Death - How do you handle it?

[bigjimdavis]

We live in a society which has a pre-occupation with death. We spend billions each year trying to cheat it and spend billions more trying to deal with its aftermath. We plan elaborate funerals, often spending more in death than we did in life. Hell, pet funerals are becoming much more common and expensive. A friend’s neighbor spent $10,000.00 on her beloved pet Yorkshire Terrier's "funeral" which included cremation, internment in a pet cemetery and a wake attended by dozens of Yorkie’s “friends” (that’s right, her Yorkie’s name was Yorkie).

For years I have read the obits and have made comments like, "85? Well he/she had a good long life." or noticed where someone died who was younger than me. Often the death was of a good friend or someone I knew over the years causing me to scour my mind for recollections of them. I lost track of the times when I said to myself, "I wish I could have had a chance for one last conversation with them." When my Dad died suddenly in 1982 his last word to me was "Sorry." before he slipped into a coma. I have always wished I had the chance to say he had nothing to be sorry for and how proud I was to have him for a father. I know we have all said this, but my Dad really was the best. After my Dad's passing, I moved home so Mom wouldn't have to sell the house and to help with household expenses.

My Mom died on November 5th after a long battle with dementia. It can be argued that dementia itself cannot cause death, but it certainly is the start of a long, slow path to a painful death.

She was 86 and no doubt people read her obit and said to themselves, "86? Well she had a good long life." Like I said before I've been saying the same about other people for years, but when it hits home it changes your perspective.

Mom was never the same since my Dad passed away or when all her friends slowly passed on one by one until she was the last one left from the group of friends she and Dad had. When she began having mood changes and memory loss starting about 4 years ago her doctor wrote it off as getting old. We knew it had to be some form of Dementia or Alzheimer's but Mom refused to be tested and we watched her get progressively worse.

To say she could drive me nuts would be an understatement. How do you deal with someone asking the same questions over and over or someone who has forgotten friends, their favorite recipes or birthdays (including her own and mine)? How do you deal with someone who goes shopping and buys the same things she bought the week before and that we don't need (she liked dill pickles but we really didn't need 8 jars) and forgot to buy things we did need (toilet paper comes to mind, lol) or someone who forgot what she had made for dinner the night before and makes it once again (I love chicken but not 6 nights in a row)?

My Mom was fiercely independent and would refuse help as she felt she could handle things herself - like shopping, housework, cooking, etc... Being disabled with severe arthritis in both knees limited my mobility, but I would do anything I could to help her but she refused all help and would get extremely pissed if I helped her without asking first (to her this would mean I thought she couldn’t handle things). While her memory loss worsened there were some minor things she would never forget but would expand on to the point of obsession - sort of like making a mountain out of a molehill. For example, we don’t own a car so our neighbors use our garage and workshop for storage. To me it’s not a big deal as we weren’t using it and they helped us quite a bit, but Mom would go on and on about it.

This was not the Mom I knew. These things which happened were not her fault and I wish I could have handled things a bit different but frustration can get to you. I was frustrated with how the disease was robbing her of memories and changing her personality and I was frustrated by the same questions/conversations over and over. I may have sounded mad but should have reacted differently, but like I said, frustration can eat at you and make you react in ways you normally would not. I tried to impress on her that I was not mad at her, but at the situation and I hope she realized this.

It wasn't until the last 9 months when she started asking for my help with shopping or balancing her bankbook. I think she finally realized she was having problems but was too proud to admit it so asking for help was really hard for her.

While she had been progressively getting worse, everything changed virtually overnight in late September. One morning she awoke and had lost all energy and refused to eat as she said she would get sick if she ate. She spent more and more time in bed, became lethargic and was unable to look after her “personal” needs (bathing, washroom, etc…) and we looked at having homecare as it was obvious I could not help her with the personal care she needed. Her doctor was useless as it was always, “Well she is getting old.” and kept saying she will get over it in time. Finally after 3 weeks of no eating and inaction from her doctor, and after discussions with the home care nurse it was obvious Mom was dehydrated so we checked her in to the hospital.

