    No. There is a thread on it.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  16. #46
    GGT, there was also a study that claimed lower birth order children had a higher percentage of being gay.
    IE, the more children you have the chances the later children will be gay goes up.

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Not all idenetical twins are gay to begin with mayhap?

    I think the stats are 60-80% if one is the other is?
    The point is, if homosexuality is a gene, and identical twins don't share sexual orientation 100% of the time, there is something else at work.

    I may be a minority opinion here, I don't care if it's genetic (determined) or cultural (chosen). I only care how people treat their partners/spouses/mates.

    If there's a re-orientation program for abusive mates, or habitual liars, or those who take sacred vows and then reneg on them, or seemingly innocent serial monogamy with all kinds of emotional fall-out....that captures my interest. Whether they are homosexual or heterosexual.

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Bitter Jeweler View Post
    GGT, there was also a study that claimed lower birth order children had a higher percentage of being gay.
    IE, the more children you have the chances the later children will be gay goes up.
    Does that really matter though? Except to roman catholics or mormons who go into politics?

    I have a really REALLY small family, but that doesn't mean we don't have a history of homosexuality or bisexuality. I only spawned two children, but I could give a rat's ass if they both say they are gay. I didn't plan their existence just to prolong my own, in some gene pool raffle.

    It's never been my goal to be a grandmother, anyway. My kids don't know much about living maternal ancestors (we seem to die young-ish on my side), but they have enough on their paternal side. To the point that their surname is on stores, signs and billboards, boat loads of cousins and second cousins and all that, but they have no clue who these people really ARE.

  19. #49
    There is no evidence of such gene.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    There is no evidence of such gene.
    That's okay by me. I don't have a problem with people having sex with same gender. As far as I'm concerned, it's fine if they just choose to do so. No gene is necessary, because it's not a problem to be solved.

    Scientists like to figure these things out, so that's okay too.

  21. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    That's okay by me. I don't have a problem with people having sex with same gender. As far as I'm concerned, it's fine if they just choose to do so. No gene is necessary, because it's not a problem to be solved.

    Scientists like to figure these things out, so that's okay too.
    What about sexual preference of people who choose to have sex with animals or children?
    Is that Ok to you too?
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  22. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    The point is, if homosexuality is a gene, and identical twins don't share sexual orientation 100% of the time, there is something else at work.

    I may be a minority opinion here, I don't care if it's genetic (determined) or cultural (chosen). I only care how people treat their partners/spouses/mates.

    If there's a re-orientation program for abusive mates, or habitual liars, or those who take sacred vows and then reneg on them, or seemingly innocent serial monogamy with all kinds of emotional fall-out....that captures my interest. Whether they are homosexual or heterosexual.
    You're ignoring the fact that only about 5% of the general population is gay. If 60% of gay twins are both gay, that is far more than random chance would produce.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #53
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    The interesting thing is that if a person can be reoriented, it means that gays have a preference that can be changed.
    Someone should "reorient" you, so we can prove that heterosexuality is a choice too. Plus, having you reoriented would be much more amusing and noteworthy, because it would give me a chance to talk about you getting buttfucked for the sake of science.

    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    What about sexual preference of people who choose to have sex with animals or children?
    Is that Ok to you too?
    You're pretty high and mighty for someone who announced (back on the Atari CC) that you had a 6 year old girlfriend.

    Or is that what this is about? You're hoping gays can be re-oriented, so there's hope that someone can change your sexual attraction to people who still wet the bed?
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    You're pretty high and mighty for someone who announced (back on the Atari CC) that you had a 6 year old girlfriend.
    No, I had a girfriend WITH a 6 year old son.
    She is indeed 2 years older than me, and I am not 4 years old.
    Back then I had poor english skills and I was posting asleep.
    I thought it was clarified back then.

    Indeed I have collaborated with an anti-pedophile American NGO that has branches in many countries, and I also denounced a case before the court of justice. Ironically an atheist American helped me, and an evangelic guy took sides to defend the guy that was denounced.
    Last edited by ar81; 04-14-2010 at 09:58 PM.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    The point is, if homosexuality is a gene, and identical twins don't share sexual orientation 100% of the time, there is something else at work.

    I may be a minority opinion here, I don't care if it's genetic (determined) or cultural (chosen). I only care how people treat their partners/spouses/mates.
    There can be a biological component beyond genetics or prenatal hormone environments.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  26. #56
    If gay is in the gene pool, does it mean reorientation therapy causes gene mutations?
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

  27. #57

  28. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    If gay is in the gene pool, does it mean reorientation therapy causes gene mutations?
    If stupid is in the gene pool, does it mean education causes gene mutations?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  29. #59
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
    No, I had a girfriend WITH a 6 year old son.
    So you were dating a woman just so you could sleep with her 6 year old son? That's despicable!

    Anyway, news related to your original study, gay anal sex cures the swine flu.

    Just take it up the ass from another man, once a day for two weeks, and you'll be cured, guaranteed!

    This leads me to conclude that governments should force everyone into having gay anal sex, to eliminate the swine flu pandemic.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  30. #60
    GeeGee might have a point, we need morons around to generate funny threads every once in awhile!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

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