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Thread: Oh the Irony

  1. #91
    It will be a feat of skill if BP can get its oil containments to work. An review of "Deepwater Blowouts" in 1999 by the U.S. Minerals Management Service said such an approach was "impractical." The Times article did not describe BP devices accurately. They are not "domes" but tall metal boxes with concrete weights.

    WWL TV of New Orleans reports that the boxes are being built at Wild Well Control, an experienced well-control contractor, in Port Fourchon, LA. The bases measure 14 by 24 feet, they are 40 feet tall, and they weigh 98 tons. While that may seem massive, they must be suspended on tubing a mile long extending from the sea surface, so it is not at all clear how they can be kept upright and in place when there are strong underwater currents and surface winds. See www.wwltv.com...

    The containment boxes are the equivalent of anchoring a metal box the size of a half-gallon milk carton with a 50-pound concrete shoe and then angling it into a lake from a 100-foot long garden hose, trying to place it and hold it over a rock the size of a thimble. If BP manages this feat, it must then pump at least a hundred gallons a minute from each box, continuously separating oil from water, and keep that running until its relief wells plug the blowout.


    http://community.nytimes.com/comment...s/04spill.html

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    That's because you guys don't have cities. You all live in quaint little alpine villages, sipping hot cocoa.

    edit: I just checked. Calling Basel a city and not just a large town is questionable. It doesn't even break 200k.
    That's city proper, the aglomeration has about 830k and reaches into Germany and France.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  3. #93
    Want to help clean up the spill?

    Donate your hair.

    Matter of Trust
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    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    I just thought this morning, that I should shave my armpits.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    That's city proper, the aglomeration has about 830k and reaches into Germany and France.
    Pfeh, by that criteria I've been living in cities all my life, rather than cow-towns and sleepy college towns.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Pfeh, by that criteria I've been living in cities all my life, rather than cow-towns and sleepy college towns.
    Most Cities with a capital C have more people in than my nation; can't say I envy them, though
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Pfeh, by that criteria I've been living in cities all my life, rather than cow-towns and sleepy college towns.
    Well there is no standard. It's still funny to call Basel a town for me because of the rivalry between our cities.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  8. #98
    Wow. What an amazingly gigantic fuck up this is. I wonder:

    A. How many of these oil platforms are in danger of exploding, burning, sinking and spewing oil all over

    and

    B. How many are without any functional way to turn the flow of oil off after A? WTF.

    If this set up is standard practice, I really have to say "Jesus Christ, does anybody bother to do anything right? Fuck." And if this is just an amazingly unlikely accident, well, same as the OP I guess.
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  9. #99
    Lost track of all the postings, anyone say anything yet about how BP is being accused of drilling beyond the limit it was allowed?

    We are still accusing BP right? I know they said it wasn't their fault and all.

  10. #100
    Yeah, I read that. Unconfirmed report from a survivor, BP was fast to say it was a bogus claim. Lawyers are crawling all over this.

    Most of our local seafood comes from Baltimore, Carolinas or Texas. But there are stories in the paper about small operations losing 10-20% of their Gulf shrimp inventory and people wiped out their stock days ago.

  11. #101
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Want to help clean up the spill?

    Donate your hair.

    Matter of Trust
    Don't bother.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  12. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post


    I'd read that nylon stockings were being used to make booms stuffed with human and dog hair, but they'd run out of hosiery.

  13. #103
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Wow. What an amazingly gigantic fuck up this is. I wonder:

    A. How many of these oil platforms are in danger of exploding, burning, sinking and spewing oil all over
    A lot. According to the newspaper, regulations are in place but never checked, so they are ignored. Apparently only Norway and Australia actually check rigs to see if they follow regulations.
    and

    B. How many are without any functional way to turn the flow of oil off after A? WTF.

    If this set up is standard practice, I really have to say "Jesus Christ, does anybody bother to do anything right? Fuck." And if this is just an amazingly unlikely accident, well, same as the OP I guess.
    Dunno about that.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  14. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    A lot. According to the newspaper, regulations are in place but never checked, so they are ignored. Apparently only Norway and Australia actually check rigs to see if they follow regulations.
    andDunno about that.
    Plus Brazil. Norway and Brazil require (and check) that deep off-shore drillers have that $500,000 cap device for a worst-case scenario contingency plan. In other words, BP only does the best thing when forced by law. If left to their own decisions, they go for the cheapest short term plan. More profits that way, or so they thought.