Finally she was getting the treatment she needed but she still refused to eat and we discussed with the doctors and social workers about getting her into a 24/7 care facility. Deep down, however, my brother and I knew that once she entered the hospital she would not be leaving. She kept getting worse and became a shell of the person we all knew and loved, dropping down to about 70 lbs. The doctors said it was only a matter of time as it appeared she had given up the will to live. She was down to skin and bones and needing morphine as she was in constant pain and when she passed away the morning of November 5th we felt relief as she was now in a better place free of pain and back with Dad.

We know Mom would never want a church service so I asked our neighbors if they would mind having a memorial at their house. They said they would be honored and really stepped up to organize a potluck dinner which my Mom would have loved. Over 30 neighbors and relatives, many of whom we hadn’t seen for years, attended. It was a fitting tribute to my Mom who would have been honored by all those who attended. I encouraged everyone to say a few words about not only my Mom, but my Dad as well and I told a story which only my brother and I knew so I might as well share it here:

My parents were married in 1953 and spent their honeymoon on a car trip to Portland, Oregon. On the way there they decided to stop at a bar for a drink or two. The place was packed with people and with the jukebox blaring was noisy as hell too. My Dad had to visit the washroom and after a few minutes my Mom noticed him standing at the washroom door trying to say something to her. She tried responding but it was too noisy. My Dad tried to speak louder and just as he raised his voice the jukebox quit and the entire bar became silent as my Dad yelled, “My damn sister sewed up the front of my shorts and I peed my pants!” The quiet room suddenly filled with laughter and my parents made a hasty retreat.

For the next hour or so, neighbors and relatives opened up with stories of their own and the evening was most enjoyable and gave us all a better understanding of my Mom and Dad and allowed us all to share our grief.

Sorry for going on a bit but I appreciate the chance here to not only vent but to also ask you all some questions on the topic of this post:

1. How do you cope with death – whether it is expected or unexpected?
2. How would you handle someone exhibiting signs of dementia and at what point do you intervene against their wishes?
3. What kind of service would you want when you pass on?
4. How do you want to be remembered?

As I said, my Mom’s passing was not unexpected and we had some time to prepare ourselves, but not everyone has that same opportunity. While I had time to tell my Mom the things I needed to say, I never had the opportunity with my Dad and have some regrets that I didn’t have more time with him.

Knowing now what I do about Dementia, I wish my brother and I had acted sooner to get her tested as there are medications which can slow the progression of the disease. We may have been able to have a few more years with Mom, but if she truly had given up on life, so to speak, would we have had the right to be selfish to keep her around longer to make us feel better?

When I pass on, I can think of no better way to be remembered than the way we honored my Mom. I’m not into church services either as I am not a regular church goer and would not want a priest/pastor, etc… who does not know me to try and speak on my behalf. Nope, I would rather have my friends and relatives sit around, have a few drinks and, hopefully, say lots of good things about me, lol. I have left enough funds in my will for one hell of a wake (and enough Carolan’s for Sally).

Once we sell the house (we need to repay a reverse mortgage my Mom took out 20 years ago) I will be left with a good size inheritance and I can think of no better way to remember my parents than to establish a bursary/scholarship in their name at my old high school for a student who wants to attend nursing/medical school. Up here in Canada we have a great need for more nurses and doctors. It will be for $3,000.00 and I plan on presenting it every year. I will deposit $35,000.00 into a high interest account (hopefully say 3.5% a year or so) then with compound interest this $35,000.00 should provide enough bursaries for over 15 years. $3,000.00 may not seem like a lot of money when you look at how much it costs for a college education but it should provide a good starting point for any student.

As I have learned, life is short and we never know when our time will come. We all have regrets and say, “If only I had done….” In the future I will say the things I need to say to people and not hold them in for a better time as that time may never come. So let’s start - Sally and Laura, I may not have said it enough but thank you for being my friends, your friendship is invaluable to me.

