Are we using Obama as a scapegoat?

[Dreadnaught]

I'll get back to you when I read chapter 33 and 34. I just finished the WWII chapter. I was just looking at it the way an economist would. So not only am I right from an economist's point of view. But you're wrong, go check your facts next time. Last time I check, the US went into a small period of recession right after WWII.

We did go through a recession, which is part of why the tax cuts were enacted. You aren't right from an economists' point of view. If you knew anything about economics, you would know that the question of whether or not the New Deal helped or hurt the US economy continues to be debated among economists to this day.

FFS, you're talking down to people who have varying levels of higher degrees in economics. And you don't need a degree to explain and intuit things in a common sense way, except you don't seem able to do that either.

[Aimless]

Foreign companies generally pay their workers about twice the local salary (in the third world). If you force them to pay substantially more, they'd have absolutely no reason to set up shop in the third world.

Even if twice the local salary is less than half an American salary?

Do all foreign companies look out for their workers in addition to paying them? Ensure good working conditions? Do those workers have any sort of job security?

I'm not saying globalisation is a bad thing in and of itself, but the impression I've gotten is that, When western companies set up shop in poorly developed regions, they get pretty callous.

[Loki]

Even if twice the local salary is less than half an American salary?

You do realize that productivity in the US is more than twice the productivity of third world countries, right? So if you paid the third world workers half the US salaries, no sane company would create employment in the third world.

[CitizenCain]

I don't support protectionism. But I do oppose exploitation, even when its wrapped up as 'globalization' and all the economists say its great for everybody. I also oppose denuding our nation of important economic capacity, like heavy manufacturing. You might say that's selfish, but I think the rest of the world is ready and willing to take advantage of our employment charity and when the shoes switch feet they're not likely to reciprocate. Its similar to the reasoning behind not unilaterally destroying all our nuclear weapons, even though we all support peace and want a world free of the nuclear threat. Other people may not hold our ideals and may use them for advantage.

So we shouldn't allow US companies to employ exploit foreign workers, because they'd be better off as subsistence farmers and prostitutes? And we're better off paying [much] higher prices for common goods? Sounds like a pretty flimsy justification for protectionism to me.

#1. You don't get to criticize anyone for not being factual while denying global warming.

OK, but you're not allowed to criticize anyone while conflating libertarians with conservatives.

#2. You can call yourself a flying spaghetti monster for all I care. You are conservative because of your political positions, not for what you call yourself. And yes, Libertarians = Conservatives.

Ah, yes. Everyone who disagrees with you is one of "them." Got it.

You're as credible as Scientology since you can't back up your statement or wish not to.

Wow, my heart is breaking. I don't care enough to waste my time... so that's not exactly going to motivate me. Go on thinking the government will save us all, for all I care.

Except it's a college textbook?

Community college, maybe.

And the teacher actually teaches like a college teacher? All we're lectured on in class is about how he liked [insert president] for [insert reason].

Yeah, he sounds like a real impartial source of information.

Explain how it's a "broken window fallacy".

Why?

Seriously, tell me why I should take the time, when you've just ignored everything else that other people (who also know more than you) have been saying? Seriously, sounds like my time would be better spent masturbating.

[Young Mage]

Seriously, tell me why I should take the time, when you've just ignored everything else that other people (who also know more than you) have been saying? Seriously, sounds like my time would be better spent masturbating.

Because I respect you more than most members on this site and your opinion actually holds some weight.

[Aimless]

You do realize that productivity in the US is more than twice the productivity of third world countries, right? So if you paid the third world workers half the US salaries, no sane company would create employment in the third world.

Er, as in American workers are twice as productive as third world workers in similar jobs??!

[Lor]

Because I respect you more than most members on this site and your opinion actually holds some weight.

Quit sucking Cain's dick, soon enough he'll have visions of it being a woman and will enjoy it. When that happens, you're in a world of shit.

[Dreadnaught]

Er, as in American workers are twice as productive as third world workers in similar jobs??!

In terms of dollar amount of GDP produced, yes. Get a third world laborer and a first world office worker and have them compete on a farming project and the 3rd world dude will probably win because he has more experience with manual labor.

But it's not about manual labor. It's about first world countries having more output per person, thus more productivity. It's a more literal idea of productivity.

[termite]

Recessions are part of a natural cycle, just like climate change.