  15. #105
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Maybe Brazil and not Australia then I don't have the paper here.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  16. #106
    The containment box failed, big surprise there. 3 weeks later and there is still oil flowing into the gulf.

    Is it just me, or had anyone else expected some sort of plan to have already been drafted, tested, and ready to go for when one of these oil rigs did finally collapse. Especially in such a heavy hurricane region like the Gulf.

  17. #107
    They were too busy partying. Sex, drugs, crude and money.

    I also read that Transocean stands to make a profit on its insurance claim, something about being overinsured, or the spread between replacement cost and policy max (?) That doesn't sound right.

  18. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    The containment box failed, big surprise there. 3 weeks later and there is still oil flowing into the gulf.

    Is it just me, or had anyone else expected some sort of plan to have already been drafted, tested, and ready to go for when one of these oil rigs did finally collapse. Especially in such a heavy hurricane region like the Gulf.
    What? And cut into profits? Haha. The plan has always been to let the taxpayers take care of it. Sapitalism.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  19. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    The containment box failed, big surprise there. 3 weeks later and there is still oil flowing into the gulf.

    Is it just me, or had anyone else expected some sort of plan to have already been drafted, tested, and ready to go for when one of these oil rigs did finally collapse. Especially in such a heavy hurricane region like the Gulf.
    I'm sure they have a system that, should a storm be forecasted, they can use to close the well head in case the storm destroys the platform. But probably that system blew up, burned and sank with the platform. Now, why nobody planned for that eventually is probably related to the Money.
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  20. #110
    Is everyone disgusted with this mess yet?


    Transocean asking to limit liability for spill

    Transocean Ltd. (RIG 66.80, +0.11, +0.17%) , the owner and operator of the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig that burned and sank last month, unleashing a massive oil leak into the Gulf of Mexico, will Thursday file in federal court a petition to limit its liability to just under $27 million, according to a person familiar with the company's plans and a copy of the filing seen by Dow Jones Newswires.

    The world's biggest offshore driller is filing the request in the U.S. District Court in Houston under a century-and-a-half-old law originally aimed at helping U.S. ship owners compete with foreign-flagged vessels. While the company may not succeed in limiting its financial liability, the filing could give Transocean an edge in what could be a lengthy, multipronged legal battle against claims for damages from the accident that killed 11 workers.

    Dozens of lawsuits have already been filed against the drilling contractor in state and federal courts. BP PLC (BP 48.18, +0.08, +0.17%) was leasing the rig from Transocean and is responsible for the costs of cleaning up the massive oil leak sprung by the accident that is threatening the environment and economy of the Gulf shore, according to government officials. Representatives from BP, Transocean and Halliburton (HAL 29.11, +0.10, +0.35%) , which supplied components used in the drilling process, came under fire from lawmakers in Congressional hearings this week, during which representatives from each company attempted to stave off blame for the disaster. It is unclear what the ultimate cost of the spill will be for each of these companies.

    The accident and subsequent oil spill "were not caused or contributed to, done, occasioned and/or incurred by any fault, negligence, unseaworthiness, or lack of due care on the part of the petitioners, or anyone for whom petitioners are or at any material time were responsible," Transocean's filing says.

    Under the Limitation of Liability Act of 1851, a vessel owner is liable only for the post-accident value of the vessel and cargo, so long as the owner can show he or she had no knowledge of negligence in the accident, maritime lawyers say. The law was created in the days before modern insurance and communications technology, to help U.S. shipping businesses compete against foreign ship owners who were protected against claims. Drilling rigs count as vessels under U.S. maritime law, and since "the remains of the…Deepwater Horizon now lay sunken" about a mile deep in the federal waters of the Gulf of Mexico, the value of the rig and its cargo comes to no more than $26,764,083, Transocean claims in the filing. Before the accident, the rig was worth around $650 million.

    Maritime lawyers said the Act very rarely helps companies limit liability. It can, however, allow a defendant to gain some control over the legal process, since a judge could place a stay on all pending litigation, which would then have to be refiled in the federal court where the limitation of liability was sought. Vessel owners routinely seek protection under the Act following accidents at sea, lawyers said.

