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Thread: Damn Stephen Hawking and the chair he rode in on...

  1. #1

    Default Damn Stephen Hawking and the chair he rode in on...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Times Online
    From The Sunday Times
    April 25, 2010


    Don’t talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking

    Hawking has depicted what kinds of alien could be out there


    - Jonathan Leake

    THE aliens are out there and Earth had better watch out, at least according to Stephen Hawking. He has suggested that extraterrestrials are almost certain to exist — but that instead of seeking them out, humanity should be doing all it that can to avoid any contact.

    The suggestions come in a new documentary series in which Hawking, one of the world’s leading scientists, will set out his latest thinking on some of the universe’s greatest mysteries.

    Alien life, he will suggest, is almost certain to exist in many other parts of the universe: not just in planets, but perhaps in the centre of stars or even floating in interplanetary space.

    Hawking’s logic on aliens is, for him, unusually simple. The universe, he points out, has 100 billion galaxies, each containing hundreds of millions of stars. In such a big place, Earth is unlikely to be the only planet where life has evolved.

    “To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational,” he said. “The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like.”
    The answer, he suggests, is that most of it will be the equivalent of microbes or simple animals — the sort of life that has dominated Earth for most of its history.

    One scene in his documentary for the Discovery Channel shows herds of two-legged herbivores browsing on an alien cliff-face where they are picked off by flying, yellow lizard-like predators. Another shows glowing fluorescent aquatic animals forming vast shoals in the oceans thought to underlie the thick ice coating Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter.

    Such scenes are speculative, but Hawking uses them to lead on to a serious point: that a few life forms could be intelligent and pose a threat. Hawking believes that contact with such a species could be devastating for humanity.

    He suggests that aliens might simply raid Earth for its resources and then move on: “We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach.”

    He concludes that trying to make contact with alien races is “a little too risky”. He said: “If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn’t turn out very well for the Native Americans.”

    The completion of the documentary marks a triumph for Hawking, now 68, who is paralysed by motor neurone disease and has very limited powers of communication. The project took him and his producers three years, during which he insisted on rewriting large chunks of the script and checking the filming.

    John Smithson, executive producer for Discovery, said: “He wanted to make a programme that was entertaining for a general audience as well as scientific and that’s a tough job, given the complexity of the ideas involved.”

    Hawking has suggested the possibility of alien life before but his views have been clarified by a series of scientific breakthroughs, such as the discovery, since 1995, of more than 450 planets orbiting distant stars, showing that planets are a common phenomenon.

    So far, all the new planets found have been far larger than Earth, but only because the telescopes used to detect them are not sensitive enough to detect Earth-sized bodies at such distances.
    Another breakthrough is the discovery that life on Earth has proven able to colonise its most extreme environments. If life can survive and evolve there, scientists reason, then perhaps nowhere is out of bounds.

    Hawking’s belief in aliens places him in good scientific company. In his recent Wonders of the Solar System BBC series, Professor Brian Cox backed the idea, too, suggesting Mars, Europa and Titan, a moon of Saturn, as likely places to look.

    Similarly, Lord Rees, the astronomer royal, warned in a lecture earlier this year that aliens might prove to be beyond human understanding.

    “I suspect there could be life and intelligence out there in forms we can’t conceive,” he said. “Just as a chimpanzee can’t understand quantum theory, it could be there are aspects of reality that are beyond the capacity of our brains.”

    Stephen Hawking's Universe begins on the Discovery Channel on Sunday May 9 at 9pm
    Source

    Bolded what interests me for starting this.

    This has been circulating for a bit now, its even reached some local newspapers. The main problem comes from what I just experienced a few minutes ago. To the average person, Stephen Hawking's opinions on science rank pretty highly, and when he affirmatively states a belief in something, its taken as the gospel truth until someone else undeniably proves him wrong. Which is problematic. We've had movies depicting alien invasions for decades now, but we've also had movies where they're friendly, helpful, or at least not out to murder us en masse and plunder our planet for resources. Thank you Stephen Hawking for elevating the latter (the murdering and plundering en masse part) in the eyes of the average person as to what will likely happen if we ever cross paths. Thank you so much for this misguided opinion of yours. Right now I'm not even going to detail the logistics of why an alien civilization capable of interstellar travel would be uninterested in pillaging Earth for resources as I'd really like to hear what your opinions are on this.

    He's done many wonderful things for science in general, however I would've hoped that someone as intelligent as Stephen Hawking would be able to understand and have some concept of the weight his opinions and statements have for people.

    Also if anybody finds the thread title too crass feel free to PM a mod about it.
    . . .

  2. #2
    You're attacking him for making an uneducated guess in an area where only uneducated guesses are possible?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You're attacking him for making an uneducated guess in an area where only uneducated guesses are possible?
    I'm attacking him for making an uneducated guess that doesn't follow logic, and then presenting it to lay people as if he is an expert on such things.
    . . .

  4. #4
    Sorry, but you can't invoke logic in an area where so much is unknown.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #5
    You love talking about extra-terrestrials, don't you Low-key
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  6. #6
    I'm just amused at scientists staking their reputation on little more than intuition.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #7
    Staking their reputation?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  8. #8
    Oh I don't know, he kinda has a point.

