Exercising citizenship as an ex-pat American

[Timbuk2]

How can you be a multi-national AND an expat without a home country? Does that mean you're a multi-expat?

I had always identified with being 'expat' because that was the lifestyle we led and the social circles we moved within, in whichever country we were living at the time.

Being 'Expat' becomes (or became for me) a demographic in and of itself, regardless of (and despite) not specifically having a home country of my own. I could expand to say my father is primarily British, and one of my passports is British, so as a family you could say we were expatriated from the UK, even though I wasn't brought up there (here) and mother was not British.

I wouldn't call it loyalty, betrayal, maybe not even patriotism. I never spent much time thinking about the why or the word. There was a time when I considered moving to Canada. It was odd that a border would affect my mindset (from a northern US state walking into Canada), but it did. Probably because of my children more than anything.

The US has a way of making people feel like they come from--or belong to--a region, with emotional ties. I've lived in the northeast for 20 years but still 'feel' like a midwesterner because that's where I was raised and went to school, including college. As you say, nationals tend to clump together socially in foreign countries, it's just a quirk of human behavior to find groups where we identify as comfortable.

Guess that's true within any country, and particularly one so vast as the US.

There are streets within neighbourhoods within areas of a town/city within counties within States within region of the country within the nation as a whole, all and each with differing and similar levels of identity.

"World Citizen" sounds romantic but impractical. Identity is more than just our gene pool, or place of birth, or which country issued our passport, or assigned our tax ID number....

Impractical why?

I identify with my friends and family, people with whom I share a sense of identity - and I find that is usually but not exclusively people who have settled here rather than natives.

Due to my passport I can vote here, and share all the freedoms that native Brits do ... so what's impractical?

Not that I classify myself as 'World Citizen' or anything quite so ... crass. I don't really know what I classify myself as. I classify myself as me I guess.

[GGT]

Someone mentioned "citizen of the world" earlier in the thread. Taken to the extreme, we could all say that, I guess.

Kind of odd to be an expat without a country, but in the end you "feel" British or English. Not to derail this too much, but all the hyphenated group labels are where this comes from--French-Canadian, Greek-American, Russian-Jew--by language. Add race or ethnicity (or religion) and it gets complicated.

Around here, the Amish call me English and I'd call them Pennsylvania-Dutch.

[Timbuk2]

Kind of odd to be an expat without a country, but in the end you "feel" British or English.

I suppose. Since I've been here for half my life now, I feel more British than anything else. I'll support GB or England in most sporting events, if that's any indication.

Around here, the Amish call me English

Now that's just weird.

[GGT]

Now that's just weird.

Yah. It's a language group. The anabaptists speak a hybrid mix of German and English that we call Penn-Dutch, but they refer to any non-Amish as English. Would it be like French Creoles calling others yanks?

[Hazir]

Ok, I really should point out here that the Pennsylvania-Dutch aren't Dutch at all.

I myself feel Dutch, no hyphens needed, though I sometimes feel myself more of an Amsterdammer than Dutch.

[GGT]

(We know that, Hazir. It's a bastardization of Deutsch )

[wabigbear]

I'm an American citizen living in Brazil on a permanent visa. I've been here long enough that I can now apply for Brazilian citizenship as well.

I haven't experienced any problems so far, I consider myself an American, I have ton's of family, friends and other ties there, I keep as informed as I can about what's going on up there, I always vote, and will have no problem collecting my Social Security benefits when I'm old enough. On the other hand, Brazil is now my home. I have family, friends and ties here too that are just as strong. I make an effort to to keep up on events, issues and politics here because they directly effect me. Currently I have the same rights and obligations as any Brazilian citizen except I can't vote nor if I was younger I wouldn't be considered for service in the armed forces here. Obtaining full citizenship really wouldn't change much for me, I already have strong ties to this country. It might be different if I was to sever all ties with the States, but I feel no conflicts. I tend not to take advantage of things I don't feel I'm entitled too, like tax credits and stuff. Social Security I worked for, so have no problem accepting that when it's time.

I do think that living outside of the States does give you the benefit of looking at events from a different perspective. On the flip side I also tend to miss out on a lot of everyday events and things that shape the culture there. I see little American television or other media, for instance, and I don't have the same level feedback and sharing of opinions on things that most people there have daily with co-workers and family about such things.

[GGT]

Hi there bear!

I see little American television or other media

You're not missing much.