OK, enough rambling for now… it’s time to make dinner, lol.

[GGT]

Dear Jim, belated sympathies for your mom's passing. I never know what to say when there's a death in the family....but you know you took great care of your mom. Whether she could voice it or not, her "old self" surely appreciated the years you spent caring for her.

Dementia and Alzheimer's are sneaky conditions, hiding for years and growing slowly, manageable until one day it's not. Preparing for that one day is hard, even harder to recognize. It leaves family feeling helpless and even guilty (should have done more, should have done XYZ). Try not to give into that emotion, or let her dementia take your mental health too! (Easier said than done.) Coping is what you've been doing for years, chasing moving targets, adapting as time went on. You did a fantastic job of that, while also dealing with your own illnesses. I hope you'll exhale now, give yourself a pat on the back for all that you DID do, not beat yourself up for what might have been....

Her funeral sounds lovely, and your scholarship fund so generous. What a great idea! Both your folks would love that, and be quite proud of you as their son. Hold onto that, hold tight to that.

[Knux897]

Very sad story you have my condolences... you don't seem to know that the majority of people on here are Athiests though

[Nessus]

Very sad story you have my condolences... you don't seem to know that the majority of people on here are Athiests though

What the Hell?

[Knux897]

I thought I was correct?

[Nessus]

Most people do; my question is, what's the point? Atheists don't die? They don't grieve? What?

[']['ear]

Very sorry, Jim.

[NGS]

And bigjim knows that already, faith is completely beside the point.

I'm sorry to hear the way things ended, but like GGT said the service you held must have been fantastic--what a way to give tribute! It's the exact kind of thing I'd want, and IMO the truest way to honor someone's life.

I have to say I'm no good at coping with death, most likely because I still don't understand its gravity. My aunt died when I was young, but as I didn't know her too well I couldn't feel too much. This summer when my old football coach died I was pretty upset, but still not moved to tears or much else--side note: he had a service much like your mother's. When I think of this I can't help but feel cold and emotionless, and I suppose it'll take a death pretty close to home to knock the wind out of me.

I don't think there's an easy way to cope with death, but I think that sharing your thoughts/feelings with other people is one of the best ways, whether it be getting something off your chest, confirmation of your own ideas, or a window into other trains of thought.

[GGT]

We live in a society which has a pre-occupation with death. We spend billions each year trying to cheat it and spend billions more trying to deal with its aftermath. We plan elaborate funerals, often spending more in death than we did in life. Hell, pet funerals are becoming much more common and expensive. A friend’s neighbor spent $10,000.00 on her beloved pet Yorkshire Terrier's "funeral" which included cremation, internment in a pet cemetery and a wake attended by dozens of Yorkie’s “friends” (that’s right, her Yorkie’s name was Yorkie).

3. What kind of service would you want when you pass on?
4. How do you want to be remembered?

This first part of your post is worth noting. Of course you're right about billions spent cheating or delaying death. Sometimes it's even erroneously called Healthcare, but quality of life doesn't enter into that much.

Death has its own industry. Most of us aren't aware of it until we have to call a mortuary to undertake things like transporting the body, embalming or cremation, caskets or urns, burials or interment or mausoleums. Some people even buy "pre-planning" services, where they choose their own casket and memorial service. Funeral Homes and cemeteries often sell their services as a package deal, along with grave stone makers and casket manufacturers, even florists and digital memorializers get in on the gig. (They can put photos and home videos to music and make a movie presentation; they call it a Celebration of Life service.)

They all prevail around the theme of making money off the guilt and remorse of the survivors. Thousands of dollars are spent on this, and I find it sadly exploitative of people's grief.

Kudos to you Jim, that you resisted that temptation.

[Knux897]

Most people do; my question is, what's the point? Atheists don't die? They don't grieve? What?

He wrote it as if we were all religious. I just wanted to point out to him that the majority does not adopt the same idea.


And GGT, how do they feed off remorse and guilt? You don't have to actually purchase an expensive funeral or any individual services if you don't want to.

