Panic, Purge or Patience?

[EyeKhan]

I got b, I was ridiculing the situation where the washed up hippies and people who lived responsibly by b ended up closer to one another in life than the b advocates expected

My demographic doesn't include "washed up hippies." I'm actually Gen X.

So make the thread, Chacha.

Will do. Might have to wait until tomorrow though...

20 years ago I didn't care about the personal finance "truths," old man.

Me neither. I'm old enough to be your older brother, that's about it. (How old do you monkeys think I am anyway? )

Also, I disagree that it ever should have been taught as the way happiNess. Sounds like a great way to be miserable until you retire. Or have your first heart attack.

Due to your confusing grammar, I'm not exactly sure of your point here but buying a house and saving money hasn't made me miserable at all. Losing 75% of the equity in my first house and 40% of the value of my investments has been trying, however.

[Nessus]

My demographic doesn't include "washed up hippies." I'm actually Gen X.

So you grew up in the seventies, or something? That's cool, I guess, gramps, but don't expect us to keep up

[EyeKhan]

So you grew up in the seventies, or something? That's cool, I guess, gramps, but don't expect us to keep up

I was born in 1969, not long before the first moon landing.

[Hazir]

I got b, I was ridiculing the situation where the washed up hippies and people who lived responsibly by b ended up closer to one another in life than the b advocates expected

You seem to be unaware of the generation that hates hippies the most. And they deserve any bit of hatred they get flung at them and more. The hypocracy of that bunch is big enough to remake the definition of the word hypocracy.

By the way; I did relatively well by not heeding what went for 'fiscal prudence' in Holland and I am quite happy seeing where that got me.

[Nessus]

Oh don't worry, I'm blissfully unaware of most things, just ask Low-key!

[EyeKhan]

Oh don't worry, I'm blissfully unaware of most things, just ask Low-key!

Blissful? Hardly.

[Timbuk2]

the definition of the word hypocracy.

Since we're pointing out the definition of the word hypocrisy, we may as well point out its spelling too.

[Nessus]

Blissful? Hardly.

You're not good at this reading stuff, are you

Spoiler:

It's not my lack of knowledge that inhibits my bliss, now is it

[EyeKhan]

You're not good at this reading stuff, are you

Spoiler:

It's not my lack of knowledge that inhibits my bliss, now is it

No. Bliss is a lie.

[GGT]

Are you feeling Panicky, choobs? Do you remember the crash of '87 or were you too busy being 18 years old?

What sucks is this: being conservative and prudent, living within one's means, saving for retirement by following traditional advice, planning and plodding along....only to watch it dwindle and shrink, or make huge highs and lows like a roller coaster. Then to see people who lived high on the hog while turning the markets into a pig-in-a-poke trading BBQ fuckfest get bailed out, at the expense of the saver and the little guy.

[Loki]

This is what happens when you live in a democracy and most of the population is in the latter category.

[EyeKhan]

Are you feeling Panicky, choobs? Do you remember the crash of '87 or were you too busy being 18 years old?

I remember Black Monday. My father was extremely shaken.... I'm not panicky at all. I'm really pissed about the house. I could understand if Dearborn had some kind of run up in property values that got corrected, but it didn't. But I'm far enough away from retirement that the current turmoils will probably end up better for me in the long run. But of course, that's me spouting the old conventional wisdom....

What sucks is this: being conservative and prudent, living within one's means, saving for retirement by following traditional advice, planning and plodding along....only to watch it dwindle and shrink, or make huge highs and lows like a roller coaster. Then to see people who lived high on the hog while turning the markets into a pig-in-a-poke trading BBQ fuckfest get bailed out, at the expense of the saver and the little guy.

Yeah. That.

[Being]

This is what happens when you live in a democracy and most of the population is in the latter category.

Right, because we don't have a Louis and Marie to behead.

[Loki]

You honestly didn't think that a housing market in an area of rapidly increasing unemployment, poor education, and very little chance for the creation of new jobs would collapse?

[CitizenCain]

Yeah. That.

You can't complain about that. Complaining about it is undemocratic, you know. And if there's one thing we've all learned from our politicians, it's that "democracy" is pinnacle of human achievement, the gold standard against which all ideas ought to be measured.

[Being]

You honestly didn't think that a housing market in an area of rapidly increasing unemployment, poor education, and very little chance for the creation of new jobs would collapse?

Why does the area have very little chance for creating new jobs?

[CitizenCain]

Poor education, punitively high taxation, insane regulatory environment...?

