Time to demand Israelification? :o

[Aimless]

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/ar...-little-bother

... "Israelification" - a system that protects life and limb without annoying you to death.

...

So. Eight years after 9/11, why are we still so reactive, so un-Israelified?

Working hard to dampen his outrage, Sela first blames our leaders, and then ourselves.

"We have a saying in Hebrew that it's much easier to look for a lost key under the light, than to look for the key where you actually lost it, because it's dark over there. That's exactly how (North American airport security officials) act," Sela said. "You can easily do what we do. You don't have to replace anything. You have to add just a little bit — technology, training. But you have to completely change the way you go about doing airport security. And that is something that the bureaucrats have a problem with. They are very well enclosed in their own concept."

And rather than fear, he suggests that outrage would be a far more powerful spur to provoking that change.

"Do you know why Israelis are so calm? We have brutal terror attacks on our civilians and still, life in Israel is pretty good. The reason is that people trust their defence forces, their police, their response teams and the security agencies. They know they're doing a good job. You can't say the same thing about Americans and Canadians. They don't trust anybody," Sela said. "But they say, 'So far, so good'. Then if something happens, all hell breaks loose and you've spent eight hours in an airport. Which is ridiculous. Not justifiable

"But, what can you do? Americans and Canadians are nice people and they will do anything because they were told to do so and because they don't know any different."

[Loki]

I think part of the problem is the kind of people who work at airports. Let's just say it's not the brightest or most motivated bunch of people here in the US.

[Ominous Gamer]

Well, not to many well balanced people grow up thinking they will be making a paycheck by groping people's junk.

The entire TSA concept is security theater. Nothing more. If you're catching terrorists at the airport terminal, your nation's security already failed you.

[Being]

I think part of the problem is the kind of people who work at airports. Let's just say it's not the brightest or most motivated bunch of people here in the US.

Where would you prefer these people to work?

[Loki]

McDonald's.

[Hazir]

I think part of the problem is the kind of people who work at airports. Let's just say it's not the brightest or most motivated bunch of people here in the US.

I was about to say exactly that; I think the problem with airport security in the USA lies in the abominable low hiring standards.

I doubt McDonald's would hire people with an attitude as horrible as seems to be the standard.

[Loki]

I was about to say exactly that; I think the problem with airport security in the USA lies in the abominable low hiring standards.

I doubt McDonald's would hire people with an attitude as horrible as seems to be the standard.

Good point. Or the intelligence level. Or motivation. Or the criminal records.

[']['ear]

Well, it's a shitty job. What do you expect?

[LittleFuzzy]

McDonald's.

Look, that may be ok with you, but I don't want to be groped at the McDonald's either.

[Loki]

Look, that may be ok with you, but I don't want to be groped at the McDonald's either.

Ok, Burger King. I never go there.

Well, it's a shitty job. What do you expect?

It pays better than McDonald's and requires half the skills and a tenth of the intelligence.

[']['ear]

It pays better than McDonald's and requires half the skills and a tenth of the intelligence.

I disagree. McD's is following a checklist that you could teach a chimpanzee to do. Literally.

TSA requires some judgment. Pplus HUGELY more responsibility.

[Loki]

I disagree. McD's is following a checklist that you could teach a chimpanzee to do. Literally.

TSA requires some judgment. Pplus HUGELY more responsibility.

TSA requires following a checklist too. The workers are generally too incompetent to figure out why they're doing it. At least McDonald's workers know why they're putting fries in the oil.

[Hazir]

You mean those TSA people also don't know why we take laptops out of their bags ?

[Loki]

I honestly don't think so.

[']['ear]

TSA requires following a checklist too. The workers are generally too incompetent to figure out why they're doing it. At least McDonald's workers know why they're putting fries in the oil.

You're reaching.

[Loki]

Ask them why you're only allowed 4 ounces of a liquid. And then ask an explosives specialist. Or ask them why you have to take your shoes off.

[Hazir]

I have to take off my shoes because there is a little metal strip in the soles that sets off the metal detector. At least, in my 'formal' shoes, other shoes don't seem to have that problem. To be honest, I find other travellers the real nuisance; all those people who are so totally unprepared that it takes them forever to get ready to walk through that damn detector. I typically am ready by the time it's my turn and 9 times out of 10 I walk through clean.

By the way; Frankfurt International is ridiculous in size; it took me close to half an hour to get from my arrival gate to my departure gate.

[']['ear]

And you think that's less complicated than "put the frozen fries in the oil for 5 minutes?"

You're conflating "why" and "how" questions. Tsk.

[Hazir]

Not at all. It leads to utter confusion in some cases; since there is no real why to my laptop question, there is no way to know if you should take your iPad out or not. And if you have to take your iPad out, then why not also your iPhone and/or iPod?