[GGT]

He wrote it as if we were all religious. I just wanted to point out to him that the majority does not adopt the same idea.

No, he really didn't.

And GGT, how do they feed off remorse and guilt? You don't have to actually purchase an expensive funeral or any individual services if you don't want to.

It's sophisticated salesmanship. The grieving period is when most people are emotionally vulnerable, either shocked or exhausted. They're very good at using the permanence of death to sell fancy head stones and mahogany caskets....you only die once.

[bigjimdavis]

Knux, the fact I said in my post I am not a churchgoer should be a hint that I am not a deeply religious person and what I wrote was what actually happened, there was no religious slant to it at all. I simply asked these 4 questions:

1. How do you cope with death – whether it is expected or unexpected?
2. How would you handle someone exhibiting signs of dementia and at what point do you intervene against their wishes?
3. What kind of service would you want when you pass on?
4. How do you want to be remembered?

Could anyone please point out where I brought religion into these questions? AFAIK, even atheists have some kind of funeral services, if nothing else than to have a good excuse to have a big piss-up (atheists do drink too, don't they?)

Perhaps the only religious point in my post was when I said my Mom was now with my Dad, but IMO belief in an afterlife doesn't have to have religious connotations. Is there really an afterlife (and that's another post in itself) or is death the true end of it all? I don't know. I can hope for an afterlife so my parents can be together again, but it's just wishful thinking on my part. I suppose I won't really know until I kick the bucket myself, unless any forum member here has had a near death or out of body experience and can fill us in.

GGT, you are right, the costs of death in monetary terms can be rather high, and are not limited to actual costs. Most people forget that reps at funeral homes are salespeople, many of whom are on commission. Funeral homes charge to pickup the body, prepare the body for cremation, charge for a coffin which is burned in the cremation, charge for an urn and then transportation of the urn to where it is interred.

My older brother (who is co-executor with me) handled the arrangements with the funeral home. Even though we did not plan to have a "traditional" funeral, we still need them to complete the process and for cremation. IMO once I am dead and to be cremated I could care less if I am burned in a cardboard coffin and my ashes put into a cardboard box. When my Dad passed my uncle was executor and we agreed to purchase a "niche" (essentially a 3 ft x 3 ft x 3 ft. hole in the wall with a nice bronze plaque on the front) in an outside mausoleum at a cemetery. This seems to be a growing idea for internment as the cemetery has over 500 such niches in the mausoleum. The idea was for the internment of my Dad's urn with room for my Mom's when she passed. We went with the cardboard coffin and then an aluminum box for my Dad's ashes. When Mom was alive she told us both that she didn't want us to spend a lot on her when she died, but to do the same as what we did for my Dad. "There are better things to spend my money on than expensive coffins or urns." Well, the salesperson with my brother was pretty good at her job (it didn't help that she was young and beautiful) , "Doesn't your mom deserve the best?" "I'm sure your mom would like the jade urn better." Naturally he went with a nice wooden coffin and the jade urn. Total costs including internment was $6,000.00. The coffin was $1,500.00 and jade urn $995.00. Of course I said, "Ken you may be older but are also a moron. If Mom were here she would smack you upside the head." She almost talked him into a service in their chapel, complete with a catered after service in their meet and greet room for an additional $5,000.00. "I'm sure its something your Mom would have wanted and its a nice way to remember her." Thank God (sorry for the religious remark Knux) he had already maxed his credit card and phoned me to see what we should do. Luckily he wasn't too much of a moron and listened to me, lol.

Funeral homes are just one part of this process. Even the most basic of obits in our local newspaper costs $87.00 for five lines (about 35 words). Photo inserts cost another $48.00 and each additional line in the obit is $17.00. Inc. taxes, my Mom's obit was $886.00. I could have shortened it but wanted to give as much of a tribute as possible as it would be the last thing most people would see of my Mom. The obit also appears on-line for 1 month free and I spent $89.00 so it stays on-line permanently so my family or friends can post messages at Xmas, birthdays, etc... (of all the additional costs I thought this $89.00 was well spent)

Then there are the real estate agents. "Have you decided what to do with the family home? Please consider me if you plan on selling because right now the market is a sellers market." They make it sound like a cold call, but the timing is rather suspect.