[EyeKhan]

So we shouldn't allow US companies to employ exploit foreign workers, because they'd be better off as subsistence farmers and prostitutes? And we're better off paying [much] higher prices for common goods? Sounds like a pretty flimsy justification for protectionism to me.

So globalization is charity for subsistance farmers and their prostitute wives? You really do have a bleeding heart!

OK, but you're not allowed to criticize anyone while conflating libertarians with conservatives.

Even when its true? That doesn't seem very fair.

Ah, yes. Everyone who disagrees with you is one of "them." Got it.

Its not about me, its about your views. They are conservative. So you're stuck with the label.

Recessions are part of a natural cycle, just like climate change.

Yeah, and like the last recession, this next climate change cycle's gonna be a doozy.

[Young Mage]

Quit sucking Cain's dick, soon enough he'll have visions of it being a woman and will enjoy it. When that happens, you're in a world of shit.

I'm pretty sure I pmed Lolli a while and"suck[ed] up" to her to a certain degree for something she did. Cain is the only person who I actually follow around on this forum because he's found a way to be autistic and intelligent at the same time. I mean he's Glenn Beck with a brain.

Awww, did bwabie get his fweelings huwt by big scawy Cwain?

Grow the fuck up, buddy.

Recessions are part of a natural cycle, just like climate change.

Did you really say that?

The way humanity can alter the economy's so called "natural cycle", humanity can also alter nature's "natural cycle".

[Aimless]

I'm pretty sure I pmed Lolli a while and"suck[ed] up" to her to a certain degree for something she did. Cain is the only person who I actually follow around on this forum because he's found a way to be autistic and intelligent at the same time. I mean he's Glenn Beck with a brain.

Awww, did bwabie get his fweelings huwt by big scawy Cwain?

Grow the fuck up, buddy.

Did you know that a lot of people who are spanked as children grow up to advocate spanking?

[EyeKhan]

Did you know that a lot of people who are spanked as children grow up to advocate spanking?

People tend to mindlessly support/mimic the horrors (ie values) they were raised with even if they hated them while being raised. Its part of the human condition and one more piece of evidence that we are less sentient than we believe.

[Young Mage]

Did you know that a lot of people who are spanked as children grow up to advocate spanking?

I was never spanked as a child. I was beaten with whatever. I don't want to beat my children, but if they become ungratful little shits like my friends. I'll teach them respect. And frankly, I'm not going to beat my children if they don't do well on a test or a semester like my parents did with me. I find that ridiculous. Nor am I going to be as controlling as my parents or as repressive.

So I guess that theory never truly applies to everyone or anyone who didn't have a mental breakdown from the abuse and i'm using "abuse" pretty subjectively.

[Lor]

I'm pretty sure I pmed Lolli a while and"suck[ed] up" to her to a certain degree for something she did. Cain is the only person who I actually follow around on this forum because he's found a way to be autistic and intelligent at the same time. I mean he's Glenn Beck with a brain.

Awww, did bwabie get his fweelings huwt by big scawy Cwain?

Grow the fuck up, buddy.

Hold on sweet cheeks, no need to get ultra defensive. Did you forget to have your Ready Brek?

Note to Young Mage - I wasn't being serious. Just yanking your chain! Not as bright as i thought ...

As for Cain, he's not that scary. More like a puppy dog, a Yorkshire Terrier if you like.

-edit-

I'm not your friend, i shouldn't even be speaking to strangers like you!

[Loki]

Er, as in American workers are twice as productive as third world workers in similar jobs??!

Actually, they're anywhere from 10 to 40 times more productive. American workers have access to better technology (main reason), have far better training, have a better education, live in a more stable society (you'd be surprised how much coups, civil wars, etc. lower productivity), and live in a society with a strong rule of law. So if the pay differential is anything less than that 10-40 times, there's very little incentive for American companies to do business in much of the third world.

[CitizenCain]

Because I respect you more than most members on this site and your opinion actually holds some weight.

Then my opinion is that you should listen to Loki and/or Dread, both of whom know more about economics than I do. Also, for future reference, bribery will get you further with me than flattery will. If you want help deciding what to bribe me with, I prefer redheads, Eastern European vodka, opiates, high end electronics and/or cash. Combine all five for maximum effect.