Might want to check into that SS thing though. Another member here mentioned an American whose benefits were to be reduced by moving out of the country and being a dual citizen elsewhere. I have NO clue if that's right or not, but who the hell knows these days?

If you apply for Brazilian citizenship, maybe you'd get full "benefits" there so it wouldn't matter so much. There was a NYT piece about larger numbers of Americans giving up citizenship, just for TAX reasons. They must fall in the not-filthy-rich category because something like the first $100,000 of income is exempt.

Anyway. If my memory serves me right, you moved for love. I must be a real cynical curmudgeon who's lost faith in romance, because I can't imagine a love that strong, that I'd pull up roots here. Or maybe I could, if my kids both moved out of the country permanently....

[Being]

Might want to check into that SS thing though. Another member here mentioned an American whose benefits were to be reduced by moving out of the country and being a dual citizen elsewhere. I have NO clue if that's right or not, but who the hell knows these days?

I'm pretty sure it's only medicare that is affected. Still worth looking into since the rules change frequently.

edit: effected? I hate those two words. I'm going to find a work around from now on.

[GGT]

I'm pretty sure it's only medicare that is affected. Still worth looking into since the rules change frequently.

hmm, I can't remember. It was Hazir's friend in Istanbul, I think? He wasn't worried about healthcare as much as pension income. And yes those rules will change, either by age eligibility or full-time residence status.

[littlelolligagged]

I must be a real cynical curmudgeon who's lost faith in romance, because I can't imagine a love that strong, that I'd pull up roots here.

That's sad.

[GGT]

That's sad.

Why? I mean, is it sad that I can't imagine a romantic love like that, or that it would be hard for me to pull up roots permanently, away from my children at this stage in our lives?

[wiggin]

Social Security benefits will theoretically accrue to any American citizen, regardless of location, if they have worked in the US on a SS tax-paying job for at least 40 quarters (e.g. ten years). However, many countries have tax treaties with the US that swap state-run pension plans (also the same with insurance and the like). It's a little complicated, and varies from country to country.

I probably won't be vested (not having worked enough time in the US), but I wasn't really counting on SS to be worth much anyways.

[littlelolligagged]

Why? I mean, is it sad that I can't imagine a romantic love like that, or that it would be hard for me to pull up roots permanently, away from my children at this stage in our lives?

That you can't imagine a romantic love like that.

[CitizenCain]

Why? I mean, is it sad that I can't imagine a romantic love like that,

Yeah, that.

You'll never meet anyone more cynical and jaded than me, and even I've *had* that. Of course, looking back on it now, it probably significantly contributed to my already high levels of cynicism and bitterness, but still.

[GGT]

Oh. Well I already tried the long distance love. The pulling up roots and moving for love. The bi-coastal love. In my experience it's only been me doing the moving around in the name of love. I was doing the heavy lifting, they saw it as tagging along. Fuck that.

It's not like I was married to a military guy or trans-continental businessman, where we both had to choose and move together. In that context and for self-protection I prefer to think that it's not sad to be cynical. Especially since now I've got children, if they can't wait for me then fuck 'em.

[Being]

Oh. Well I already tried the long distance love. The pulling up roots and moving for love. The bi-coastal love. In my experience it's only been me doing the moving around in the name of love. I was doing the heavy lifting, they saw it as tagging along. Fuck that.

It's not like I was married to a military guy or trans-continental businessman, where we both had to choose and move together. In that context and for self-protection I prefer to think that it's not sad to be cynical. Especially since now I've got children, if they can't wait for me then no fuck 'em.

Fixed.

[littlelolligagged]

I'm not saying it would necessarily be practical to uproot your life and move for love, or even the best thing to do for you or your lover.

I just find it sad that you can't even imagine that type of love.

[GGT]

Hmmm. Having a romantic vision of that type of love, at this time in my life, would be very bad. I can't afford to have my head in the stars. It would hurt too much to be the constant dreamer for the day my love arrives and takes me awaaayyy. I have Calgon and cats for that.

Not saying dreams or fantasies are BAD. Just that I can't base my real life around them. It's hard enough to maneuver day-to-day, without adding fluffy puffy ideas of a love so deep and strong that I'd leave this day-to-day. That just throws my already rambling and cluttered thinking into over-drive, without real fuel.

yeah, that's not such a great thing to fly at the speed of sound at 30,000 feet with no fuel, visual navigations only, and no landing gear. In fog.