That was one of 10 calls I have received. Also have had about 6 different charities calling with, "A donation in your Mom's name is a nice way to remember her."

Yes death has become a business unto itself. Almost every charity relies on bequeaths from grieving families to help the bottom line and some real estate agents are like ambulance chasers to be the first in line to get the listing. Newspapers make thousands upon thousands of dollars from obits - the recent Saturday Vancouver Sun featured 60 obits and its a good bet that the average was $500.00 per obit so do the math. In a time when classified ads are decreasing (ever notice how many fewer ads there are now for apartment rentals, etc...) its no wonder they pay so much attention to obits as a major source of income.

And yes, religion also stands to make money off of death as well. I'll leave it others to figure out how.

[GGT]

Yeah, you know it's bad when people read the obituaries to expand their businesses (or charity). It's disgusting, really.

[Knux897]

I was refering to the "in a higher place" comment. Not that I meant to critisize or anything but I thought it odd you would post something like that in an Athiest majoirty community. Though I am open to nonreligious theories about an after life, you did say "in a better place". How can you not expect someone to interpret that religiously?

[Omega]

How can you not expect someone to interpret that religiously?

Don't read too much into it? The author might be religious, but his audience might not be as religiously inclined.

[GGT]

"A better place" can also mean out of pain, relieved of misery. Nothing more, nothing less.


Also.....while my family knows my personal post-mortem wishes, they also know what I've learned: funerals and memorial services are for the living, not the deceased. My kids were fairly young when their grandmas died, and each had a different service. The open casket for their paternal grandma was both disturbing and helpful. Hard to explain, but actually seeing a dead body that was once a loved one can make it easier to let go and grieve. Seeing the finality cements it in the brain, instead of some vague "grandma isn't here any more" explanation.

Some Appalachian cultures still have long wakes with the deceased in the front room, like the old days. People come from all around and bring food, play music, dance. They also take pictures of the deceased in the casket, and add them to photo albums, right along their baby pictures, school graduation, proms and wedding portraits.

[GGT]

Since it's almost Pearl Harbor day, and the teevee is showing movies along those lines, I'm thinking about military deaths during War time. Treating the soldier's body with dignity and integrity is so important, even sacred. Sometimes those caskets come home with nothing more than body parts and dog tags, but they're draped in our flag and have a solemn ritual from fellow soldiers. We try not to leave our dead soldiers on the field, we try to bring them home and lay them to Rest on national ground.

Sometimes that can't be done, and it's not quite the same for family visiting an empty grave at Arlington, no matter what the headstone says. There's something quite comforting to the human mind, when people die in combat, to have the remains brought home. Not analogous to a person's wishes to have their cremated ashes strewn in the ocean or forest, scattered in the wind.

I think the US should have been sharing pictures of killed soldiers coming home a long time ago. Not in a perverse or morbid way, but to connect the War deaths with real lives, real people. The silver caskets draped in our flag, being carried from an aircraft belly by uniformed soldiers, sometimes dozens at a time. Everyone silent, standing at attention. The grieving family. Real people, real lives, real pain.

[bigjimdavis]

I was refering to the "in a higher place" comment. Not that I meant to critisize or anything but I thought it odd you would post something like that in an Athiest majoirty community. Though I am open to nonreligious theories about an after life, you did say "in a better place". How can you not expect someone to interpret that religiously?

Sorry but the only one who said "higher" place was you, I said better place and then explained it further in my second post.

