And high heels, too!
And high heels, too!
We were talking about whether or not a ban could be effective, not about immigration.Originally Posted by GGT
Congratulations America
You also think the police should go by what a battered wife states when deciding on when to act or not against her abusive husband?And high heels, too!
Congratulations America
Nah, I just honed in on your suggestion that this (banning burqas) was about emancipating women from restrictive things. For their own good.
No, it's about putting an end to their husbands abusing them.
Congratulations America
Do you actually think this law will do that? Because in the realm of "how Islamic fundies abuse their women," it seems to me that making them cover their faces in public barely qualifies as abuse.
Really, at least the face-covered chicks didn't get fucked to death on their weeding night, 3 weeks before their 11th birthday.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
I know you have a huge boner for immigrants for some reason, this'd be more up Lewk's alley, but one of the fun things these Mohammedan rascals have thought up is smuggling in several wives and only letting the authorities know one exists; it's easy to pass one off as another when they all look like featureless lumps of cloth that're barely allowed to make noises. Now I obviously don't have the kind of experience you do when it comes to maintaining a rape dungeon, but it seems to me this'd be a prime situation to treat these women pretty much as you please without risk of getting caught or reprimanded in any way.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Well, don't they achieve that anyway by not letting their women-property leave the house unescorted by a man? You don't even need the rape dungeon and chains and the like when your women-properties won't go outside if they get the chance (of course, the dungeon and chains and torture toys do make the whole rape experience more fun, but they're not strictly required).
I mean, I get it - why the Low Peoples are doing this, and what they're trying to accomplish (or claim they're trying to accomplish, anyway), but I just don't see how this is going actually accomplish anything, except for maybe getting a bunch of mall Santas arrested years from now. Seems like a completely do-nothing law that's just political pandering and may or may not come back to bite them down the road once the public's forgotten (or chooses to ignore) the original intent of the law.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Hell no. I chill easily.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
The idea that this law was made out of some concern over the repression of these women is laughable.
You can wear a blanket.
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
Probably not. It'll be mistaken for a burka, and he'll get throw in jail naked... which seems like an undesirable fate, even for a gay guy.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
No, this law alone will not end the abuse, but it's part of a whole range of measures that need to be taken for it to end.
You, and the average American can not understand how these people live in Europe; they don't work, they don't contribute to society. All they do is collect their Welfare and Child support and bitch about the society that's giving them the handouts.
The atmosphere in Europe is not at all that these laws are introduced to do nothing. People will expect them to be enforced, because they are fed up with these leeches.
Congratulations America
We have a term for fabrics you wear, Lolli. We call them CLOTHES!
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Meanwhile, other people can wear whatever they want. Still. Its almost as if legislating what people can wear would be kind of... fascist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-rights.html
True. This law seems purely about pandering to anti-immigration/terrorism groups of knuckleheads.
Hazir - i recognise you are close to this culture and as such are probably not just being a mindless racist, but all your talk of "these people" and "these leeches" is rediculous. You dont legislate for the purpose of controlling the actions of a VERY small number of citizens just because they dont dress how you want them to. The abuse issue is another matter entirely. This law is being raised purely and simply to please idiots who see in the veil the most obvious (and least threatening?) symbol of the things the scare them/the things they want to use as a scapegoat for all their problems.
"Son," he said without preamble, "never trust a man who doesn't drink, because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.
I know am talking about a very small group of people at all. But I also have a pretty clear picture what these people are about, both from my professional as my private experiences. I do see them as a big problem for society as a whole and I do think society would be a lot better off with their anti-social culture being curtailed. I think I might have fewer problems with them if they at least would make a living for themselves, but that is also not in the books. They just sit on their fat asses, bitching about the very same people thay pay their welfare and child support.
At the same time I hate people like Wilders here in Holland who with their cheap populism and zero use of brainpower blame all their problems on immigrants.
Congratulations America
How has that worked for you guys in the past?The far right has been on the rise in Euro-land for some years now
Is this true? People can't wear cross necklaces? Pass such a law in parts of the US, you'd think that you might triple the amount of available gold in the world. Except that it's usually gold plating.
It's true for Holland too; people in Holland have got very little tolerance for any religion trying to usurp part of the public sphere. You'd be mistaken to think this is just anti-Islam. It's about all religions. People who want to make headscarves illegal have no qualms about having to swipe out all other religious symbols if that's what it takes.
Here in Amsterdam recently a tramway-driver was sacked because he refused to wear his cross under his shirt.
Congratulations America
But they really aren't, are they? People of any other religion changing their tradition garb? Priests no longer wearing collars? Which, BTW, is a terrible idea, because then how do you know whom to keep your kids the hell away from?
I laughed. And then felt guilty.
We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.
The point was that the object being banned isn't really worn by anyone.
Hope is the denial of reality
Heh. I can make jokes like this. I was raised Catholic, until I realized that the ***holes were all about their power. Imagine my shock when the abuse coverups started being uncovered. [/sarcasm]
I don't know, you hardly ever see them. The last time I saw a person who I could recognize as a priest was in Istanbul. Imams you typically can't recognize at all neither in Istanbul nor in Amsterdam.
And Loki, I don't care if it's one or one thousand, I don't want to contribute to their life-style through my taxes.
Congratulations America
No, I understand completely - we have black people (and Democrats) in America for that function.
Seriously, where do you think those stereotypes come from?
The solution isn't to instill dress code requirements in the law... it's to take away the social services these people are abusing. In America, at least, you're not even eligible to apply for (let alone receive) any government benefits until you've got a Green Card. Hence, no problem with burkaed immigrants collecting welfare while bitching about America. I know that's not "enlightened" and "compassionate" like Europe, or is a violation of the basic human right to get money for nothing... or whatever... but if you ask me, it's a better solution to your problem than imposing dress codes. (What the fuck is your continent? A bloody high school? Because that's the last place in life one should encounter legally enforced dress codes, IMO.)
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Because they already live in your countries, with many practically living in a parallel country within your borders.
So why not take away the welfare? Giving people handouts with one hand (so they don't have to work among the native population and change their habits) while trying to legislate away their culture with another is a waste.
My haircutters are Lebanese, one Druze and one Christian. They often employ other Lebanese. At one point they had a Lebanese Shia woman working there. One day she came in after having been married to a Pakistani for a year demanding to wear a veil at work. The owners said no; they felt it would make customers uncomfortable and be kinda stupid for her to cover her hair in a haircutting place. So they let her go.
Sometimes it seems like the "reality in Europe" is that such a woman would never had a job in the first place, as her family would get abundant benefits to just plop down and have some kids.
Yes, that is the sad reality. And I totally would agree with stripping them of all their unearned benefits. I am pretty certain that given the choice between being homeless and hungry and their stupid dress codes they'd be able to make the right choice themselves.
Congratulations America
Stopped reading here; thread over.
So it's okay to strong-arm Ching-Ping China-man because he's a Johnny Foreigner, but using force against your own citizens (or resident immigrants, at any rate) is a no-no? That's a funny opinion from a Yank given your penal system etc
Not too good, some of humanity survived! Better luck the next time 'round, huh?
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
As a side-note I only live in one country.
I still don't see where those masses should come from. There are masses of Muslims, true, but only a tiny number of female Muslims within Europe wear burqas.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
The same has happened in the UK, people in the workplace being told to wear their cross under their shirt/blouse.
But laws and requirements in the workplace fall within a whole different sphere than laws relating to just walking down the street.
I have no issue with employers (public or private) banning burqas and crosses.
I am ill-at-ease banning burqas and crosses from anyone just going about their business walking down the street.
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