[wiggin]

I seriously doubt the Israeli model of airport security would work in most places - it is expensive, slow, and very labor intensive. That being said, it's true that protecting against the last attempt is a losing proposition and largely done just to look like one is being effective. The only real recourse for large countries without the options of the Israelis is to rely on good intelligence, train the public to be alert, and accept that no security is foolproof. Hell, even Israeli airport security failed once.

I think the larger point, though, is a good one. There has been a vast increase in intelligence and security funding in the last decade, but despite a few much-ballyhooed successes most Americans have a very low opinion of their effectiveness. This makes it very easy for both politicians and terrorists to play on our fears (like the ridiculous terror alert system or vague intelligence reports), while a country more confident of its security services' competency would pay far less attention to such posturing.

[GGT]

How many airlines fly into Israel besides El Al? And isn't their security done by their military?

[wiggin]

Uhm, lots of airlines fly to Ben Gurion - most international carriers with few exceptions. But the total number of flights is normally quite manageable.

The security is not done by the military. There's a separate airport security authority (though all of their personnel are veterans, of course). I think the perimeter security is done by the Border Police, which is a paramilitary group that functions as an adjunct to the military, but that's it.

[GGT]

Does Israel use their own security in those international airports, to screen all incoming flights?

[wiggin]

Yes, sorta.

[EyeKhan]

I think part of the problem is the kind of people who work at airports. Let's just say it's not the brightest or most motivated bunch of people here in the US.

I like them. They're courteous, they smile at you, and they seem to know what they are doing. And half of all that I interact with are from Detroit, so that's saying something.

[GGT]

We could privatize some of the security, making the airlines responsible for more screening procedures. But then there would be bitching about higher flight fees.
We could pay TSA employees better, and expect a higher degree of professionalism. But then there would be bitching about better paid federal employees.
We could use high-speed rail instead of flying 300 miles. But then there would be bitching about federal subsidies for high-speed rail.

[Dreadnaught]

Federal subsidies (though an investment bank for private operators would probably be better) for high speed rail corridors is definitely worth it in terms of long-term energy and environmental savings. But the bombers would then just gravitate there.

[Hazir]

I seriously doubt the Israeli model of airport security would work in most places - it is expensive, slow, and very labor intensive. That being said, it's true that protecting against the last attempt is a losing proposition and largely done just to look like one is being effective. The only real recourse for large countries without the options of the Israelis is to rely on good intelligence, train the public to be alert, and accept that no security is foolproof. Hell, even Israeli airport security failed once.

I think the larger point, though, is a good one. There has been a vast increase in intelligence and security funding in the last decade, but despite a few much-ballyhooed successes most Americans have a very low opinion of their effectiveness. This makes it very easy for both politicians and terrorists to play on our fears (like the ridiculous terror alert system or vague intelligence reports), while a country more confident of its security services' competency would pay far less attention to such posturing.

I also agree that the awareness of the public needs to be raised. I think it's going to take a lot of time though to end things like somebody going to a McDonald's in the center of Istanbul, sit down on the terrace and then leave his backpack outside next to his table in order to him to go to the toilet. A move wrong on so many levels I can't even start to describe it. That idiot was lucky he was back before somebody called to police (or a thief ran off with it).

[Ominous Gamer]

Last Thursday I was flying to LA on the Midnight flight. I went through security my usual sour stuff. I beeped, of course, and was shuttled to the "toss-em" line. A security guy came over. I assumed the position. I had a button up shirt on that was untucked. He reached around while he was behind me and grabbed around my front pocket. I guess he was going for my flashlight, but the area could have loosely been called "crotch." I said, "You have to ask me before you touch me or it's assault."

He said, "Once you cross that line, I can do whatever I want."

I said that wasn't true. I say that I have the option of saying no and not flying. He said, "Are you going to let me search you, or do I just throw you out?"

I said, "Finish up, and then call the police please."

When he was finished with my shoes, he said, "Okay, you can go."

I said, "I'd like to see your supervisor and I'd like LVPD to come here as well. I was assaulted by you."

He said, "You're free to go, there's no problem."

I said, "I have a problem, please send someone over."

They sent a guy over and I said that I'd like to register a complaint. I insisted on his name and badge number. I filled it out with my name. The supervisor, I think trying to intimidate me, asked for my license, and I gave it to him happily as he wrote down information. I kept saying, "Please get the police," and they kept saying, "You're free to go, we don't need the police." I insisted and they got a higher up, female, supervisor. I was polite, cold, and a little funny. "Anyone is welcome to grab my crotch, I don't require dinner and a movie, just ask me. Is that asking too much? You wanna grab my crotch, please ask. Does that seem like a crazy person to you?" I had about 4 of them standing around. Finally Metro PD shows up. It's really interesting. First of all, the cop is a BIG P&T fan and that ain't hurting. Second, I get the vibe that he is WAY sick of these federal leather-sniffers. He has that vibe that real cops have toward renta-cops. This is working WAY to my advantage, so I play it.

