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Thread: Another Example of Retardation

  1. #1

    Default Another Example of Retardation

    This case is just disgusting.

    http://reason.com/archives/2010/11/1...tkens-mistake/

    ************************************

    Sue Aitken called the police because she was worried about her son, Brian. She now lives with the guilt of knowing that her phone call is the reason Brian spent his 27th birthday in a New Jersey prison last month. If the state gets its way, he will be there for the next seven years.

    Aitken was sentenced in August after he was convicted of felony possession of a handgun. Before his arrest, Aitken, an entrepreneur and owner of a media consulting business, had no criminal record, and it appears he made a good-faith effort to comply with New Jersey's stringent gun laws. Even the jurors who convicted him seem to have been looking for a reason to acquit him. But the judge gave them little choice. Aitken's best hope now is executive clemency. He is petitioning New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie for a reprieve this week.

    Aitken, born and raised in New Jersey, moved to Colorado several years ago. In Colorado he married his now ex-wife, also originally from New Jersey. The two had a son together. When the marriage dissolved, Atiken's wife and infant son moved back to New Jersey. Aitken eventually decided to move back as well in order to be closer to his son. Beginning in late 2008, he took the first of several trips between the two states, a back-and-forth process that involved selling his house in Colorado, moving his possessions across the country, and finding a job and a new place to live back east. Until he could find a new apartment, he stored his belongings at his parents' home in Burlington County.

    In December 2008 Aitken made a final trip back to Colorado to collect the last of his possessions, including the three handguns he had legally purchased in Colorado—transactions that required him to pass a federal background check. Aitken and his friend Michael Torries had found an apartment in Hoboken, and Torries accompanied Aitken to Colorado to help with the last leg of the move. According to testimony Torries later gave at Aitken's trial, before leaving Colorado Aitken researched and printed out New Jersey and federal gun laws to be sure he moved his firearms legally. Richard Gilbert, Aitken's trial attorney, says Aitken also called the New Jersey State Police to get advice on how to legally transport his guns, although Burlington County Superior Court Judge James Morley didn't allow testimony about that phone call at Aitken's trial.

    Aitken's legal troubles began in January 2009, when he drove to his parents' house to pick up some of his belongings. He had grown distraught over tensions with his ex-wife, who according to Aitken had been refusing to let him see his son. When Aitken visited his parents' house, his mother, Sue Aitken, grew worried about his mental state. In an interview with a New Jersey radio program last week, she said she works with children who have mental health problems, and she has always been taught to call police as a precaution when someone appears despondent and shows any sign that he might harm himself. Concerned about her son, she called 911 but then thought better of it and hung up the phone. The police responded anyway. When they arrived at her home, Sue Aitken told them her concerns about her son, and the police called Brian Aitken, who was then en route to Hoboken, on his cell phone. They asked him to turn around and come back to his parents' house. He complied.

    It was there that the police confronted Aitken. Although they determined he wasn't a threat to himself or anyone else, they searched his car, where they found his handguns. They were locked, unloaded, and stored in the trunk, as federal and New Jersey law require for guns in transport. The police arrested Aitken anyway, charging him with unlawful possession of a weapon.

    To buy a gun in New Jersey, you must go through a laborious process to obtain a "purchaser's permit." But that permit doesn't entitle you to possess a gun. A few select groups of people, mostly off-duty police officers and security personnel, can obtain carry permits. But anyone else with a gun is presumed to be violating state law and must defend against the charge of illegal gun possession by claiming one of the state's exemptions.

    Evan Nappen, who is representing Aitken in his appeal, likens the process to claiming self-defense in a murder case. "If you kill someone because they're about to kill you first," he says, "you're still guilty of homicide. You have to prove you should be granted the exception for self-defense. It's the same thing for just about all New Jersey gun owners. You're guilty until you prove that you're innocent.”

    The exemptions allow New Jersey residents to have guns in their homes, while hunting or at a shooting range, while traveling to or from hunting grounds or a shooting range, and when traveling between residences. Brian Aitken claimed he was moving between residences, and there is pretty strong evidence that he was. Sue Aitken testified that her son was moving his belongings from her house to his. So did Aitken's roommate. One of the police officers at the scene testified that Aitken's car was filled with personal belongings.