Really, you need more?

[Loki]

Why does the area have very little chance for creating new jobs?

Because most people there have a poor education and skills that aren't very useful in a modern economy. They also have unrealistic expectations about salaries (and benefits), and the government is far too involved in the economy.

Poor education, punitively high taxation, insane regulatory environment...?

Really, you need more?

At least two of those three things are a direct consequence of the government's actions, so they can't be bad; only corporations can be bad.

[Being]

Right, absolutely nothing to do with shipping jobs overseas. It's going to be a real shock to U.S. companies when they find their U.S. market unable to afford their foreign produced goods.

[CitizenCain]

Right, absolutely nothing to do with shipping jobs overseas. It's going to be a real shock to U.S. companies when they find their U.S. market unable to afford their foreign produced goods.

I'm still waiting for the residents of California to wake up to the shock that they are not the whole US.

Fuck your uneducated, over-regulated, hippie-infested state. My 70k a year salary will allow me to afford plenty of foreign produced goods that you California idiots can't, because your yearly after-tax income is less than I take home every week, and all my money isn't tied up in a mortgage with 3 million dollars worth of negative equity on a quarter million dollar shack with an ocean-view.

[GGT]

Why can't we point the finger at ALL the Bigs---big gummint and big banks and big business?

The Three Big Pigs. They're all at the trough together, gobbling up the slop they made from our savings, and we keep shoveling their shit.

[CitizenCain]

Why can't we point the finger at ALL the Bigs---big gummint and big banks and big business?

Because association with big business is voluntary, while association with big government is not.

[Loki]

Right, absolutely nothing to do with shipping jobs overseas. It's going to be a real shock to U.S. companies when they find their U.S. market unable to afford their foreign produced goods.

More like poor American productivity. Notice how German manufacturing jobs haven't been disappearing at anywhere the same rate. And please take your protectionist BS to union officials or other morons who don't know the first thing about economics.

[GGT]

Because association with big business is voluntary, while association with big government is not.

That's just not true. I'm forced to play with big oil, big pharma, big ag, big banks, big box stores.....

[CitizenCain]

That's just not true. I'm forced to play with big oil, big pharma, big ag, big banks, big box stores.....

No you're not. Just because it's the best option doesn't make it the only one. You could convert your car to run on natural gas, use generic medications instead of brand name ones, pay more money for crappier produce (local-grown, organic), use a local credit union and only shop at mom and pop stores.

The fact that you don't only illustrates exactly why "big business" got big in the first place - providing better goods and services, cheaper than everyone else.

[Loki]

Shh, everyone knows that big means bad. Heck, they even start with the same letter.

[GGT]

No you're not. Just because it's the best option doesn't make it the only one. You could convert your car to run on natural gas, use generic medications instead of brand name ones, pay more money for crappier produce (local-grown, organic), use a local credit union and only shop at mom and pop stores.

The fact that you don't only illustrates exactly why "big business" got big in the first place - providing better goods and services, cheaper than everyone else.

You're missing the Big Picture.

In my daily life I do all those local things, but even generics come from Big Pharma and Big Chains. (There's a good article about that at Bloomberg, and how pharma goes thru Ireland, to Amsterdam, to Bermuda, just to avoid corporate income taxes.)

Even the local mom and pops have to adjust prices to compete with WalMart's super store.

And what about money....it's all tied to the Fed and Treasury, FDIC, CTFC, OCC....no way around that.


Loki----bbbBBBBBbbbbbubbbbbBBBBBles

[Loki]

So you'd prefer to pay vastly higher prices for poorer service and fewer options just as long as you didn't have to rely on "big business"?

[CitizenCain]

You're missing the Big Picture.

No, I'm not.

And again, as with all things economics-related, you seem to be misunderstanding the fundamentals.

(There's a good article about that at Bloomberg, and how pharma goes thru Ireland, to Amsterdam, to Bermuda, just to avoid corporate income taxes.)

So, you too are noticing how government legislation makes things vastly more expensive and inefficient, even for "big" corporations?

So you'd prefer to pay vastly higher prices for poorer service and fewer options just as long as you didn't have to rely on "big business"?

Sure sounds like GeeGee's argument. Except that you left out the invisible economics fairies which would magically make things cost less without relying on economies of scale.

[GGT]

GeeGee is just angry. Don't make it worse by doing the Loki-Cain tag team and pulling out the name-calling tactic.

How you doin' there in your Big University, Loki? Illinois is Broke and not paying its Bills. Has that trickled down to you yet?