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Thread: Oh the Irony

  1. #331
    ....I continued to advocate offshore drilling, and still do, for a simple reason: BP is to blame for the spill, not the practice of offshore drilling.

    It is clear, however, that some major work needs to be done about corporate responsibility in the oil industry.

    The question of a “relief well” is a perfect example.

    Somehow, beyond my wildest expectations of what a public relations team could spin, BP has managed to convince the world that a “relief well” is necessary, and that such a well is the best way for BP to control the situation.

    The real reason that BP is drilling this relief well is that they want to have a functioning well for recovering oil from the reservoir before they destroy the leaking well. In other words, BP is hedging its bets that state and federal governments will not allow further drilling after the spill is stopped, so they’ve hyped the necessity of a so-called relief well in order to guarantee their company’s access to the oil field once the crisis ends.

    While it’s true that drilling a relief well and pumping concrete into the leaky well can stop the leak, it seems awfully suspicious that BP needs two relief wells to do this job. If BP intends to use these relief wells for future oil recovery, then the motive is all too clear.

    And let’s face it: BP knows very well that U.S. law limits their liability to $75 million in damages for causing this ecological Chernobyl. They also know that they’re already on the hook for that full amount and have nothing to lose by waiting a few more weeks for the so-called relief wells to come online.

    BP has a long history of pushing things to the political breaking point. Under its former name, the Anglo Iranian Oil Company, BP refused to renegotiate an exploitive concession, pushing the Iranian parliament to select the extreme nationalist Prime Minister, Mohammed Mossadegh, in 1951. Mossadegh then nationalized the oil company’s assets, setting off a cycle of coups and instability that disrupted Iran’s political scene all the way to the Islamic revolution in 1979.

    If the oil company had been more honest and fair, then perhaps we wouldn’t be dealing with a crazy regime of nuke-seeking ayatollahs today. As it stands, the company that we now call BP simply changes its name every few decades and hopes that the world will forget its ugly past. Perhaps BP should stand for “Breaking Point.”

    Today, BP seems to be pushing things to the breaking point again, and this current example of corporate irresponsibility may push regulators to ban offshore drilling, which would be an unfortunate consequence.

    If America bans offshore drilling on account of BP, then a race to the bottom will begin, with more and more oil companies moving to places like Nigeria with lax environmental regulations and perennial oil spills.

    What we need instead of a ban on offshore oil drilling is an industry-wide revamping of safety practices, and a cultural change in the management of BP. The management and culture that have kept our navy’s ships and submarines with a perfect record of nuclear safety is a great example for the oil industry to follow.

    BP has run this ship aground. America needs more than a bipartisan commission; it needs its commander in chief to take the helm for a while and bring it back safely to harbor.
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...d=bs:featured4


    Now don't anyone chew my head off for posting this, please. I just thought it was an interesting take on things.

  2. #332
    I echoed that in an earlier post. I understand the need to drill in our own waters, but BP has through out history shown itself to be an incompetent company that dissregards just about everything that would cut into profit. You only need to look at how their violations have increased since their last deadly explosion.

  3. #333
    I like how quickly you become an expert on topics that you've known or cared nothing about as of weeks ago. Reddit must be the new Holiday Inn Express.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  4. #334
    Considering I live on the coast, and drilling has been in the news for months, BP's business (of fuck ups) is pretty well known.

    My apologies for not making that into a thread for your benefit of looking into others' lives. I'll taking this issue very seriously, and will do my best to correct such oversights in the near future.

  5. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I like how quickly you become an expert on topics that you've known or cared nothing about as of weeks ago. Reddit must be the new Holiday Inn Express.
    Once again with the discrediting attacks. Because you are the only one with an educated opinion, and thus we should all harken to you?

    Seriously man, you were on the way to serious PhD syndrome before you were a junior in college. Pro tip: people don't like people with PhD syndrome.

  6. #336
    Sure, but he takes it farther into politics and regimes in Iran. This doesn't have to devolve into "war for oil" rhetoric, probably will eventually. Corporate irresponsibility though, yeah. Big oil misuses its power and clout to make profit, convinces legislators self-regulation works because they're the experts, after all. Then when they fail miserably and threaten entire economies, the culprits become the problem-solvers, only they have the expertise and technology. Then people whine about how regulators didn't do their jobs to protect the public from the manacing maniacs. Sounds familiar.

    That was a reply to OG.

  7. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I like how the word "organization" keeps popping up. Can we call them a business? Or a corporation? That'd be

    uh

    more honest
    I was thinking more along the lines of "raper of the planet," but that's histrionic.