    Yet Judge Morley wouldn't allow Aitken to claim the exemption for transporting guns between residences. He wouldn't even let the jury know about it. During deliberations, the jurors asked three times about exceptions to the law, which suggests they weren't comfortable convicting Aitken. Morley refused to answer them all three times. Gilbert and Nappen, Aitken's lawyers, say he also should have been protected by a federal law that forbids states from prosecuting gun owners who are transporting guns between residences. Morley would not let Aitken cite that provision either.

    In response to a query about why Aitken wasn't granted the moving exception, the Burlington County Prosecutor's Office replied via email, "There was no evidence produced at the trial by the defendant that warranted such a defense." Gilbert says that isn't true. "We put on plenty of evidence that Brian was moving," he says, "including testimony from his mother, his roommate, even the police officer who arrested him."

    In a telephone interview, Morley (who lost his job when Gov. Christie declined to reappoint him in June because of rulings in unrelated cases) says he didn't allow the jury to consider the moving exception because "it wasn't relevant." Echoing the prosecutor's office, Morley says: "There was no evidence that Mr. Aitken was moving. He was trying to argue that the law should give him this broad window extending over several weeks to justify driving around with guns in his car. There was also some evidence that Mr. Aitken wasn't moving at all when he was arrested, but had stored the guns in his car because his roommate was throwing a party, and he didn't want the guns in the apartment while guests were there drinking."

    Gilbert and Nappen say the story about the party came not from Aitken, his parents, or his roommate but from a faulty police report. In any case, Nappen adds, it was not Morley's job to decide whether Aitken was moving. "That's a question of fact, not law, and questions of fact are supposed to be determined by the jury," he says. "The judge is supposed to instruct the jury on the law, and in this case he refused to let them even hear it. But besides that, for him to say there was no evidence presented that Brian was moving just isn't true."

    Without the exception, the jury's job was easy. In New Jersey, possession of a firearm without a permit is a felony, punishable by a mandatory minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum of 10. Aitken was convicted and sentenced to seven.

    "New Jersey gun laws are insane," Nappen says. "It makes a criminal of every gun owner and forces him to prove his innocence." Worse, in 2008 the New Jersey legislature and then-Gov. John Corzine changed the law to make the penalty for possessing a gun the same as the penalty for using it to commit a separate crime. That means someone like Aitken gets the same punishment as someone who assaults another person with a gun. In November 2008, New Jersey Attorney General Anne Milgram issued a directive (PDF) urging the state's prosecutors to apply the new law "vigorously," "strictly," and "uniformly."

    Even with Milgram's directive and the state's draconian gun laws, prosecutors have some discretion. They could have decided that Aitken plausibly thought he qualified for the moving exception or that, even without the exception, it wouldn't be in the interest of justice to charge him with a felony punishable by five to 10 years in prison. There is no evidence that Aitken threatened anyone with his guns or intended to use them for any nefarious purpose. Even the version of events least favorable to Aitken—that he put the guns in his trunk to keep them away from party guests who might have been drinking—shows him to be a responsible and conscientious gun owner. Even Morley acknowledges as much. "I can see the point that taking the guns away from the party might have been the responsible thing to do," he says. But he adds that acting responsibly did not entitle Aitken to the moving exception.

    Putting Brian Aitken in prison isn't going to make New Jersey any safer. It might, however, make some of the state's residents think twice before calling the police, particularly if they own guns. It might even make some New Jersey gun owners wonder if they have more to fear from the state's ridiculous laws and overly aggressive cops and prosecutors than they do from criminals. Given what happened to Aitken, those fears wouldn't be unfounded.

    *********************

    The party of big government strikes again.

    Of course remember these are liberals. Liberals who love to argue against justified lengthy or permanent sentences for child molesters! So lets do a comparison in the state of New Jersey. What other crime is similar to carrying a weapon while traveling and doing nothing harmful with it?

    Oh yes that would be child molestation.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/28/ny...uld-reach.html

    "
    He had pleaded guilty twice before to sexually assaulting small children. In 1981, a judge had labeled him a "compulsive, repetitive sexual offender." Then, after he had served more than seven years for his two crimes, he and two other convicted child molesters quietly moved here, into a neighborhood of split-level homes where people tend their gardens and their children well. Not long afterward, Megan Kanka was killed.
    "

    Seven years for TWO convictions on sexually assaulting small children. Thats it? And liberals argued against things like Megan's law? They took the side of sick predators after the most vulnerable of society but if its a gun case... Oh no its time to give him a sentence equal to a "compulsive, repetitive sexual offender."