Enough said. btw, before I post anything in future I will be certain to:
1. poll all forum members to see if the majority are atheists so I don't post anything religious,
2. poll all forum members to see if the majority are they are female so I don't post anything offensive to feminists
3. poll all forum members to see if the majority are Yankee fans to ensure I don't post anything praising the Red Sox
4. poll all forum members to see if the majority are Republicans so I don't make Sarah Palin jokes
5. poll all forum members to see if the majority are Communists so I don't extol the virtues of democracy

OK I think you get the picture. People are free to interpret any post as they see fit. If they are offended they are also free to ignore the post and get on with their life. I think if you read all the posts here more than half were in response to your comments about religion and therefore off-topic. And GGT is right in her interpretation of a better place.

[Illusions]

3. What kind of service would you want when you pass on?

What if our serious answer would ruin the seriousness of the thread?

[GGT]

What if our serious answer would ruin the seriousness of the thread?

It probably wouldn't ruin anything. Seriously.

[Illusions]

It probably wouldn't ruin anything. Seriously.

So a giant machine to fling my corpse comically though the air, or another large machine to perform a marionette play using my deceased corpse as the puppet would not ruin the thread? Honestly I do occasionally like to think up different darkly humorous things to do with what will eventually be my corpse for whatever eventual funeral will happen in the future.

Its doubtful you'd have expected this answer, hence why I asked the question in the first place.

[GGT]

So a giant machine to fling my corpse comically though the air, or another large machine to perform a marionette play using my deceased corpse as the puppet would not ruin the thread? Honestly I do occasionally like to think up different darkly humorous things to do with what will eventually be my corpse for whatever eventual funeral will happen in the future.

Its doubtful you'd have expected this answer, hence why I asked the question in the first place.

How would you leave instructions for that kind of thing? And not to be a party pooper, but you'll be dead, so how would you know what they decide to do with your corpse?

[GGT]

Another thing I've learned about handling Death: unexpected things will call up your memory and hit you like a ton of bricks.

People like to say a death loss gets easier over time, and it does. But it never really goes away. Every future funeral you attend will remind you of the people you loved and buried. When you see people crying at funerals, it may be for their loved one (not necessarily the one being memorialized). Movies can trigger unexpected crying jags or an inexplicable sense of loss, even years later.

These emotions pop up, seemingly out of nowhere, when you least expect it. Those around you may not understand, and it's not easy to explain. It's also a strange concept when both parents have died. Doesn't matter how old you are, it's just weird. Your whole life at least one parent has been "around", and then they're both gone. It's odd to be an adult and feel like an orphan (or something with a better word). Suddenly you're the final grown-up, the oldest person in the family lineage, the Elder.

Neither of my sisters had children, so my kids are their only young blood relatives. I've tried to talk about this with them, but it's too hard, too emotional. They tend to cluck around like grandmas, but they're Aunts--so it doesn't really work. Once in a while they'll say something off-the-cuff like, "Well when I'm old and senile and you'll be taking care of me....." and I've had to ask them to stop that, even though they say it with love and humor. I cringe at the notion that my boys would feel pressure to take care of their Aunts, as well as their mother and father, in our dotage. Let alone being responsible for our terminal care, plus our death dealings. Funerals, burials and memorials.

[Knux897]

Sorry but the only one who said "higher" place was you, I said better place and then explained it further in my second post.

Enough said. btw, before I post anything in future I will be certain to:
1. poll all forum members to see if the majority are atheists so I don't post anything religious,
2. poll all forum members to see if the majority are they are female so I don't post anything offensive to feminists
3. poll all forum members to see if the majority are Yankee fans to ensure I don't post anything praising the Red Sox
4. poll all forum members to see if the majority are Republicans so I don't make Sarah Palin jokes
5. poll all forum members to see if the majority are Communists so I don't extol the virtues of democracy

OK I think you get the picture. People are free to interpret any post as they see fit. If they are offended they are also free to ignore the post and get on with their life. I think if you read all the posts here more than half were in response to your comments about religion and therefore off-topic. And GGT is right in her interpretation of a better place.

This is ridiculous. Higher place, and better place are generally the same thing. I never said I was offended and you took this way out of context. All I did was think it was odd that you would post something "apparently religious" in a community like this. I wasn't offended, I was just trying to give you a heads up and instead everyone freaks out about it.