    "They get to fix the venue and they get to slow everything down," said Kurt Arnold, of Houston-based law firm Arnold & Itkin, who is representing several survivors of the accident. Arnold added that the measure forces the large number of plaintiff lawyers to coordinate among themselves in order to obtain depositions from the defendants, making the process more cumbersome.

    Zug, Switzerland-based Transocean also said it contests any liability arising from claims filed under the Oil Pollution Act of 1990, enacted after 1989's Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska, for damages from the oil emanating from the sea floor. Under the Oil Pollution Act and the British company's contract with Transocean, oil-field owner BP is responsible for paying clean-up costs, and executives of the London-based company have said they will foot the bill and honor legitimate damage claims.

    "We expect that BP will honor that contract," Transocean Chief Executive Steven Newman said last week during a conference call on the company's earnings.

    Limitation of Liability proceedings not only give the petitioners first say in a venue for litigation, but they also keep the case in front of a judge and away from a jury, said David Robertson, a maritime law professor at the University of Texas in Austin. Juries "tend to favor injured human beings over corporate defendants, and it's presumed federal district judges have no such inclinations," Robertson said.

    Transocean's move comes after BP filed a motion last week seeking to have the many lawsuits piling up against it consolidated before a judge in the U.S. District Court in Houston, and after plaintiffs' lawyers also requested that the U.S. Judicial Panel on Multidistrict Litigation consolidate all of the suits seeking class-action status.
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tra...dist=afterbell


    1851 maritime law?

  21. #111
    To be fair, it sorta makes sense, right? If someone rents a UHaul and uses it to bomb a federal building, should UHaul get sued for all its worth?

    The rig was just a thing sitting on the water. BP actually operated the thing, and subcontracted services out to specialists like Halliburton.

  22. #112
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    I imagine most of you have seen this, but here we go anyway - Russia says to nuke it!

    80% success rate, and an excuse to nuke something? I'm having a hard time seeing why this plan shouldn't be implemented immediately.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  23. #113
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    From what I've read, deepwater rigs are just an accident waiting to happen.
    1. The oil shoots out at near boiling temperature. The water at that depth has a temperature of 5 centigrades. Which puts stress on the pipeline.
    2. The pressure at that depth is immense. Stress on the pipeline again.
    3. The platform is only anchored. Stress on the pipeline once again because of simple rig movements.
    4. You have to heat the oil continuously or the natural gas inside the oil will solidify with the water to clathrates due to the pressure, which then act as a bloackage.
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  24. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    I imagine most of you have seen this, but here we go anyway - Russia says to nuke it!

    80% success rate, and an excuse to nuke something? I'm having a hard time seeing why this plan shouldn't be implemented immediately.
    Had not. It's really stunning how many nuclear detonations were conducted by the USSR.

  25. #115
    Days after the explosion I read someone's idea of blowing it up with underwater explosives. Non-nuke. Why not?

  26. #116
    I heard on the news today that 3 scientists doing analysis on the apparent flow in the recently released video independantly concluded that the actual flow is 50k to 100k barrels a day, not the 5k that BP is claiming. I don't have the right words. Can anyone help?
    The Rules
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    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  27. #117
    The right words? Nope, just a bunch of f-bombs laced around words for failure and anger and

    Go go USA #1!

  28. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    I heard on the news today that 3 scientists doing analysis on the apparent flow in the recently released video independantly concluded that the actual flow is 50k to 100k barrels a day, not the 5k that BP is claiming. I don't have the right words. Can anyone help?
    They haven't concluded it. They provided an estimate they believe is more reliable than the one used by BP (probably true). Their whole point is that more reliable tools have to be used before anyone can come up with a conclusion.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  29. #119
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Their whole point is that more reliable tools have to be used before anyone can come up with a conclusion.
    You mean these assholes want us to wait to pass judgment on the incident, until we have some idea of what actually happened?

    They're as bad as BP! We should tar and feather the lot of them now, while we still have the mob mentality on our side!!!
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  30. #120
    And now we're finding out that our regulatory agency, MMS, allowed wells without permits and this was one of them. They also overruled their staff biologists and engineers who raised concerns about the safety and the environmental impact of certain drilling proposals in the gulf. Why are we paying for staff to do in depth analysis?

    U.S. Said to Allow Drilling Without Needed Permits
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

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