The supervisor says to the cop, 'He's free to go. We have no problem, you don't have to be here." Which shows me that the Feds are afraid of local. This is really cool. She says, "We have no trouble and he doesn't want to miss his flight."

I say, "I can take an early morning flight or a private jet. " The cop says, "If I have a citizen who is saying he was assaulted, you can't just send me away."

I tell the cop the story, in a very funny way. The cop, the voice of sanity says, "What's wrong with you people? You can't just grab a guy's crank without his permission." I tell him that my genitals weren't grabbed and the cop says, "I don't care, you can't do that to people. That's assault and battery in my book."

The supervisor says that they'll take care of the security guy. The cop says, "I'm not leaving until Penn tells me to. Now do you want to fill out all the paper work and show up in court, because I'll be right there beside you."

The supervisor says it's an internal matter, and they'll take care of it. "If you want to pursue this, we're going to have to go through the electronic evidence."

I say, "You mean videotape? Yeah, go get it."

She says, "Well, it'll take a long time, and you don't want to miss your flight. We have no problem with you, you're free to go."

The cop says, "Your guy grabbed his crank. That ain't right."

So, I fill out all the paper work and insist on a number to call to register a complaint. She says that I filled out a complaint, and I say, "I want more, give me another number. " She gives me a number that I find out later has been disconnected. I leave. I have a card with the name and number on it and the bad 800 number for the FAA.

My flight is way delayed, so I go to Burger King with Glenn - and all the feds are now off duty and at BK and sneering at us.

The next day the woman in charge of public relations calls me to "do anything to make my McCarran experience more enjoyable." I was a little under the weather with allergies and busy, so I didn't call back until yesterday.

It took some phone tag, but I finally got the woman on the phone. I was very cool and sweet. I explained the problem. "Do you allow your crotch to be grabbed without being asked?" I didn't exaggerate, I said that there was nothing sexual, I wasn't hurt, and it wasn't my genitals. I just said it was wrong. She said "Well, your feedback is really important because most people are afraid of us." She said, "I'd love to meet you so we could clear this up, and everyone wants to meet a celebrity." She said she had watched the videotape and there was no sound, but she saw him reach around. She said she couldn't tell me what was being done to him but . . . and I stopped her and said, she shouldn't do anything wrong.

I said that I had talked to two lawyers and they said it was really a weird case because no one knows if he can be charged with assault and battery while working in that job. But I told her, that some of my lawyer friends really wanted to find out. She said, "Well, we're very new to this job . . ." and I said, "Yeah, so we need these test cases to find out where you stand."

She said, "Well, you know a LOT about this." I said, "Well, it's not really the right word, but freedom is kind of a hobby with me, and I have disposable income that I'll spend to find out how to get people more of it."

She said, "Well, the airport is very important to all of our incomes and we don't want bad press. It'll hurt everyone, but you have to do what you think is right. But, if you give me your itinerary every time you fly, I'll be at the airport with you and we can make sure it's very pleasant for you."

I have no idea what this means, does it mean that they have a special area where all the friskers are topless showgirls, "We have nothing to hide, do you?" I have no idea. She pushes me for the next time I'm flying. I tell her I'm flying to Chicago around 2 on Sunday, if she wants to get that security guy there to sneer at me. She says, she'll be there, and it'll be very easy for me. I have no idea what this means.

I tell her that I'm still thinking about pressing charges, and I don't just care about me, it's freedom in general. I say the only thing that was good about it, was that while they were dealing with me, maybe they weren't beating up people in wheelchairs. It was amazing. All she was trying to do was make me happy. She said she'd burned a CD ROM of my video and it was being sent all around and they were going to change their training. She said, "We're federal employees, we're working for you, you pay us and we want customer satisfaction. It doesn't matter what the law is, we have to make you very happy so your flying experience is a pleasurable one, and most people don't give us this kind of intelligent feedback."

So, that was it. I'm flying on Sunday, I have no idea what will happen. How crazy is this? Do I really have some sort of mysterious VIP status to shut me up? Should I press charges? She said she was going to talk to the cop. I said he didn't see anything. She said, "Well, he may be able to see the forest for the trees, because he was right there." I quoted his "crank" comment and she laughed and then knew that was a very bad sign. I said, "He'll tell you I was polite, cold, angry, and funny" - that's more than should be expected of me. I still don't know what I'm going to do, but my advice to everyone is complain all you can and call the cops. I think it might make a little difference. Maybe you can become a VIP too.



Penn

Spoiler:

This was written 8 years ago. We are doing something very very wrong.

But the bombers would then just gravitate there.

Its not worth it to get into this with you, but there are some serious problems with this statement.

[wiggin]

Federal subsidies (though an investment bank for private operators would probably be better) for high speed rail corridors is definitely worth it in terms of long-term energy and environmental savings.

I'd challenge this, but its place is in another thread.