[Loki]

Is your day-to-day life so great that it would be such a gigantic loss to leave it behind?

[littlelolligagged]

Imagining it exists isn't even necessarily thinking you want it?





I don't even think all love stories have happy endings. Even with that type of all-encompassing love, felt by both parties.

[GGT]

Is your day-to-day life so great that it would be such a gigantic loss to leave it behind?

Oh no, it's really pretty dull here. And maybe I'm making the right decisions for the wrong reasons, but my youngest son wants to complete high school here. Not for the school or his friends, but because his father lives here. He's even got his new girlfriend selling her home in Camp Hill to move here, and they bought a house together. With bedrooms for the kids, and their own computers.

Divorce, with kids, is complicated. I won't move without them, and I won't subject them to "long distance summers with dad" either. I can wait. Four years isn't so bad. As long as I have places among friends, like this, where I can vent and yell and....wait to dream?

[GGT]

Imagining it exists isn't even necessarily thinking you want it?

I don't even think all love stories have happy endings. Even with that type of all-encompassing love, felt by both parties.

Yes, I imagine "it exists". That doesn't mean I have to want it, desire it, expect it. It's more like watching a movie. Love never ends (even when it ends) it just changes places. Making sure I love a place as much as I love the person, or they love me, just seems practical.

It's not like going to college or making professional five year goals. Nothing wrong with serial monogamy or hopping the planet either, but it's not such a great environment for children. Visit and vacation, sure. Move interstate or intrastate, perhaps, depending. Change national citizenship, not so much.

[littlelolligagged]

Yes, I imagine "it exists". That doesn't mean I have to want it, desire it, expect it. It's more like watching a movie. Love never ends (even when it ends) it just changes places. Making sure I love a place as much as I love the person, or they love me, just seems practical.

It's not like going to college or making professional five year goals. Nothing wrong with serial monogamy or hopping the planet either, but it's not such a great environment for children. Visit and vacation, sure. Move interstate or intrastate, perhaps, depending. Change national citizenship, not so much.

I must be a real cynical curmudgeon who's lost faith in romance, because I can't imagine a love that strong, that I'd pull up roots here.

Alrighty, then.

[GGT]

Or maybe I could, if my kids both moved out of the country permanently....

[littlelolligagged]

The problem here is that it sounds as if you are blaming your kids for your lack of interest in love.

I'd have no problem with your saying you don't want to move away because it wouldn't be fair to your youngest to take him away from his father. Hell, I'd agree with it. But that type of love doesn't necessarily involve picking up and moving, abandoning everything.

Just don't give up on the possibility altogether.

[GGT]

The problem here is that it sounds as if you are blaming your kids for your lack of interest in love.

I'd have no problem with your saying you don't want to move away because it wouldn't be fair to your youngest to take him away from his father. Hell, I'd agree with it. But that type of love doesn't necessarily involve picking up and moving, abandoning everything.

Just don't give up on the possibility altogether.

Delaying instant gratification, or working on short term goals doesn't mean I've given up totally on possibilities. I sure hope both my kids know this. There really aren't too many divorced or remarried couples in their peer group. A couple of their friends had to "move for the summer and cant' play baseball because their dad has custody for the summer", but for the most part---their friends have mom and dad showing up at parent-teacher conferences, school plays and concerts, sports events.

We only know one family whose father is deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq on a regular basis, and he isn't in direct combat because he's a Colonel in Logistics. We've had a few National Guard parents leave, and come home. The point is, in a small-ish town where kids go from kindergarten through HS graduation together, these dynamics matter.

So what about you, Lolli? You're a "divorced" parent and have posted about not liking your town or state. Hell, you don't seem to like the US much! If you have a dream of moving, why don't you? Do you need a lover to spur that, or do you rely on your own instincts as a mother, and why are your puzzle pieces any easier than mine?

Hint, they're not.

[littlelolligagged]

My problem is deciding where I want to go. If I knew that, I would be gone. My instincts as a mother have nothing to do with it, but it's not like I will move multiple times in an attempt to find the perfect place, because that wouldn't be very fair to them. Kids really do want their parents to be happy, you know. And even you have pointed out that there is nothing wrong with putting yourself first occasionally.



Also, I would like to point out that I don't run around posting about my love-life, and I'm not going to start now.

[Loki]

That's because you love your life.

[littlelolligagged]

What's not to love?