    The criminal justice system in New Jersey is pathetic.

  2. #2
    Craziness aside, I'm told he had already moved in like 2008 and this occurred in like 2009, so in reality he had definitely moved. His mum and his friend testified that he'd moved
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  3. #3
    Bringing this up in the context of "look at this stupidity" might be fairly tedious, but legitimate. Bringing it up as "retarded liberals" is just trolling. We could do a lot of this liberals-conservative BS if we wanted, but you are the only one to do so. Cut it out.

  4. #4
    Lewk, do you really expect people to give your articles and opinions due consideration when they're placed under a thread title like this one?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Lewk, do you really expect people to give your articles and opinions due consideration when they're placed under a thread title like this one?
    Well, on a serious note, the title actually aroused my attention. The only reason as wyh I read such a long article was because of the inflamatory title. :/

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Lewk, do you really expect people to give your articles and opinions due consideration when they're placed under a thread title like this one?
    The article speaks for itself. The thread title sums up my view. I didn't say all liberals were retarded. Just the ones that support these types of draconian gun laws and/or the ones who enable and actively support child molesters by suggesting any punishment less then life in prison or death for the rape of children.

  7. #7
    and this is why its like talking to a brick wall.

  8. #8
    Neither the word "liberal" nor "democrat" appears in the article. The fact that you make this about "liberals" even though it is about gun control or a bad judge makes you a fucking troll.

  9. #9
    I do think the thread title is needlessly provocative, so changing it to regular garden-variety retardation.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I do think the thread title is needlessly provocative, so changing it to regular garden-variety retardation.
    Sigh... welcome to PC land everybody.

  11. #11
    It's not exactly politically correct to blame this on retards in general Dread. And moderators shouldn't be changing content, even if it's just the title. If it's offensive enough then delete it. Otherwise, leave it alone.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  12. #12
    Can we not agree move these turds to GC?

    By the way, I don't see the big fuss about the title. It describes the OP pretty accurately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Sigh... welcome to PC land everybody.
    Why don't you put your money where your mouth is, vote with your feet and get the fuck out?

    Or

    Shut the fuck up with the incessant whining about "libruls" and post an article without going "remember these are liberals" and all that crap. Then you may find that instead of people talking about your trolling, the subject is discussed. I propose to retry this thread without using or referring to any political stance.
    Last edited by Ziggy Stardust; 12-07-2010 at 09:01 AM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Can we not agree move these turds to GC?
    I was thinking the trash bin, but that's a start.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  14. #14
    Just Floatin... termite's Avatar
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    Lewk managed to post an article that was interesting, it did highlight some apparent miscarriage of justice and the sequence of events in the article did piss me off a bit but Lewk managed to fuck that up with his retarded comments about liberals.
    Such is Life...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by termite View Post
    Lewk managed to post an article that was interesting, it did highlight some apparent miscarriage of justice and the sequence of events in the article did piss me off a bit but Lewk managed to fuck that up with his retarded comments about liberals.
    Big picture folks. The liberal ideology that supports a rabid intolerance for guns in society and the liberal ideology of not punishing child rapists was the point of the post.

    Why would I just post the article as is without drawing a larger picture? So everyone can chime in and say "wow NJ messed that one up." That wouldn't be a discussion.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    The liberal ideology that supports a rabid intolerance for guns in society and the liberal ideology of not punishing child rapists was the point of the post.
    Since you have shown in the past you consider me a liberal, I can say this from the bottom of my heart.

    Fuck you Lewk. Fuck you very much.

    Dread: Now was that necessary?

    No, this asshole just said I don't want child rapist punished, no big deal right?

    Lewk: I didn't say all liberals.

    Just shut the fuck up. Really.

    Was that adequately non-PC for you?
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  17. #17
    newsflash Lewk, you failed, again. I'm not even taking about the big picture you completely fabricated.