As to why it's a form of broken window fallacy - because whether we're talking about FDR creating do-nothing jobs, Obama funding failed businesses, or going around breaking windows to "create" work for window makers... ultimately, you're ignoring the fact that the money to pay for it must come from the earnings of "productive" labor at some point, but you're creating this work by destroying the products of "productive" labor. Net negative productivity.

Quit sucking Cain's dick, soon enough he'll have visions of it being a woman and will enjoy it. When that happens, you're in a world of shit.

Oh please. Give me some credit. I hardly need to rely on my imagination to get my dick sucked. All it takes me is a 10 dollar bill.

So globalization is charity for subsistance farmers and their prostitute wives? You really do have a bleeding heart!

No, it's mutually beneficial. Like Loki said in the first place. They don't have to scrape out a marginal living trying to grow crops on shitty land and/or whoring themselves out to tourists, and we get [relatively] cheap labor.

Better for both parties.

Of course, if you actually gave a shit about the impoverished people of wherethefuckever, you'd be giving them *your* money instead of complaining when American companies engage in commerce with them.

I mean he's Glenn Beck ...

Considering that I know where you go to school, and have a large collection of firearms, you'll probably want to avoid making that comparison ever again.

[EyeKhan]

Considering that I know where you go to school, and have a large collection of firearms, you'll probably want to avoid making that comparison ever again.

Can we start calling you a Becktard?

[CitizenCain]

Can we start calling you a Becktard?

Sure... I've been itching for an excuse to try out some of these new frangible rounds on a live target. It's one thing to see them explode a watermelon or a frozen turkey, but that doesn't really give you a sense of how much damage it does to an actual limb, or a living organ. Does it render the limb immobile? Cause a target to double over in pain from an obliterated liver? Perhaps even induce unconsciousness from the pain of having a kidney explode?

These are the questions you just can't answer shooting at food. Stupid fucking laws... if that methhead wants to rent himself out as a target for one dose of crystal per shot, why can't he?

[EyeKhan]

These are the questions you just can't answer shooting at food. Stupid fucking laws... if that methhead wants to rent himself out as a target for one dose of crystal per shot, why can't he?

Who?

[CitizenCain]

It's not like I asked his name or anything. All I needed to hear was "will get shot at for meth."

[EyeKhan]

No, it's mutually beneficial. Like Loki said in the first place. They don't have to scrape out a marginal living trying to grow crops on shitty land and/or whoring themselves out to tourists, and we get [relatively] cheap labor.

Better for both parties.

Of course, if you actually gave a shit about the impoverished people of wherethefuckever, you'd be giving them *your* money instead of complaining when American companies engage in commerce with them.

Ok, on a serious note - On the one hand, I agree and appreciate that globalization is equalizing *some* of the wealth imbalance in the world. On the other hand, there *is* exploitation of various types, depending on how protectionist the outsourcee is. On the last hand, the equalization's not so pretty when you're living in the region whose industry is being resourced to poor countries. And aside from all that, maybe I'm paranoid but I still can't fully accept it's a good idea to move all your heavy manufacturing, metal working, machining, etc to foreign countries. Countries without industry are at a decided disadvantage in old-style wars, the kinds we used to fight before nukes.... Probably we'll never go there again, but still... Notice also we're still protectionist about our food production. If we went full global free trade with food, how easy would it be to cow the United States with a food embargo? You think farm subsidies should go away? I'm not convinced our resistance to doing that is solely due to vote buying.

It's not like I asked his name or anything. All I needed to hear was "will get shot at for meth."

But is that a real annecdote or something else?

[Young Mage]

I thought I pmed you that that High School was my base school and it had more than 4 black people. :/ Wrong school bud. But if you happen to murder those Africans in cold blood. I won't mind.

And i'd appreciate it if you did not post any personal info you happen to come across.

[CitizenCain]

Ok, on a serious note - On the one hand, I agree and appreciate that globalization is equalizing *some* of the wealth imbalance in the world. On the other hand, there *is* exploitation of various types, depending on how protectionist the outsourcee is. On the last hand, the equalization's not so pretty when you're living in the region whose industry is being resourced to poor countries.

And, ironically, it's exactly those regions that are driving the outsourcing. Seriously.

