Why are those 2 mutually exclusive?
Why are those 2 mutually exclusive?
Hope is the denial of reality
Which two things do you mean? Energy and Oil, Energy and Environment, Oil and War, Policy and Information, Populace and Politicians?Originally Posted by Loki
They are all connected. But take a look at how information has expanded since 1979. Now it's not just dry paper-reading news, but live real-time video feeds. It's not just lines at gas pumps during embargoes, but web sites listing daily gas prices. It's not just a commander-in-chief declaring victory on an aircraft carrier framed in banners, surrounded by uniformed personnel.......
Oh, the Irony.
People like Fuzzy don't think live feeds from robotic cams 5,000 feet below sea level should be seen by the public, because they're too stupid to understand the physics. Never mind that they include audio, with experts describing what's going on, so it's illuminating.
(Compare the news coverage of Ixtoc to the coverage of Deep Horizon. It's like the difference between Apollo 13 and any Atlantis mission, where we got to see astronauts in negative gravity, talking in real time, instead of a made-for-tv-movie with surrogate actors.)
What people DO understand, and yes it's a visceral or emotional reaction, is watching death and destruction. It could be a scene from Baghdad or Beloxi, once people see death and destruction in real time---it's no longer an academic exercise.
Anyone with a television (and that means everyone) can connect the dots between drilling for oil, or mining for coal, and that energy has risks they never really thought about until now. It sets up an inner quandary and a political platform.
Unless you want to continue to criticize an uninformed electorate......
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../TrangBang.jpg
Not sure if I linked that properly, but "Pictures speak a thousand words".
Photojournalism is even more potent in the 21st century than ever before. Realism under the guise of entertainment/movies is also powerful (The Hurt Locker) and it gets under the psyche of people. That's the War angle.....
Nowadays it's Reality that gets people to think about Energy, every time they pump up at the gas station. The Irony is seeing folks driving around with bumper stickers on their gas guzzlers that say, "Support Our Troops".
The point is that folks shouldn't be throwing corporations under their boots just because they like to be angsty students. Just like they shouldn't throw immigrants under their boots because they like to be angsty racists.
Yes, it was Salazar. I also had the same "wait..." moment when Obama condemned Salazar using that kind of language. Which is the right call of Obama, I'm glad he brought it up.Still unsure why he's apologizing/being encouraged to apologize. But him highlighting this was appropriate.
Looks like the media cycle played telephone, which happens.
Wait, Dread, aren't you the one who was all hot to trot about Obama saying inappropriate things like boots on necks? Maybe I got lost in your dialogue with Nessie.
Dang, I had to scroll back a few pages to trace this. But now that it's here, I'm sure Dread meant to retract his statement attributing "boot on the neck of BP" to Obama.
It was just media telephone tag after all.
I have nothing to retract, we were going on bad information. I thought he had said it and so did everyone here who defended him saying it. We were all wrong, and Obama said it was inappropriate for someone in his cabinet to say it. This was right of him to do.
tsk, seems to me you made a rash judgement based on some daily news report, and it went on for a while.
"We were all wrong" isn't a good excuse for being wrong.
But at least you can give Obama some credit for being right, although it sounds like sour grapes just the same.
Folks aren't throwing corporations under their boots just because they like to be angsty students. That belittles angsty students as ideological idiots. At the same time you want to portray any thinking adult (who shares those ideas) as being angsty moronic students who just might know more if they weren't students, you imply that there's a lack of information or knowledge. Or that only certain people can filter and interpret facts.
If they agree with you, then they're an educated ally. If they don't, then they're moronic uneducated blobs. Or students.
Fail.
It's late, I'm a bit drunk now, nobody would mind if I insert something emotional, right?
My experiences with the Gulf are all visceral, sensual, passionate. It's all about the scent of the coastal breezes, the tastes of shrimp or crab or conch, the sensation of rocking boats. Watching tides that come and go, planning and charting journeys, marine maps on the dash weighted down with a sand tray, checking with radar and sonar. Heavy boats maneuvering between green or red markers, heed way to sails, bridges rising for masts, radio chatter between captains and harbor masters.
It's been so long now that I can't remember the terminology. I was mostly an observer, a mate, pulling lines and putting out bumpers while docking, tying ropes, just tell me what to do....
Not sure how many sea people are on this forum, but it doesn't seem like any. So I feel a bit of need to explain the sea life, even though I was just a visitor and observer on my mom's trawler.
The sea is life. It's their life. There's a commeraderie, a culture, a history, for the people who live by or on the sea. It's not just about your access to shrimp or eating at Red Lobster.
To watch it being fouled by oil, the grasses and marshes polluted with thick liquid carbon, the plankton and tiny things that feed the whole sea and its entire cycle of life, drowning by an invader assault that we introduced.......to watch it dying bit by bit, by our own hand.....well it's just heartbreaking.
I wish I could write like Hemingway now, but I can't.
Back on topic. Is it ironic or pathetic that our first tech savvy administration doesn't seem to be connected?
Yes that is exactly what is going on here, I am fascinated by your poignant analyses and would like to subscribe to your newsletter
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Psst, Nessus, do you think he has a grasp on this whole ecological catastrophe shtick yet?Yes that is exactly what is going on here, I am fascinated by your poignant analyses and would like to subscribe to your newsletter
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
It's impossible to gauge what he knows or thinks since he seems way too cool to discuss anything with the riff-raff
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
They were exploring for oil, determining the size and potential of the oil field, and so on. They were in the process of sealing this one to move on to the next drill site. That's why it was a ship that blew up and not a typical rig platform. This exploratory drilling is the harmless kind they're always asking to do in places like Alaska's north slope, etc. It's just an 'exploratory well,' not actual production drilling..... blah blah blah. WTF?
