Oh the Irony

**LittleFuzzy** · 06-02-2010, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by EyeKhan

I can't wait to see what the Gulf is like in August when they finally stop the spill. Seriously. This is unprecedented. Its like something the old Soviet Union would do, like dry up the Aral Sea or something. I once wrote in the only ACC pages that Yes, Sometimes The Sky Does Fall. Is there anyone here that imagined, before now, a simple exploratory well could end up with an accident so fully disastrous? I never imagined it. I had <gasp> more faith than that in both our coprporate overlords and in the government. I never imagined they would be completely powerless to stop a gigantic oil leak like this. I have to say it again: W.T.F???

I don't know about comparing it to the Aral Sea but yeah, kinda astounded that one non-production well does this sort of damage.

Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer

Dread seems confused by the frivolousness of the current system, instead of how individuals are shielded for chasing the almighty dollar.

You can't ignore one while trying to address the other in a systemic way.

Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

I think, they were think more about suing the decision makers - the people who actually gave the command to forgo security measures.

You can think that all you want, the class-action lawyers know better. The decision-makers have enough money to hire their own lawyers to keep the thing going for a decade. Way more lucrative to hit a bunch of the workers as individuals.

**Khendraja'aro** · 06-02-2010, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy

You can think that all you want, the class-action lawyers know better. The decision-makers have enough money to hire their own lawyers to keep the thing going for a decade. Way more lucrative to hit a bunch of the workers as individuals.

That's why you should get all work orders explicit in writing.

"Yes, sir, I know it's a dumb idea, but Mr. So-and-so explicitly demanded it. Here's the paper to prove it."

**Veldan Rath** · 06-02-2010, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro

That's why you should get all work orders explicit in writing.

"Yes, sir, I know it's a dumb idea, but Mr. So-and-so explicitly demanded it. Here's the paper to prove it."

So you were just following orders?

Lawyers will love that.

**Khendraja'aro** · 06-02-2010, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Veldan Rath

So you were just following orders?

Lawyers will love that.

Actually, they don't love that. Because the superior who gave that order will be in deep shit.

**Veldan Rath** · 06-02-2010, 07:13 PM

Everyone will be in deep shit, because if a worker knows something is dangerous and does not report it (it's what we have the Whistleblower Act for), he/she may be in trouble too.

The motto here is Sue Everyone and more often than not it is to get a settlement that is cheaper for the Defendant than going to court to defend themselves.

**Being** · 06-02-2010, 08:06 PM

I am merely suggesting that people who make desicisions that result in the destruction of property that does not belong to them should serve time in jail (personal responsibility). I reserve that fate for the decision makers (the ones with access to information concerning the risk being undertaken) not the people executing the decision.

**Veldan Rath** · 06-02-2010, 08:14 PM

And it's a lovely idea in theory, but in the US..the practice could be somewhat...nebulous.

**LittleFuzzy** · 06-02-2010, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Being

I am merely suggesting that people who make desicisions that result in the destruction of property that does not belong to them should serve time in jail (personal responsibility). I reserve that fate for the decision makers (the ones with access to information concerning the risk being undertaken) not the people executing the decision.

And that's very noble of you, I'm sure. Criminal justice doesn't deal all that well with things besides acts of commission though. So it's a lot more likely to nail the people executing the decision.

**Spawnie** · 06-02-2010, 11:57 PM

Is there no distinction made between people acting piecemeal as part of their jobs and people acting in a planning or controlling manner, making the decisions to do things like skip vital failsafes or whatever?

The uk recently passed a corporate manslaughter bill which says that in the event of gross or intentional neglect of health and safety duties which leads to a serious accident, the "controlling mind" of the organisation can be held accountable under the law. Its specifically aimed at CEOs and senior management andwhatnot.

**GGT** · 06-03-2010, 12:57 AM

We have OSHA for violations of safety rules. But they just fine the corporation, can halt or shut down operations. I don't know of any law that holds CEOs specifically accountable. Ostensibly the shareholders can vote for changes in the board or executives, but that rarely happens in reality.

**GGT** · 06-03-2010, 01:55 AM

Update on Cain's idea to nuke the thing gaining traction:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/us/03nuke.html?hp

Has anyone checked the BP web site asking for ideas? Has the idea of freezing the pipes (and turning the oil into a gel perhaps) been in the news? If they had problems with hydrate ice crystals forming in the depths, and glitching up the capping techniques.....could making it even colder help?

**LittleFuzzy** · 06-03-2010, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by GGT

Update on Cain's idea to nuke the thing gaining traction:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/us/03nuke.html?hp

Has anyone checked the BP web site asking for ideas? Has the idea of freezing the pipes (and turning the oil into a gel perhaps) been in the news? If they had problems with hydrate ice crystals forming in the depths, and glitching up the capping techniques.....could making it even colder help?