    1 reply in response to the trial (no discussion on LIBERALZ) and everyone else pointing out that you are a trolling idiot. Thats not a discussion, and I don't believe you are honestly capable of holding a discussion that belongs in D&D.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Sigh... welcome to PC land everybody.
    Really? I thought it was "don't be a dick" land.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Big picture folks. The liberal ideology that supports a rabid intolerance for guns in society and the liberal ideology of not punishing child rapists was the point of the post.
    So what about the conservative ideology that supports a rabid intolerance for alleged criminals and the conservative ideology of extremely harsh punishments? I'm sure I could find an article or two where Texas has executed an innocent person...
    . . .

  20. #20
    You hinting at Claude Jones or Cameron Willingham?

    Oh wait, I see what you did

  21. #21
    They mostly execute minorities so that's okay, but we can't have the chance that even one child is harmed!

    It's too bad the US far right is so much in bed with McReligion, they're insane about reproductive issues. Birth control should be in the tap water and you'd have to go to a doctor if you wanted a kid; I wonder if that could be rigged so that people'd have a reduced sex drive, too, that'd deal with the pedos to a degree. But the righters go nuts when you fluoridate water, for Pete's sake.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  22. #22
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Yeah Lewk, I have to agree with most of the sentiment here. This is about the hard-core anti gun crowd and the laws that have sprung up about them. Not Dems or Liberals.

    There are plenty of Dems and dare I say Libs that don't find guns horrifying.
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  23. #23
    Fluoridation = communism.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Yeah Lewk, I have to agree with most of the sentiment here. This is about the hard-core anti gun crowd and the laws that have sprung up about them. Not Dems or Liberals.

    There are plenty of Dems and dare I say Libs that don't find guns horrifying.
    Of the two dominant political ideologies in America which has traditionally been for gun control? Furthermore NJ is a blue state further pointing the finger at liberals who created the absurd gun laws over there. Yes not *all* liberals are in favor of these types of laws but liberal ideology supports gun control.

  25. #25
    Just an FYI,

    you're an asshole.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Yes not *all* liberals are in favor of these types of laws but liberal ideology supports gun control.
    What is the purpose behind statements such as this? You draw a vague connection between barely defined political position and some poorly defined loose group of people. That's not information, that's pure propaganda.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  27. #27
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Of the two dominant political ideologies in America which has traditionally been for gun control? Furthermore NJ is a blue state further pointing the finger at liberals who created the absurd gun laws over there. Yes not *all* liberals are in favor of these types of laws but liberal ideology supports gun control.
    Your brush is too broad. And that is what is driving the Community nuts. Just shotgunning (ha ha get it?) half the population with your dissatisfaction doesn't help those that agree with you. You need to be concise and target (ha ha did it again) the particulars.

    In this case, the subject of your ire is Rabid Anti-Gun laws that don't do anything but put people in jail that did not have any criminal intent...(Law of Unintended Consequences, or better yet, Feel Good, Do Nothing Laws...kinda like the Drug War which is, for the most part a Conservative Dumb-Ass Campaign of Moralizing).
    Last edited by Veldan Rath; 12-07-2010 at 05:36 PM. Reason: Trademarking all the above!
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Your brush is too broad. And that is what is driving the Community nuts. Just shotgunning (ha ha get it?) half the population with your dissatisfaction doesn't help those that agree with you. You need to be concise and target (ha ha did it again) the particulars.

    In this case, the subject of your ire is Rabid Anti-Gun laws that don't do anything but put people in jail that did not have any criminal intent...(Law of Unintended Consequences, or better yet, Feel Good, Do Nothing Laws...kinda like the Drug War which is, for the most part a Conservative Dumb-Ass Campaign of Moralizing).
    Well put.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    What is the purpose behind statements such as this? You draw a vague connection between barely defined political position and some poorly defined loose group of people. That's not information, that's pure propaganda.
    It is not a vague connection. The purpose of the statement is to clarify I don't refer to ALL liberals just to those that hold that view point. And that is because each time I don't put a disclaimer everyone likes to point out that my statement isn't universal to all liberals. Which should be obvious since no political movement has adherents who believe each plank of the platform.

  30. #30
    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    It is not a vague connection. The purpose of the statement is to clarify I don't refer to ALL liberals just to those that hold that view point. And that is because each time I don't put a disclaimer everyone likes to point out that my statement isn't universal to all liberals. Which should be obvious since no political movement has adherents who believe each plank of the platform.
    While that it is true Lewk, your posting method comes across as attacking all on the USA Left and in attacking most of the Lefty Posters (TM) on this forum.
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