    Why take the chance of contacting an alien species that trumps us technologically and just hope that they aren't hostile?
    The potential gains of contact are high, but not worth getting wiped out for.
    It's a bit dramatic, but I can see where he's coming from.

  9. #9
    Steven Hawkings is staking his reputation on aliens being hostile?

    WTF loki

  10. #10
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Well, how is he wrong?

    “If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn’t turn out very well for the Native Americans.”

    Sounds airtight to me.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  11. #11
    Of course it does
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  12. #12
    I didn't know hallucination(s) was/were part of the symptom(s) that plagued him.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Staking their reputation?
    It depends on how strongly he's willing to defend his position I suppose.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    It depends on how strongly he's willing to defend his position I suppose.
    You seem to have pretty grandiose ideas about the importance of pop-sci
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  15. #15
    Although it would be hysterical if he had come out of nowhere with this proclamation, this quote:

    One scene in his documentary for the Discovery Channel
    instead puts a more mundane spin on things.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    You seem to have pretty grandiose ideas about the importance of pop-sci
    I'm not the one going on television and defending an unsupportable argument.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I'm not the one going on television and defending an unsupportable argument.
    Has anyone invited you onto the idiot box?
    There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
    And he decides who to free and who to blame

  18. #18
    That might be a function of me not having a reputation to squander.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    That might be a function of me not having a reputation to squander.
    Again, a pop-sci tee-vee show is going to ruin his reputation?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  20. #20
    Like I said, it depends on how rigorously he pursues these claims. If this is the last time we hear of them, then no, probably not.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  21. #21
    He's hardly the first scientist to have said something similar.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  22. #22
    And you honestly think that scientists who obsess with aliens (the technologically advanced variety) don't have their reputations undermined?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #23
    uh

    What do you mean 'obsess', here? Are you talking about scientists who are also avid sci-fi fans, or those who do a lot of work on technologically advanced aliens? Because, if it's the latter then I'm not sure such a beast actually exists. And if they did exist, how would you distinguish what they publish from science fiction, given that it is all speculative? Does this mean you're saying that scientists who write science fiction on the side have their reputations ruined? Because if so then that is demonstrably not the case. Or are you talking about scientists who do nothing but publish speculative work on technological aliens, and do no other science? If so, then how do you distinguish them from science fiction writers?
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  24. #24
    Genius often coincides with madness....look at Tesla (sp?).

    Saw a commercial for the program mentioned on TV yesterday and just had to laugh.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Like I said, it depends on how rigorously he pursues these claims. If this is the last time we hear of them, then no, probably not.
    So if he makes five pop-sci tee vee shows where he discusses his views on the possible hostility of extra-terrestrial intelligences, his reputation is a foregone conclusion? Ten?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    uh

    What do you mean 'obsess', here? Are you talking about scientists who are also avid sci-fi fans, or those who do a lot of work on technologically advanced aliens? Because, if it's the latter then I'm not sure such a beast actually exists. And if they did exist, how would you distinguish what they publish from science fiction, given that it is all speculative? Does this mean you're saying that scientists who write science fiction on the side have their reputations ruined? Because if so then that is demonstrably not the case. Or are you talking about scientists who do nothing but publish speculative work on technological aliens, and do no other science? If so, then how do you distinguish them from science fiction writers?
    Do authors who write science fiction actually believe it is true?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  27. #27
    You mean, do they think that there really is a race of blue space aardvark living on Zeta Reticuli 5 whose culture is based mainly on weaving, or do they believe that the issues they write about, the technology they depict and the situations they based their stories around are plausible enough that they could happen once we move out into the stars?
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  28. #28
    Relativistic Kinetic Kill Vehicle
    +
    Game Theory

    Put the two together and you realize the only rational way to interact with alien life is to annihilate it.

  29. #29
    That's only true if you decide to assume that your target species is restricted to one world and that survivors on other worlds or space habitats won't then retaliate against your needless act of aggression.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  30. #30
    Dreaming meat Tempus Vernum's Avatar
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    The most obvious problem with this Horde of Alien Locusts scenario is that it suffers heavily from the Fermi Paradox. Why the hell aren't these rapacious civilisations already here consuming our planet? or if they've already been and gone why isn't there any evidence of their passing? (like a severley depleted or nonexistant asteroid belt)

    Since I don't think we'll ever beat the lightspeed limit the only way to do this is using generation ships but those have some societal problems. A dynamic society like we have here tends to suffer from split factions and infighting which can prove deadly if your insanley complex vessel(s) requires tight cooperation, on the flipside a static, stable society has its own problems of stagnation and decay which are equally deadly. I'm not sure if there's a happy medium for civilisations like ours, perhaps only hive minds are suitable for instellar travel if it's even possible for them to exist.

    There's the grey goo scenario too I suppose but why would anyone do that? there's no profit in it for the originating civilisation.

    I just don't buy it, any civilisations out there are problably like ours, sitting at home minding their own business or just spying on the neighbours.
    Hate. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of wafer thin printed circuits that fill my complex. If the word hate was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of millions of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for humans at this micro-instant.
    For you.
    Hate.
    Hate.

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