If I was president

[GGT]

Well what the hell does that mean? Plenty of jobs are available on the Gulf Coast, to continue the BP oil clean-up. Might make our GDP look good, huh.

[oldmunchkin]

But those jobs will end when the clean-up is done. Mining and oil/gas exploration are ongoing jobs.

[EyeKhan]

My genealogy books show a clear link to royalty. The fifteenth cousin twice removed from the Earl of Yorkshire. Something like that. But they decided to leave England and make the ocean voyage to the new land of colonies. From what I gather, they weren't making this journey for religious reasons but for prosperity. They just realized the English empire was dying and wanted to spread their wings. They wanted to feel freeeee, not going in island circles. Some would say that's capitalism but I think it was island-phobia, and it's probably genetic.

Do I win now?

No. Your blood is clearly too dilute.

[Khendraja'aro]

Can anyone tell me what a dictator is or is not?

A dictator would be someone who came into absolute power illegally, through a coup d'état, for example (and, no, ex post facto doesn't count )

This is why most kings are not dictators since the rules of succession are pretty clear about who is to become the next king. Some kings were elected, even - just not by the general populace.

[GGT]

It is official, according to our Native American Indian Miss Munch. There is no such thing as peak oil or limited energy resources. Wyoming has all the things we need, and they are prepared to rape their land for the rest of us. Isn't that great? We can take all their resources, employ just a few of them, maybe even make them sick or destitute, but it will spread the wealth around! Isn't that patriotic? Munch tells me that [some Indian man in the sky says] this is their promised land, or something like that. Not sure why reservations have so many needy people or casinos, but she said it was the white man's fault.

But maybe I misunderstood what she was saying. I'm known for that. So munchkin will come along shortly to explain how Indians will exploit their land for the white man's use....

[Nessus]

Go

to

bed

[Illusions]

Its only a little past the afternoon here in the states, around 4 PM EST.

[Nessus]

Its only a little past the afternoon here in the states, around 4 PM EST.

Exactly

[oldmunchkin]

It is official, according to our Native American Indian Miss Munch. There is no such thing as peak oil or limited energy resources. Wyoming has all the things we need, and they are prepared to rape their land for the rest of us. Isn't that great? We can take all their resources, employ just a few of them, maybe even make them sick or destitute, but it will spread the wealth around! Isn't that patriotic? Munch tells me that [some Indian man in the sky says] this is their promised land, or something like that. Not sure why reservations have so many needy people or casinos, but she said it was the white man's fault.

But maybe I misunderstood what she was saying. I'm known for that. So munchkin will come along shortly to explain how Indians will exploit their land for the white man's use....

Frankly, YOU are the one that wants to debate this in public, NOT ME! I will let everyone know that up front, so no one thinks I just flew off the handle here!

I said:

Sure, we need to be exploring sustainable energy sources

and:

No I don't forget. I also know that a state that is able to provide jobs, especially now, should be looked at as a business example!

Sustainable energy is great, as far as it goes. So far, it's not been able to sustain itself! Even wind energy isn't available in mass amounts yet. AND, if you want to get into the environmental area here, (which I really don't but you forced the issue) haven't you heard the enviro-nuts whining about those ugly turbines, that are, supposedly, hurting the wildlife? Or the ZOMG you can't put those out in the OCEAN! They will kill the fish and birds and make the coastline UGLY! Hmmm, inch per inch, I would say the turbines would be less destructive than that fucking blow-out of BP's! Actually, the two fields of them that I know we have in Wyoming are kinda pretty and graceful looking!

Yes, someday we will run out of oil and coal. Gas I am not sure about! I do know the things I have read on the subject (NO! I am not going looking for sources. You want 'em, you go find 'em! ) say that day isn't going to be in my lifetime, and probably not in The Kid's either! And as long as we have geo-thermal sites like Yellowstone, that's not going to run out either! In fact, Yellowstone might blow up before we run out of oil in the world! I never said these things were going to last forever, just that for the time being, we should be utilizing these energy sources until we can find something better that is as stable as these are!

As far as the Native American part...fuck you! I said...I believe these natural resources were put here to use, not to just look at! You are the one that said using what The Great Spirit put here for our use was "raping the land". Indians used the land, animals, birds, and natural resources as they needed them! The white settlers came along, decided Indians were Godless heathens that needed to be put into concentration camps (reservations) on the worst pieces of land they could find, make them live by their laws, force religion onto them, and...to keep them placated and peaceful...gave them "firewater". Then, as generations passed, wondered why Indians were disgruntled drunks with no money. So, once again to placate them, allowed them to build casinos so that, hopefully, some could make a decent living.

[GGT]

That's not quite the msn chat we had, but it's a moot point munchie. The Indian philosophy I know (and it could very well be romantic myth) was all about not using so much of the land that it became infertile or sterile. That's why the ymoved around and let land lay fallow, or animals reproduce. Indians knew it was suicide for their tribes to kill all the salmon, trap all the bear or deer, use all the resources without thinking of the next season or generation......