So you like Obama now?The point is that folks shouldn't be throwing corporations under their boots just because they like to be angsty students. Just like they shouldn't throw immigrants under their boots because they like to be angsty racists.
Yes, it was Salazar. I also had the same "wait..." moment when Obama condemned Salazar using that kind of language. Which is the right call of Obama, I'm glad he brought it up.
Looks like the media cycle played telephone, which happens.
EDIT: Note the Top Kill's not looking so good right now. WTF AGAIN???? I just can not believe nobody has a way to plug this fuckin' hole!
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
What I'm saying is that there is a standard for rhetoric that I expect from my government and it's not demagoguery. This was never a question about the facts (even though everyone had the wrong facts), but about principles.
Yes that is exactly what is going on here, I am fascinated by your poignant analyses and would like to subscribe to your newsletter
Once again, I'm not denying that this is fucking awful. But for the fifth time, what I'm saying is that there is a standard for rhetoric that I expect from my government and it's not demagoguery. If you think the words our elected officials use don't matter, please let me subscribe to your newsletter because it sounds like some entertaining blips targeting various churches, organizations, companies, minority groups, etc could come up.
The fact that Obama agreed the language was not appropriate for someone in his administration only furthers the point about reasonable rhetoric from those in politics. And for the record, a lot of past Ron Paul language isn't reasonable (jury still out on Rand).
Dread - you're so transparent.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Oh, and what is the "real" point being made?
Yes, I don't like demagoguery. It's not too simple, but also not too complicated. The next time some politician rants about stuff like how gays can't serve in the military because it "disrupts cohesion" or how stem-cell treatments that save lives are based on "killing babies", you won't see me manning the pickets with them. It's known as a principle, and it means having a view about conduct that means sometimes you don't join the mob mentality.
Oy vey
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Like a light mist. Or a dirty window. Right into your twisting, flailing psyche.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Trying to get a grasp of whatever Dread is throwing a tantrum over.
Is he saying he doesn't have to admit being wrong about the source quote because we attacked his WTF opinion, and don't fact check everything he posts?Using that logic, Lewk would be considered a god damn genius, and Fox would be a reputable news source again.
Let me get this straight: you people are attacking Dread for being wrong about a quote and then admitting that he was wrong when presented with that fact?
Hope is the denial of reality
It'd be helpful if you named names instead of using your usual "you people"
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
OG, Chaloobi, and GGT.
Hope is the denial of reality
Actually, I don't understand what Dread's talking about. Or what Nessus has posted in the last page or so here. Or whatever OG is saying. I just posted a mildly arrogant/insulting remark that meant nothing whatsoever, then embellished it with some creative, imo, language. It's entirely open to interpretation because it only peripherally relates to Dread jumping on the Obama bashing bandwaggon on the basis of misinformation likely spewed by some attack pundit wanting to get Republicans back into office so they can try to starve the beast again.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Thats why I asked. I missed most of this last night. I caught this quote, and one with him blaming the media, even though he is the one that made the point to post the full and complete Paul quote.
Dread's made it perfectly clear he no longer takes part in a discussion that doesn't fit his personal criteria. Also, as Ness pointed out, his insisting on sticking with the fundemental flaw of ignoring "one of these is not like the others." So I didn't see a point in reading a page and a half of him repeating the same stupid crap over and over again while beating around the more basic issue.
But I do like how he complains about mob mentality, but ignores squeaky wheel syndrome.
On Topic:
Big Surprise! Top Kill didn't work. BP admitted that their "mud" is flowing into the ocean instead of sitting in the pipes, which means the oil pressure is still to great to create a seal. Now BP is going to move up to their "junk shot" attempt which mixes the mud with trash, literally shredded trash, hoping that the trash gives the mud something to stick to and and will fill in the holes the mud isn't filling.
Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 05-28-2010 at 03:56 PM.
Are you sure?
U.S. official: Flow of oil from spill has stopped
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
The oil has stop flowing, but the mud hasn't which means the pressure is still there. The mud is heavier than the water, so it shouldn't be shooting up through the plume like it is.
BP moves to Junk Shot.
BP resumes after Top Kill setback
BP officials, who along with government officials created the impression early in the day that the strategy was working, disclosed later that they had stopped pumping the night before when engineers saw that too much of the drilling fluid was escaping along with the oil.
The numbers are in!
BP's 5,000 barrels a day? Not a chance in hell.
The current federal esitmates puts it as high as 25,000 barrels a day, but likely 11,000 - 19,000 barrels.
Thats right, oil was spilling into the Gulf at about 3X the rate that BP wanted to admit to. Thats 30 million barrels of oil since this started.
Almost equal to 3 Valdez sized spills.
That means that BP's mile long straw, on its most successful day, was sucking up less than a third of the oil coming out of the pipe.
ArticleThose estimates ranged from 11,000 barrels per day on the low end to as much as 25,000 barrels a day on the high end. In a much longer report provided to The New York Times on Friday, the researchers describe the difficulties they faced -- sometimes in wresting information from BP -- and suggest that the flow rate may be even higher than any of their current estimates.
OG, you sound way to happy at this awful news....
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
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