  8. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    Once again with the discrediting attacks. Because you are the only one with an educated opinion, and thus we should all harken to you?

    Seriously man, you were on the way to serious PhD syndrome before you were a junior in college. Pro tip: people don't like people with PhD syndrome.
    Do you notice how I haven't expressed an opinion on the specifics of this case? Could it be because I actually know what I don't know about? Education has nothing to do with it, Lewk.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  9. #339
    Mafia calls itself an "organization", too.

  10. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Considering I live on the coast, and drilling has been in the news for months, BP's business (of fuck ups) is pretty well known.

    My apologies for not making that into a thread for your benefit of looking into others' lives. I'll taking this issue very seriously, and will do my best to correct such oversights in the near future.
    So you can tell me whether BP is relatively more or less likely to engage in irresponsible behavior than other oil firms? Or firms in other industries? Or if the trend in more violations is a result of more negligent behavior by BP, a general increase in the entire industry, or a result of stricter enforcement? Are you making comparisons for this year versus last year or against the last 10, 20, 30 years?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  11. #341
    Loki, knock it off, really. This isn't one of your classes and you're not in charge of the discussion. It's perfectly reasonable, even expected, that Americans would be angry or enraged at the volcano of oil in the Gulf. It's human nature to go from shock to blame, looking for who can fix this, how or when. It's frustrating and incredibly sad, what's happened. And we don't have to be experts in any damn field or have a PhD to express ourselves.

    The question for you is: why are you so reluctant to show any human emotion at all in this disaster, and prefer to treat others rudely instead?

  12. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    So you can tell me whether BP is relatively more or less likely to engage in irresponsible behavior than other oil firms?
    Not related to discussion
    Or firms in other industries?
    Not related to discussion

    You're like a child with all these "THEY GET TO DO IT" accusations. I can't imagine your rage face while reading The Jungle. That poor industry singled out like that.
    Or if the trend in more violations is a result of more negligent behavior by BP,
    Possible, didn't make a claim either way
    a general increase in the entire industry
    Not related to discussion, but I will point out that all Shell controlled locations now have working failsafes and backups
    or a result of stricter enforcement?
    Shouldn't matter. Its not like the rules are sprung up randomly. If the enforcement got stricker thats something BP should have planned for considering they killed people the last time.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    and prefer to treat others rudely instead?
    Its Loki, its his thing, I'm surprised his name doesn't appear in Urbandictionary under trolling.

  13. #343
    "BP has through out history shown itself to be an incompetent company that dissregards just about everything that would cut into profit. You only need to look at how their violations have increased since their last deadly explosion."

    So you have no context for any of these claims?

    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Loki, knock it off, really. This isn't one of your classes and you're not in charge of the discussion. It's perfectly reasonable, even expected, that Americans would be angry or enraged at the volcano of oil in the Gulf. It's human nature to go from shock to blame, looking for who can fix this, how or when. It's frustrating and incredibly sad, what's happened. And we don't have to be experts in any damn field or have a PhD to express ourselves.

    The question for you is: why are you so reluctant to show any human emotion at all in this disaster, and prefer to treat others rudely instead?
    No, it's perfectly expected that you would be angry at anything that shows up in the news. Just like it's perfectly expected for OG to being a fanboy (or the opposite) at whatever he's told to be a fanboy (or the opposite) of by Reddit and related groups. Just because we can all expect this kind of behavior doesn't make it any more tolerable.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    "BP has through out history shown itself to be an incompetent company that dissregards just about everything that would cut into profit. You only need to look at how their violations have increased since their last deadly explosion."
    I figured GGT's short history lesson, BPs more recent year after year list of failing to correct violations, and BP's controlling interest in the Valdez cleanup with Alaska's oil industry consortium would be clear enough; where they left the needed cleanup equipement buried, unmantained, under several feet of snow. Are you looking for pre-roman history as well?

  15. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    No, it's perfectly expected that you would be angry at anything that shows up in the news. Just like it's perfectly expected for OG to being a fanboy (or the opposite) at whatever he's told to be a fanboy (or the opposite) of by Reddit and related groups. Just because we can all expect this kind of behavior doesn't make it any more tolerable.
    You didn't answer my question. Maybe you need to conduct a study and run the math before you can allow yourself a reaction to "anything that shows up in the news". Good luck with that.