So I don't believe any real native Indian will say come on in y'all, and kill everything you see, mine anything you can find, just give us money, because we just want money.

[oldmunchkin]

That's not quite the msn chat we had, but it's a moot point munchie. The Indian philosophy I know (and it could very well be romantic myth) was all about not using so much of the land that it became infertile or sterile. That's why the ymoved around and let land lay fallow, or animals reproduce. Indians knew it was suicide for their tribes to kill all the salmon, trap all the bear or deer, use all the resources without thinking of the next season or generation......

If you like, I can repost the whole MSN chat so everyone can see who brought the Indian thing into this!

Yes, you are right about the land use and the use of fish and game, to some extent! Mostly tho, Indians followed the game herds, didn't much care for fish...in fact, some tribes consider(ed) fish to be dirty...and didn't do much "farming". They also followed the seasons...south in the winter and north in the summer!

I just don't get where you are getting your ideas that we are ZOMG running out of coal and oil, unless you are falling into the popular media crap-trap! From what I understand, the best estimate is that they can keep mining around Gillette for at least 75 years. And, that's just the tip of the iceberg here in Wyoming! Plus, in the late 70's, they found a huge oil field just north of BFE that has never been touched...because of the energy policies put into place then.

So I don't believe any real native Indian will say come on in y'all, and kill everything you see, mine anything you can find, just give us money, because we just want money.

Once again, Indian's weren't given much of a choice in that matter. And only recently have they even begun to receive any of the minerals royalties that were rightfully theirs!

[Nessus]

"Rightfully"? They didn't defend it, they lost it, go cry in the bottle, eh

[oldmunchkin]

"Rightfully"? They didn't defend it, they lost it, go cry in the bottle, eh

They did defend it, in blood! How many were killed? How many couldn't survive the forced marches? It was kind of like having a knife in a gunfight! Hell, that was exactly what it was!

[Nessus]

Results matter.

[GGT]

If you like, I can repost the whole MSN chat so everyone can see who brought the Indian thing into this!

Yes, you are right about the land use and the use of fish and game, to some extent! Mostly tho, Indians followed the game herds, didn't much care for fish...in fact, some tribes consider(ed) fish to be dirty...and didn't do much "farming". They also followed the seasons...south in the winter and north in the summer!

I just don't get where you are getting your ideas that we are ZOMG running out of coal and oil, unless you are falling into the popular media crap-trap! From what I understand, the best estimate is that they can keep mining around Gillette for at least 75 years. And, that's just the tip of the iceberg here in Wyoming! Plus, in the late 70's, they found a huge oil field just north of BFE that has never been touched...because of the energy policies put into place then.

Once again, Indian's weren't given much of a choice in that matter. And only recently have they even begun to receive any of the minerals royalties that were rightfully theirs!

Science changed everything though didn't it? We don't have to send men down into coal mines or pay them to work explosive gases if we can use solar panels or lithium batteries or something else.

It's hard to believe there are 33 Chilean miners trapped underground, waiting until perhaps the end of the year, just so they could mine coal for the rest of the world to light their bulbs. It's crazy.

[oldmunchkin]

Science changed everything though didn't it? We don't have to send men down into coal mines or pay them to work explosive gases if we can use solar panels or lithium batteries or something else.

Yes, science did change things. It also tends to give false results occasionally!

It's hard to believe there are 33 Chilean miners trapped underground, waiting until perhaps the end of the year, just so they could mine coal for the rest of the world to light their bulbs. It's crazy.

Yeah. I do feel for those men and their families!

[EyeKhan]

It is official, according to our Native American Indian Miss Munch. There is no such thing as peak oil or limited energy resources. Wyoming has all the things we need, and they are prepared to rape their land for the rest of us. Isn't that great? We can take all their resources, employ just a few of them, maybe even make them sick or destitute, but it will spread the wealth around! Isn't that patriotic? Munch tells me that [some Indian man in the sky says] this is their promised land, or something like that. Not sure why reservations have so many needy people or casinos, but she said it was the white man's fault.

But maybe I misunderstood what she was saying. I'm known for that. So munchkin will come along shortly to explain how Indians will exploit their land for the white man's use....

I'm totally fine with the Wyominites raping the shit out of their land if they want to. I'll gladly pay for the goods that result, should I want them.

"Rightfully"? They didn't defend it, they lost it, go cry in the bottle, eh

Anyway, as always, Nessus, speaks truth (wrapped in rank 3-day old vault toilet shit, of course). Does the right of ownership go to whoever found "it" first? Or is it whoever uses it most effectively (i.e. for the most profit)? Or, to whoever can keep it. All of human history has relied on option 3, though we've worked damn hard, and made a lot of progress toward, legislating that out of acceptable culture. Even nation states don't do this much anymore. Progress.