Not particularly. Too much water spreading any temperature difference around.

**GGT** · 06-03-2010, 02:26 AM

How about focused freezing? Since the icing clogged things up within the piping, why not use that on purpose?

**Ominous Gamer** · 06-03-2010, 02:29 AM

We can now add a diamond wire saw to BP's growing list of shit that they are only recently discovering don't work 5,000 feet under water

**GGT** · 06-03-2010, 02:31 AM

Not defending them, but ya know---saw blades get hung up all the time.

edit: What really bugs me is BP's assertion that Corexit isn't harmful, and they deny it's making people sick. OSHA and EPA has issued some fairly stern warnings, and there are now emergency medical units set up in some places to treat people with symptoms. Once that shit gets aerosolized and thrown inland by hurricanes, nobody really knows what will happen. Why can't BP be forced to stop using that stuff?

That plus their denial of the underwater plumes.

**LittleFuzzy** · 06-03-2010, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by GGT

How about focused freezing? Since the icing clogged things up within the piping, why not use that on purpose?

It wasn't ice, it was clathr. . .

ok, water-based solids are very unstable when in contact with liquid H20 at higher pressures. They'll form, but they won't last. You can't really get more than a slurry unless it is buried under sediment. And before you ask about burying this artificial clathrate under sediment, you might as well just try top-kill again because it amounts to the same thing.

**Ominous Gamer** · 06-04-2010, 02:15 AM

The photos that BP doesn't want you to see, and won't allow their unprotected cleanup crews to take.

This company does not deserve to exist

**Dreadnaught** · 06-04-2010, 02:54 AM

WSJ opinion page had an interesting piece today about how subsea currents mean there will likely be a ton of oil below the surface in the region for quite some time, if not all the way over in Europe. I can post if interested.

**Being** · 06-04-2010, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

WSJ opinion page had an interesting piece today about how subsea currents mean there will likely be a ton of oil below the surface in the region for quite some time, if not all the way over in Europe. I can post if interested.

Does it speak to the need for personal responsibility?

**Dreadnaught** · 06-04-2010, 11:54 AM

No, it doesn't advocate lynching.

**earthJoker** · 06-04-2010, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

WSJ opinion page had an interesting piece today about how subsea currents mean there will likely be a ton of oil below the surface in the region for quite some time, if not all the way over in Europe. I can post if interested.

Ha, the Brits get it all back

**Ominous Gamer** · 06-04-2010, 02:54 PM

BP withheld scope of the spill. A "duh" type of statement, but now there is video and interview proof.

Coast Guard officials told ABC News that BP refused to allow them to release the more startling images, arguing they were proprietary.

**GGT** · 06-04-2010, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Being

Does it speak to the need for personal responsibility?

Originally Posted by Dreadnaught

No, it doesn't advocate lynching.

Besides Hayward being a massive failure in PR, he was supposedly hired to BP with a promise to improve safety. His public statements show he was just paying lip service. He supposedly has the "full support of the board of directors" but shareholders are beginning to balk.

Firing his ass, terminating his contract, and clawing back some of his personal profits might be a step in the right direction toward holding CEOs personally responsible for their 'trickle down' destruction.

That's not lynching. Don't misuse the word lynching that way (like you do the word militant).

**GGT** · 06-04-2010, 05:08 PM

I just saw the new BP tv commercial, starring Hayward. I think they should have left out the part about "thousands of BP employees live here so we share your pain" angle. It shouldn't matter where they live or whose oceans they're fouling, just that they are.

But then I learned they've hired a PR consultant who used to be Dick Cheney's aide....

**Ominous Gamer** · 06-05-2010, 02:15 AM

If a picture is worth a 1,000 words, whats a video worth?
This short clip (after commerical) carries a much stronger message than the Boston still images.

**Being** · 06-05-2010, 02:41 AM

Hey! Let's drill volcanoes for geothermal power!

**Ominous Gamer** · 06-05-2010, 02:43 AM

Finally, the truth behind all those failed attempts to plug the pipe

Spoiler:

**GGT** · 06-06-2010, 12:44 AM

My ex has family in Guff Shores, Alabama. His brother is owner/operator of a souvenir type shop, wife is a hotel bookkeeper. They have tar balls on the beaches now, and business is way slow.

**GGT** · 06-06-2010, 02:47 AM

What do you people think of the search engines (google, bing, yahoo) accepting payment from Bp to have their web site be at the top of certain searches?

Worded another way, what do you think of Bp paying search engines to have their name appear first?

**Ominous Gamer** · 06-06-2010, 02:51 AM

I could have swore I psoted this already tonight, but its late and I've been in the sun all day. Maybe it ended up in another thread by accident...

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