He didn't say you said that. You have set up and knocked down another straw man. Congrats.
![']['ear is offline](cpstyles/classicblue/statusicon/user-offline.png)
He didn't say you said that. You have set up and knocked down another straw man. Congrats.
"Nor do you have a basis to claim all mi secondary schools are bad"Originally Posted by ']['ear
He didn't say you said that. You have set up and knocked down another straw man. Congrats.
Hope is the denial of reality
And how exactly does one interpret "you have a horrible secondary education system" to mean that every single school in the state is bad?Well, what makes your statement even more ignorant and irrelevant is that the state doesn't have a secondary school system. Each community runs its own school district. The state provides some funding for the schools but until recently it only got involved enough in the operations to make sure every student took a government class. There's standardized testing and math/reading requirements now - more or less since No Child Left Behind - and more stuff since Obama's recent Reach for the Sky (or whatever) grant contest,(in which MI didn't win any grants), but that's all pretty new stuff. Your statement really doesn't make any sense at all in light of reality.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
List your sources you find acceptable. I'm going to love showing the liberal bias they have. Go ahead. Any day now.At this point I'm accepting those who don't shout their conflict of interest from the rooftops. Since you haven't ven met that standard, further discussion is pointless.
Actually, you were the one whose sources were challenged. I mean, it's fun to see you concerned about media integrity for the first time, but how about you stop trying to turn the table. Defend your sources. "No you" is not a suitable riposte.
Just for curiosity's sake, can you list examples of the liberal bias in the following:
NBC News
National Public Radio
CNN
BBC
Wall Street Journal (as if)
New York Times
Washington Post
Also, can you do an honest comparison of degree between these outlets and Fox News. You know, mildy biased vs. extreme. If you can compare how often the bias occurs, that would be helpful as well. As I understand it, its more or less continuous at Fox, but if you throw out an example for CNN that is fairly rare and then condemn the outlet as extremely biased, that would be very inaccurate. Thanks.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Can't believe you threw NPR and the NY Times in there. I don't think even they would deny that they have a left-wing bias (and BBC just admitted that it has a left-wing bias, and that's left-wing by British standards)...
Hope is the denial of reality
Well, what's good for the goose is good for the Michigander.
It's possible that Michican is a really major outlier and the state Board of Education is or was practically nonexistent, but I doubt it. You're being disingenous. That Texas textbook commission doesn't make actual textbook decisions for the Texas school districts, it just devises guidelines, so by your logic it is pretty much meaningless right? And you were just blowing smoke in those threads about it?
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Do you have any legitimate examples of left wing bias on NPR? TBH, I don't see it. When there's commentary, its very clearly identified who it is and what they represent and I've heard left wing and right wing commentary. I don't see a bias in actual news reporting either.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
I'm sure there are guidelines but that's not tantamount to a state-run school system. Every district is different, with different structures, local rules and local boards of education. You really think because there are state guidelines that means you can lump it all together as a State School System?
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Again, you were fine doing so wrt Texas.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
#1. You should answer the question according to what you believe is reasonable rather than reference something I said in a different discussion and a different context.
#2. I don't fully understand the Texas reference. I'm not sure I remember what you're referencing. Please elaborate a little.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Ok. I flat out do not believe that the public education regulatory apparatus in Michigan is so massively decentralized that one cannot refer to education in the state in any generalized manner, as you have alleged. Either you're being duplicitous, or you are deceiving yourself to minimize cognitive dissonance. You have no issue with such references when they're divorced from your personal anecdotal experiences.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
LOL! So by the very fact you disagree with a source the burden of proof is on me to defend a major national news source one that is viewed more often then its peers? Nice one.Actually, you were the one whose sources were challenged. I mean, it's fun to see you concerned about media integrity for the first time, but how about you stop trying to turn the table. Defend your sources. "No you" is not a suitable riposte.
Regardless of what the source is I look at the data. Blind objection to information from a source is no different then blind acceptance from a source.
The question of the matter is do you believe liberals have made an effort to infiltrate tea party rallies and make them look bad. You of course don't even get to it since all you will do is say "0MG FOX NEWS B!ASED!!!@!!"
I'm too lazy to go over each source. Pick one, and if Tear agrees he believes the source is purely objective and unbiased and we can accept reporting from them... I'll show the bias.Just for curiosity's sake, can you list examples of the liberal bias in the following:
I'm running out of patience with this, but the fallacy you're engaging in is one of expecting your opponents sources to have a crystal clean record when it comes to bias, while at the same time writing off some pretty egregious bias, lying and distortion of facts, for your own sources and then lambasting anyone who doesn't accept them as the word of truth itself.
. . .
Lewk, there's not even a pretense or veneer of impartiality with the sources you list. Fox is sponsoring tea bagger rallies, Breitbart is faking video clips as character assassinatins, and the third is an official fundie site. When's the last time that one of the sites Chaloobi mentioned actually helped create political movement?
BTW, I never denied that somebody tried to infiltrate the teabaggers. That's hardly news. Dems and Reps were infiltrating each other as far back as the early 80s, when I was high school, and I'm sure they've been doing it forever in every party in every country. Figures that the tea baggers' advocates (the sources you cite) would be whining about it, though. The fact that Fox whimpers about such an activity directed at tea baggers but doesn't mention the long, storied history of the activity is, well, classic Fox. Institutionalized lying.
Actually no. I don't expect any source to be unbiased. This is why people need to look at the information itself. The point I'm making is that Tear feels free to attack my source but doesn't offer something in place.
Yes, I see your laziness not only in your arguments but in the core of your thinking and your concepts of right and wrong.
