LOL, just seen this quote from a recent speech
So Gordon hasn't been spreading these lies himself? They were unauthorised? He's said them in speeches. Oops.Originally Posted by Gordon Brown
LOL, just seen this quote from a recent speech
So Gordon hasn't been spreading these lies himself? They were unauthorised? He's said them in speeches. Oops.
The Tories' obvious heartland is the posh, in the wealthy areas around london, and Labour gets its votes in northern industrial towns due to tradition and history - but i dont understand how the scottish vote affects that?
Yeah much better. All three did well, i thought. Cameron still struggling a bit in what used to be considered his natural strength. Brown did amazingly well given that we all know he is a terrible, terrible public speaker. I thought he played well to his strengths - as prime minister he actually knows what its like to deal with the heads of other states and balance britains position in europe and deal with terror threats. That "get real" thing did, i think, put some perspective on Cleggs otherwise nice-sounding phrases.
Thought he did pretty well with the iraq and afghanistan thing too - managed to sidestep it pretty well. I expected him to get a bit lynched.
Cameron was better but has an obvious weakness in that he is completely anti-europe and has aligned himself with mentalist far-right parties.
(however im pretty pro-europe so that might be my predudices talking)
He did well on the more home-based stuff and the challenge of Browns lying leaflets was brilliantly handled.
Didnt he try to say that because its not in the tory manifesto, it seemed likely to be true. I havent read any news today for confirmation but looking at the body language, he seeemed triumphant when he brought it up and then really quickly deflated and subdued after cameron said it wasnt true at all.Although the big gaffe potentially seems to have been Gordon Brown called out on a lie. Labour leaflets across the country have been targetting the elderly claiming that the Tories would remove free bus passes for the elderly etc: Cameron said that's simply not true and said it was a "lie - not often that a politician uses the word 'lie'", Brown said he never approved any of those claims.
Hmmm, be a bit embarrassing if it turns out he actually did. Like the fact the claim is in his own personal leaflet for his own constituency? Or the fact that its in Labour's Party Election Broadcast on TV. I wonder if he was involved approving that?
"Son," he said without preamble, "never trust a man who doesn't drink, because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.
Actually almost all of it IS in the Tory manifesto. The only thing missing was eye tests, but Cameron confirmed they wouldn't be cut either. Don't know if that might have been making policy on the hoof.
Of course it doesn't say in the Labour manfesto that the won't eat babies and fry old people either. But it did actually say in the Tory one that they'd keep those benefits safe anyway. Oops.
Watched a bit of the debate on CSPAN last night. The set and podiums looked like it was 1970. Very old fashioned looking. Was surprised to hear them all saying Old People and Old People Homes, another outdated thing. And what's up with Brown's annoying facial tic, like he's sucking in his lower lip or curling it over his teeth at the end of every sentence? Clegg is telegenic and came across as articulate and passionate.
Most of all, I LOVED hearing those British accents and speech patterns, rapid riposte, very nice and civilized over all. Though I don't know a damn thing about the politics, the exchange on immigration was interesting.
Brown has a known facial tic.
There have been varying medical opinions and diagnoses around t'web as to what exactly it is.
And the debates on immigration always annoy me. Politicians here know that we need immigration and that immigration is important to a growing economy, and yet pander to the country's stupid element (immigrants are stealing our jobs, Daily Fail readers etc ) by promising immigration caps, stronger restrictions on immigration, pointless citizenry tests etc.
Can't say I've watched Brown do any public speaking, but that tic was very noticeable and distracting.
The immigration 'debate' looked like three guys describing various ways to keep people out, get them out, or exploit them for tax dollars. The part on ID cards would've been a bigger point of contention in the US.
(We've got some of the same problems with "illegals" and fights on ID cards, profiling. Arizona is trying some stupid stuff with that.)
ID cards are a bit of a bone of contention.
Majority of People in this country are against it, see it at worst as a way for the government to monitor and keep track of people, big brother interfering type thing, and at best unnecessary.
But much of the rest of Western Europe has ID cards and has had them for a long time.
I don't see the problem with them, I believe it makes social administration easier, both on a local and national level.
I believe our cloggies here have them, so may be able to opine more on their benefits, or lack thereof.
It's important to draw a distinction between the ID card (meaningless piece of plastic) and the giant citizens database (pointless exercise in government intrusion and giant identity theft magnet) associated with it.
I seriously doubt ID cards are going to go ahead, though.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
You forgot 'expensive'
I know it's in the manifesto, I took it to be part of the unsubtle (and not terribly convincing) attempt to distance Cameron from the policies of the Conservative government of our youth.I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not because co-operatives are part of the Tory manifesto
There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
And he decides who to free and who to blame
Oh yeah.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
That suuuuch a yank response, geegee.Watched a bit of the debate on CSPAN last night. The set and podiums looked like it was 1970. Very old fashioned looking. Was surprised to hear them all saying Old People and Old People Homes, another outdated thing. And what's up with Brown's annoying facial tic, like he's sucking in his lower lip or curling it over his teeth at the end of every sentence? Clegg is telegenic and came across as articulate and passionate.
Most of all, I LOVED hearing those British accents and speech patterns, rapid riposte, very nice and civilized over all. Though I don't know a damn thing about the politics, the exchange on immigration was interesting.
"Needs higher production values, needs more explosions, why arent they fighting, i want the good looking one to be the winner, arent those accents cute"
Rand - I noticed that Cameron was pretty confident on whether he was keeping all those benefits (interestingly quite far from traditional conservative policy right?) and i think thats why Brown dropped it like a hot rock.
What was with his accusing Clegg of being anti-american? I admit ive generally followed the policy of ignoring most things the Lib Dems said because they are never going to be in power, so this is news to me.