[Nessus]

The geo-political climate isn't ripe for wars of conquest and looting right now, but I'm not convinced it'll remain that way indefinitely. And of course instead of shooting people, they're just bought off, intimidated or whatever is available in a free market economy for the powerful to obtain what they desire, it's certainly much cleaner than spreading small pox or Christianity.

[EyeKhan]

The geo-political climate isn't ripe for wars of conquest and looting right now, but I'm not convinced it'll remain that way indefinitely. And of course instead of shooting people, they're just bought off, intimidated or whatever is available in a free market economy for the powerful to obtain what they desire, it's certainly much cleaner than spreading small pox or Christianity.

Yes, our culture, out of necessity, has evolved a more civil means of raping and pillaging thy neighbor. As long as civilization doesn't get up-ended, we'll not see grand scale warfare again, IMHO. I don't know how this growth based economic model can continue in the long term without upending civilization, though.

[Nessus]

As long as civilization doesn't get up-ended, we'll not see grand scale warfare again, IMHO.

You're basically defining civilization as a state where there isn't grand scale warfare, seems kinda circular.

[EyeKhan]

You're basically defining civilization as a state where there isn't grand scale warfare, seems kinda circular.

Hmmmm.... I see what you mean. What if I rephrase it like this: "As long as our civilization in its current apparent evolutionary arc does not collapse into some level of chaos, there will not be another grand-scale total war." Have I made it linear?

[Nessus]

A little, maybe

[EyeKhan]

If I was President, there would be a Child Management Initiative, with the following highlights:

1. All prospective parents will be required to attend child rearing classes. (Note, child rearing classes are also required before a marriage license is granted, even if the happy couple insists they do not intend to have children.)

2. All moms-to-be will be required to receive medical care as recommended by the NIH, costs for lower income folks to be picked up by the government (Income thresholds to be set at something sensible, not what we call poverty level today), and non-compliance will be subejct to criminal child endangerment charges.

3. All children will be vaccinated for all diseases recommended by the NIH and would be required to have annual physical exams both of which would be paid for lower income parents. Non-compliance will be subject to criminal child endangerment charges and endangering the public health. No exceptions.

4. All children will attend school from age 3 to age 18 or the completion of highschool, whichever comes first. Pre-1st grade education will not consist of 'organized play.' No dropping out allowed. Children not meeting minimum standards for math, reading and writing will be enrolled in a tutoring / learning management program requiring parental involvement.

5. All schools will provide actual physical education that will involve daily exercise including organized cardio of not less than 30 minutes per day. Overweight children and their parents will be required to undergo a weight management program supervised by health professionals, progress required. Non-compliance subject to criminal child endangerment charges.

6. Once they become fertile, all girl children will receive birth control implants that will remain effective and in place until age 21. They can get it out the day they have their first legal drink, if they choose. (Also note, while marriage will be open to everyone, including same-sex and plural marriage, no-one under age 21 will be allowed to marry).

[Veldan Rath]

Ah...the Tyranny.

[GGT]

Spoken like the father of a young girl, huh choobs?

[Nessus]

1. All prospective parents will be required to attend child rearing classes. (Note, child rearing classes are also required before a marriage license is granted, even if the happy couple insists they do not intend to have children.)

Does this apply if one or both parties are sterile?

[Khendraja'aro]

6. Once they become fertile, all girl children will receive birth control implants that will remain effective and in place until age 21. They can get it out the day they have their first legal drink, if they choose. (Also note, while marriage will be open to everyone, including same-sex and plural marriage, no-one under age 21 will be allowed to marry).

Hey, that's cool, didn't realize you were a fan of Eugenics!

[GGT]

choobie, you weren't being serious, right?

[Aimless]

6. Once they become fertile, all girl children will receive birth control implants that will remain effective and in place until age 21. They can get it out the day they have their first legal drink, if they choose. (Also note, while marriage will be open to everyone, including same-sex and plural marriage, no-one under age 21 will be allowed to marry).

Why?

[EyeKhan]

Does this apply if one or both parties are sterile?

Yes. They may attempt adoption, surrogacy, etc. Sneaks.

Hey, that's cool, didn't realize you were a fan of Eugenics!

I'm not advocating limiting who can breed, just regulating the timing. Older parents make better parents. Better parents raise children to be better adults and good citizens of the state. Its for the best.

choobie, you weren't being serious, right?

Of course I'm serious. WTF?

Why?

The intent is to prevent teen moms first and foremost and bad moms overall. We have judged our citizens not mature enough to drink a glass of wine before the age of 21. Yet at age 17 these same people are somehow mature enough to be a parent? I think not and my administration will put a stop to this nonsense.

EDIT: And there is no better way to stop the abortions.

Ah...the Tyranny.

People need tyranny, in just the right amount. Otherwise we fuck everything up. My administration will provide the tyranny America needs to stop floundering.

EyeKhan - 2012