You choose one or two to attack. But don't put a lot of out of context BS or lies out there. Try to take the exercise seriously.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Defend Breitbart, Lewk. How's about we start there, and you explain to me why anybody should ever take that asshole's word for anything. He's a lying sack of shit.
What is the point? I had more then one source for the information & you agree with the main premise!
Bigger question being what sources will you find acceptable? What sources do you declare are impartial and unbiased?
The BIGGER question is really what does Michigan do moving forward? Detroit as a city is dead. It's not the hub of automobile engineering or commerce that it used to be, but plenty of folks want to re-invigorate the state. It's really quite a great state, full of natural beauty and positioned nicely around the Great Lakes, and Canada.
There was a thing on the History channel the other night about Michigan and Ohio, trading the upper peninsula for Toledo when making state boundaries, trying to anticipate which had more value in land or port activity. Some said that's the reason for continued animosity in sports between Michigan State and Ohio State.
Because the point keeps resurfacing. You routinely cite professional liars.
Pretty much anybody who strives to get the facts right. Fact is that none of the sources you cited do so, and in fact each is guilty of intentionally get the facts WRONG in cases where this is no ambiguity.Bigger question being what sources will you find acceptable? What sources do you declare are impartial and unbiased?
Did you see this article choobie?
http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/22/news...tune/index.htmOutsourcing turns from Rio and Bangalore to . . . Detroit?
By Doron Levin, contributorSeptember 22, 2010: 1:10 PM ET
FORTUNE -- The downtown business district of Detroit, Michigan contains precious few beacons of economic optimism these days amid the empty office buildings, vacant lots and unsold condos.
One notable and unlikely bright spot is Somerset, New Jersey-based GalaxE.Solutions. The firm opened its doors a few months ago in a near-empty office tower with a promise by its chief executive officer to hire 500 workers from Detroit over the next five years. Only the landing of a flying saucer might have been more unexpected.
Tim Bryan, who founded and runs GalaxE, is a CEO on a mission to lower the costs of the proprietary software his company builds for some of the nation's biggest corporations. So far he's moved some of his operations to Bangalore and Hyderabad, India; and he has considered Brazil for hiring software talent at the lowest price.
But here's the rub: some of GalaxE's clients specify that their software must be written and maintained in the U.S. "I looked in Newark, I looked in Camden, N.J., I looked in Trenton, in Cleveland, in West Virginia," said Bryan. "I chose Detroit, and I really love the place."
For Bryan, the implosion and restructuring of the U.S. auto industry translates into cheaply priced office space plus an abundance of information technology professionals who can't move to where the jobs are because the value of their houses is under water. His company, which employs 900 worldwide, is projected to more than double in size over the next five years, he said, its growth fueled partly by demand for proprietary software systems that manage health-care, including reimbursement, records and emerging skills such gene mapping.
"For a young IT pro I look around and see low-cost housing, sports teams, casinos, bars and restaurants," he said. "It hearkens to my memory of being a young person in New York City -- the world is your oyster."
Bryan acknowledged that the expected political earthquake on Nov. 2 could have repercussions for new health care legislation, including possible revision. "Certain portions of the genie aren't going back in the bottle," he said. "Universal coverage may be difficult to undo."
So far GalaxE has hired 40 people in Detroit and has openings for 100. The company occupies a three floors in a sparsely-occupied office building, paying $14 a square foot for space compared with $17.25 a square foot in Somerset. A typical IT worker who receives $63,000 in salary in Detroit would earn more than $79,000 in Somerset, according to information provided by the company.
To sweeten GalaxE's move, the state of Michigan is providing more than $5 million in state and local tax incentives over the next five years.
A few blocks south of GalaxE sits the General Motors Co. headquarters on the Detroit River, home to the largest U.S. automaker, which is operating with financial assistance from the U.S. until the government can sell its stake. "In my lifetime no one actually expected GM to go into bankruptcy," Bryan said. "As GM and the auto industry got into trouble the distress of Detroit was understated. It got lost."
Bryan said he hopes to form a partnerships with local community colleges that will lead to training programs to provide future IT workers for his firm and others like it. "All I've heard is about how half the college graduates are leaving Michigan. We've got to do something to stop that."
Cool.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
I don't know how much control the state government exercises over the school districts. I know that before recently the only class a high school kid had to take was government. After that they could fill up their days with basket weaving (now there are minimum math and English requirments, and if I'm not mistaken there's even a language requirement!) I know that before the last 10 years or so there was no state wide testing and no porficiency exam for graduation. I do know that the way grade levels are divided up are different from community to community. I know some communities have requirements like a disclaimer that evolution is just a theory in their highschool biology classes but some do not. And from there, back to where all this started with Loki's quick and dirty explanation for why Michigan is having economic problems, I have yet to see anything that indicates MI's secondary schools are by and large worse than any state without a fucked up economy. (Though, I'm sure we're worse than some and better than others). And from there I don't see any basis for saying the state's economy is bad because of the quality of the secondary schools. His posts were totally unsupported - because they were right off the top of his head - and don't make a lot of sense.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2010...sert.cnnmoney/
ASSIGNMENT: DETROIT
Eleven videos to watch. From its food crisis to developing small businesses, and revitalizing neighborhoods.
Last edited by GGT; 10-04-2010 at 05:08 PM. Reason: there you go choobie. jeez.
What? Poppy Harlow?
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
I thought you (and others) might be interested in the series on Detroit. Not the journalist's name.
Oh. I guess I missed the intro you wrote to that link.I thought you (and others) might be interested in the series on Detroit. Not the journalist's name.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
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