Cameron i thought was stuck on immigration between saying basically what both the old-school posh racist tories and the common-man racist plumbers would like to her, that being "hang the darkies", and what all sane people know, that we need immigration.
As Tim pointed out, there is an element of pandering here, and i does make you wonder if more direct democracy really is the answer to any problems. Most people know funk all about politics and international relations and economics and whatnot - thats why we elect politicians to deal with it.
"Son," he said without preamble, "never trust a man who doesn't drink, because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.
Well, I am a yank.That suuuuch a yank response, geegee.
"Needs higher production values, needs more explosions, why arent they fighting, i want the good looking one to be the winner, arent those accents cute"
But I didn't say I wanted fighting, I liked the civility! And yes the accents are cute. Sexy, actually.
Immigration is one issue I hate being politicised. Generally as part of being a right-winger who detests everything the Daily Fail stands for
Personally I'm open to more immigration. I had the wonderful opportunity of growing up in a foreign country and wouldn't want to deny that to people. Also as an employer, my personal experience is that economic migrants are some of the most hard-working people there are. Just started a Polish immigrant these week incidentally, she's doing a wonderful job after just 3 days so far - very good work ethic. Contrasted with lazy, job-shy, benefit-seeking, what's-in-it-for-me, I-don't-want-to-lose-my-benefits, local scroungers.
Yesterday Labour 'spin doctor' Alastair Campbell kept going on, on Twitter, that Labour would be getting a big celebrity endorsement today. Apparently someone so big he was John Lennon's hero.
Who could it be? Someone old obviously, Paul McCartney's alive a lefty and knew Lennon - but not exactly fair to describe him as Lennon's hero. Cliff Richard?
No. It was Elvis. They got a celebrity endorsement from an Elvis impersonator.
Seriously: WTF?
Isn't it funny how, when people can't make a simple joke, it starts to look like they can't take anything seriously?
On the plus side, as an American I am happy about this particular fragment of cultural imperialism.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Ha. Awesome.
"Son," he said without preamble, "never trust a man who doesn't drink, because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.
LOL!
Just one question, who here actually lives in England? Wouldn't this argument be kind of pointless if none of us lived in England? I mean i expect the members here to complain after he wins or loses, but it just irks me that since we're not (or won't) in some cases. We lose the privilege to complain.
How you doin'? Oh crap, i mean - How do you do?Well, I am a yank.
Me, Spawnie, Gogo, Randy, Steely, Decoy, Timmy, Unheard Of. Have i missed anyone?
Xaero1 is the only other Brit I can think of.
There were a few more at CC that hadn't been on in quite a while that haven't made the transition. Boris the Fish springs to mind.
Ah, i forgot about dearest Xaero1. Sorry!
So its all died off a bit for a couple of days it seems, so ill add a little question for you all.
I had pretty much decided i wasnt going to vote tory on the basis that they are profound eurosceptics and its a policy that will definately be acted upon. I am the opposite of this.
However, ive just got the campaign leaflet for my constituency (beverly and holderness) from the current (conservative) MP and it seems that locally, he has done a damn good job. The only thing i personally dont agree with that he has done seems to be the will of most of the other people here, so im willing to let it slide.
So - for what do i vote? My local MP and his useful actions, or the party whos national actions will best reflect how i want the country as a whole to go?
"Son," he said without preamble, "never trust a man who doesn't drink, because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.
Both are important. If lived in Birkenhead, I'd be mighty tempted to vote for Frank Field. One of the advantages of our democracy over European PR systems is we are voting for an individual and not just the party. But the party is the main issue. I wouldn't rule either out.
On a general note though, I wouldn't agree with you regarding Europe. Some of the most arch-europhiles are Tories, eg Ken Clarke the shadow Business Secretary and one of the very few people left from Major's cabinet who'd have a place in Cameron's cabinet were he to win. You don't get much more europhile than Clarke. Nor do I think its going to be much of an issue anyway: what specifically are you worried about? There's no new treaties up for discussion, no discussion regarding the euro, at this election its all a rather moot subject.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/wo...9brown.html?hp
This is a big fucking deal....LONDON — Maybe it was proof of the maxim that a gaffe is when a politician tells the truth. Or maybe it was evidence that Prime Minister Gordon Brown, for all he tries to be nice, might actually be kind of mean.
Or maybe it was a fatal blow to the Labour government’s chances of staying in power after next Thursday’s election.
However you look at it, Mr. Brown’s irascible characterization of a member of the public as a “bigoted woman,” caught on a live microphone after the two had discussed immigration policy, dominated the political discussion on Wednesday and proved seriously unfortunate for him and for his party.
God he's a prat.
I don't get it. Could a British person explain this to us? Is this an issue of you can't call someone a bigot if they're a woman or a minority, or an issue of "if you disagree with me, you're bigot" on Brown's part?
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Neither can I really, I don't understand why he even bothered to apologize. I think pretty much everybody would have let off steam after having talked to somebody who seems to have a problem letting other people finish their sentences. Also, what she said about immigration sounded iffy to say the least.
I doubt any of his (potential) voters would have minded much if he'd told it like this. That woman wasn't the kind of person that invoked warm fluffy grandmother feelings.
Congratulations America
I think its actually only a massive deal in the political arena. Most people know that everyone is different in public and in private. Still, this might lose him the election.
Anyway, he must hear 300000 retards every day saying essentialy the same thing - "why are all these darkies/muslims/poles in my area, blah blah blah?" Whenever anyone says that to me (e.g. taxi drivers), i immediately begin to suspect them of being racist as well. Its not usually long before they hit me with a "taking our jobs and our women".
"Son," he said without preamble, "never trust a man who doesn't drink, because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.
Isn't the fact that he's a complete failure as a PM enough reason for him to loose already?
Congratulations America
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