  16. #346
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    You didn't answer my question. Maybe you need to conduct a study and run the math before you can allow yourself a reaction to "anything that shows up in the news". Good luck with that.
    Why is an emotional response needed? (When in fact, a emotional response is either useless or can make a situation worse)

  17. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Why is an emotional response needed? (When in fact, a emotional response is either useless or can make a situation worse)
    Because no reaction can mean apathy. Weak reaction might mean, "ah so what, shit happens, everything will work out"--complacency.

    I suppose you guys were a real interesting bunch of forum posters in the wake of other disasters, too.

  18. #348
    You're right, we should act based on appeals to emotion, not logic or facts.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  19. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You're right, we should act based on appeals to emotion, not logic or facts.
    To you that means we should just stop posting, because hey! not all the facts are out yet, and we wouldn't want to rush to judgement.

    The fact that oil is spewing in the Gulf and washing into marshes, sinking into oyster and shrimp larva beds, and showing up on birds and turtles and beaches.....is enough to make the logical conclusion that this DISASTER is going to hurt / destroy marine life, affect human life, and probably the entire Gulf shore.

    I'm fine with feeling anger, disappointment, distrust, and sadness. An incredibly sad feeling about the destruction of delicate and important part of our country, and the lives that will be hurt. In fact, that's quite the logical response.

  20. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You're right, we should act based on appeals to emotion, not logic or facts.
    The facts that have been revealed so far aren't enough to evoke an emotional response from you? What, do you need it to be a more direct impact on your daily life in order to warrant a emotion?
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  21. #351
    There are enough facts out there to have an intelligent discussion.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  22. #352
    And OG has linked and referred to factual news, but you prefer to call him a fanboy who got expert at HolidayInnExpress. I've shared some facts too, but then I'm just an emotional news junkie.

    We can have an intelligent discussion, based on facts, all you want. It's just not best to start it out by calling people names. Because then, you see, you've appealed to their emotions.

  23. #353
    Insults and fanboy slinging are the corner stone of intelligent internet discussion people!

  24. #354
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Because no reaction can mean apathy. Weak reaction might mean, "ah so what, shit happens, everything will work out"--complacency.

    I suppose you guys were a real interesting bunch of forum posters in the wake of other disasters, too.
    Can mean, but does not automatically mean.

    I put forth that is your dysfunction, not mine (Loki is dysfunctional, but in a different way)

    I see no reason to pull out my hair and gnash my teeth, cause as Loki notes above, overreaction leads to pandering of those in power. (See Three Mile Island)

  25. #355
    The Daily Beast dude referred to pandering to power politics and oil.

    FACT: the oil volcano is still spewing hundreds of thousands of gallons per day, 35 days and counting.
    Dismay

    FACT: no one seems to know how to stop the leak, or how long it can spew and plume
    Anger

    FACT: visible sheen and globs, unseen underwater oil, closer to loop current, closed fishing grounds, businesses shut down
    Fear

    FACT: BP, Transocean and Halliburton are the main companies involved, along with MMS and Dept of Interior etc
    Frustration

    FACT: we've been paying lip service to changing energy policy for decades, SSDD
    Disappointment

  26. #356
    http://twitter.com/BPGlobalPR

    Sad when the fake BP twitter account has more followers than the real BP twitter account.

    Spoiler:

    Oh man, this whole time we've been trying to stop SEAWATER from gushing into our OIL. Stupid Terry was holding the diagram upside down.

    Bonfire/Boat Party tonight in the gulf. No fatties, BYOB.

    The good news: Mermaids are real. The bad news: They are now extinct.

  27. #357
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Do you notice how I haven't expressed an opinion on the specifics of this case? Could it be because I actually know what I don't know about? Education has nothing to do with it, Lewk.
    And yet you dare to talk about paedagogics or psychology. Hypocrite.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  28. #358
    White House: Oil spill worst in US History.

    Rage inducing quote, especially considering how BP ignored the EPA's first request to stop using their dispersant:

    the mixture appeared to be breaking into small droplets that are capable of passing through the flesh of fish and birds and being picked up ocean currents.

    "[It is] just this cloud of granular oil," Cousteau said. "And you can see it dispersing deeper and deeper into the water column. And, you know, what we're hearing is that there are plumes of oil like this beneath this surface like this at various different depths than can go for 10 or more miles."

    Cousteau called it a "nightmare."

  29. #359
    Again, marshes can't be cleaned.

    But let's not use words like nightmare, frustration, heartbreak.

  30. #360
    Cost saving at the expense of safety, told by BP via the 3 little pigs.



    This is BP putting a $ amount on a human life.

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