I don't shop at Walmart (much), and don't give a fuck if I pay an extra 3 bucks for a padlock or a blanket or a fucking jug of milk. Hell, sometimes I'll do it just because I'm too lazy to spend an extra 45 seconds getting it from the local grocery store, and buy it at the overpriced convenience store. I know I could save a few bucks going to the grocery store, and don't give a shit. I'd rather spend the 3 bucks to enable me to not give a fuck.

On the other hand, it's exactly the type of folks who make shit for money in dead-end manufacturing positions who need to save 3 bucks on a padlock, go to Walmart, and increase the pressure on goods manufacturers to outsource jobs to some foreign shithole, instead of relying on labor from the Rust Belt, USA.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that the same retards with "buy American" stickers on their old pickup trucks are the primary driver behind outsourcing American manufacturing jobs overseas. Stupid people being ironical make me laugh.

And aside from all that, maybe I'm paranoid but I still can't fully accept it's a good idea to move all your heavy manufacturing, metal working, machining, etc to foreign countries. Countries without industry are at a decided disadvantage in old-style wars, the kinds we used to fight before nukes.... Probably we'll never go there again, but still...

Don't worry about it. If an illiterate Palestinian making 1,000 Shekels a year panhandling in the Gaza strip can make a 500 pound bomb, so can we, regardless of how much heavy industry we outsource. Making the bomb's the easy part. It's the guidance system that lets us put it through a safehouse door without touching the door frame that makes the difference.

So if you want to worry about military supremacy, worry about the outsourcing of our computer jobs and semi-conductor fabrication (to India and China). We don't engage in wars of industrial production anymore... since GW 1, it's been "information war." Remember that? We gutted the world's fourth largest military without a single heavy vehicle lost, and our soldiers had a lower death rate than the general population back home. 1,000 tank divisions don't mean shit when your enemy can destroy them all with guided missiles from 500 miles away.

Notice also we're still protectionist about our food production. If we went full global free trade with food, how easy would it be to cow the United States with a food embargo? You think farm subsidies should go away? I'm not convinced our resistance to doing that is solely due to vote buying.

Well, it is. It's just politics. We may not have tens of millions of small farmers in this country anymore, but the agricultural industry is responsible for tens of millions of jobs all the same. It's not a group politicians can afford to alienate, and that's got nothing to do with national security. Seriously, we grow so much food in this country that we use millions of tonnes of it as gasoline every year. (9 Billion gallons of ethanol is used in gasoline in the US every year... and it keeps growing.)

But is that a real annecdote or something else?

On the advice of counsel, I am stating that it was a work of fiction, and any similarity to reality, current criminal investigations, or pending civil litigation is entirely unintended and coincidental.

[']['ear]

On the advice of counsel, I am stating that it was a work of fiction, and any similarity to reality, current criminal investigations, or pending civil litigation is entirely unintended and coincidental.

Yeah, tell us some more tall stories, Cain. Iraq? Canada? Porfessional online poker player? Sexual escapades, including those that were illegal? Drunk driving? C'mon man! What an incredible life you lead!

[CitizenCain]

Yeah, tell us some more tall stories, Cain. Iraq? Canada? Porfessional online poker player? Sexual escapades, including those that were illegal? Drunk driving? C'mon man! What an incredible life you lead!

Wow. You're pretty easy to impress. I mean, fuck, if being a drunk Canuck is impressive to you, what isn't? Hell, if you want a tall tale, I got a way better one than that. This one time, at band camp, I stuck a flute in my pussy! Wicked cool, huh?

But about those illegal sexual escapades... those sound entertaining. Could you tell us one, or are you just taking my pedo-bear postings seriously? Because selective memory is one thing... but selective brain death seems a lot like a mental illness. You should probably have a doctor look at that.

[Loki]

I think Tear's problem is that he's lied so much about himself, he automatically assumes that everyone else lies about themselves, too. Considering that Young Mage was the only one to recently try to use his "accomplishments" to support an argument (and he did provide support for those "accomplishments"), I really see no reason to think that any of the regulars here lie about anything of substance.

[Young Mage]

I'm glad I did something correctly for once and I did fuck up big time providing people with that. I just didn't want to be like him and just sound like a loud mouth. I'm pretty sure everyone here recognizes I'm diligent and I strive to overachieve but it doesn't necessary mean i'm intelligent or witty.

[']['ear]

How have I lied about myself, Loki?

[Loki]

Are you serious?