[Omega]

This is ridiculous. Higher place, and better place are generally the same thing. I never said I was offended and you took this way out of context. All I did was think it was odd that you would post something "apparently religious" in a community like this. I wasn't offended, I was just trying to give you a heads up and instead everyone freaks out about it.

A mountain is equivalent to a nicer and better neighborhood? When did that happen?

The man has what, nine posts on here? Allow him to interact with everyone and don't poison the well right off the bat, i'm sure no one was going to attack him for his religious and/or political views, well not until he got kamfy.

[termite]

Commiserations to you BigJim, thanks for sharing.

Every death is different, when my Mums mother died (dementia) I was 12 and I coped by thinking that she would no longer suffer the indignity of living with severe dementia in a nursing home that was basically death row without the chance of appeal. Her funeral was bleak - her husband was a strong silent type and did not stand on ceremony and he had endured his wife being locked up in a home while he was able to continue to live his life as normal, it was all very grim.

My Dad's father (heart attack) was different, by then I was 14 and his sudden death really broke me up, I cried a lot at the funeral service and it took me a long time to put his death into perspective - he died almost instantly from a massive cardiac arrest while playing golf with his mates aged 70. By comparison with my Grans death in an awful place not knowing what was happening around her this would have been an acceptable end for my Grandad. I was shocked at his wake by all the laughter and it seemed strange that people were celebrating - my Grandad was dead! I soon came to realise that celebrating a life is a far better way to cope with death than focusing on the end or the gloom surrounding it.

Unfortunately I have endured a lot of death since then, my brother died suddenly when I was 15, my dad died on my 22nd birthday and my two other grandparents died soon after (my step-grandmother died earlier this year). I have also lost a few friends along the way but I keep in mind with every one of them the contrast between the grim loss of my Grandmother and the party like send off of my Grandad.

It is interesting that Knux brought religion into the discussion though, most of my family funeral services have had little or no religion because we are not religious.

The most infuriating funeral I ever attended was a friend of mine that died from cancer as a 21 year old, he had fought bravely since his first encounter with the disease as a 12 year old. He was a free spirit type and he was handsome with blonde hair and blue eyes - he never cut his hair after the surgery and chemo. During those few years of remission (we thought he was cured but he always knew it could come back) he surfed and partied and packed as much into his life as he could. Religion was not one of those things, it just wasn't a part of his life so when I attended his funeral and endured over an hour of some fucking catholic priest crapping on about the holy goat it really pissed me off. He barely mentioned my friends name while preaching his gospel in a way that demeaned what our friend was all about. Fucking stupid Irish prick even got the few details about my mate mixed up...

So while every death is different just as every life is different, it is the life and its achievements, its highlights and lowlights and funny moments that I like to celebrate when farewelling a loved one and not the death itself or some blathering about Jebus or Alla or Buddha or whatever faery you or your loved ones choose to gamble your existence on.

[Knux897]

A mountain is equivalent to a nicer and better neighborhood? When did that happen?

The man has what, nine posts on here? Allow him to interact with everyone and don't poison the well right off the bat, i'm sure no one was going to attack him for his religious and/or political views, well not until he got kamfy.

Again for the third time, I did not attack him. I was giving him a heads up

[termite]

Again for the third time, I did not attack him. I was giving him a heads up

It was a pointless and unnecessary heads up since BigJim knows very well what he is talking about.

Your contribution to this thread has been to completely miss the point.

[Illusions]

How would you leave instructions for that kind of thing? And not to be a party pooper, but you'll be dead, so how would you know what they decide to do with your corpse?

A will, and a nice payment for a neutral 3rd party upon completion of the tasks necessary for the spectacle...

[Veldan Rath]

Except that your spectacle (while very funny), would be illegal. TONS of laws on how to handle a human body.

GGT, yer right about the Death Industry. It's a sham and P&T Bullshit had a great episode on it.