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Thread: Don't ask don't tell

  1. #181
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    My position is that he just doesn't care. And the notion that a piece of legislation has to wait because other legislation is being finalized is too ridiculous for words; the legislative process is not like a car factory assembly line. Or do you really want me to believe that the Pentagon had a significant role in the passing of Obama care and that all committees dealing with the military were iceboxed during the first two years of this shining new presidency?

    The fact of the matter is that - like LF said - Obama has proven himself to be a political coward. The US made the senator that didn't vote the president who doesn't govern.
    Congratulations America

  2. #182

  3. #183
    “Today leaders of both parties let down the U.S. military and the American people,” said Joe Solmonese, president of Human Rights Campaign. “Instead of doing what is right, ‘the world’s greatest deliberative body’ devolved into shameful schoolyard spats that put petty partisan politics above the needs of our women and men in uniform.”
    Morons.

  4. #184
    Mccain is a moron, he said he agreed with his wife (which he doesn't) and he stipulated that if extensive study was conducted regarding the sentiments felt by the straight officers in regards of homosexuals serving alongside with them, he'd change his views accordingly (which he hasn't).

    is there any way I can increase the probability of inducing a heart attack without it directly being labeled as "murder"?

  5. #185
    is there any way I can increase the probability of inducing a heart attack without it directly being labeled as "murder"?
    Hold up some playboy pictures while he's giving a speech.

  6. #186
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    McCain is a lowlife anyway.
    Congratulations America

  7. #187
    Northeast Republicans pushing for a last ditch vote:
    December 18, 2010
    Repeal of ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ Advances
    By CARL HULSE
    WASHINGTON — Capping a 17-year political struggle, the Senate on Saturday cleared the way for repealing the Pentagon’s ban on gay men and lesbians serving openly in the military.

    By a vote of 63 to 33, with six Republicans joining Democrats, the Senate acted to cut off debate on a measure that would let President Obama declare an end to the Clinton-era policy, known as “don’t ask, don’t tell,” which allows gay members of the armed forces to serve only if they keep their sexual orientation a secret. The vote indicated that there was easily enough support to push the measure to final passage.

    The vote put Congress at the brink of a historic moment that some equated with the decision to end racial segregation in the military. It followed a review by the Pentagon that found little concern in the military about ending the ban and that was backed by Pentagon officials as a better alternative to a court-ordered end.

    Backers of the repeal said it was long past time to end what they saw as a discriminatory practice that cost valuable personnel and forced troops to lie to serve their country.

    “I don’t care who you love,” Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon, said as the debate opened. “If you love this country enough to risk your life for it, you shouldn’t have to hide who you are.”

    Mr. Wyden showed up for the Senate vote despite saying on Friday that he would be unable to do so because he would be undergoing final tests before his scheduled surgery for prostate cancer on Monday.

    The vote came in the final days of the 111th Congress as Democrats sought to force through a final few priorities before they turn over control of the House of Representatives to the Republicans in January and see their clout in the Senate diminished.

    It represented a significant victory for the White House, Congressional advocates of lifting the ban and activists who have pushed for years to end the Pentagon policy created in 1993 under the Clinton administration as a compromise effort to end the practice of banning gay men and lesbians entirely from military service. Activists said it represented an emotional moment for members of the gay community nationwide.

    Opponents of lifting the ban said the change could harm the unit cohesion that is essential to effective military operations, particularly in combat, and deter some Americans from enlisting or pursuing a career in the military. They noted that despite support for repealing the ban from Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, other military commanders have warned that changing the practice would prove disruptive.

    “This isn’t broke,” Senator James M. Inhofe, Republican of Oklahoma, said of about the policy. “It is working very well.”

    Other Republicans said that while the policy might be need to changed at some point, Congress should not intrude on the issue now when American troops are fighting overseas.

    “In the middle of a military conflict, is not the time to do it,” said Senator Saxby Chambliss, Republican of Georgia.

    The vote to lift the ban came after the Senate blocked — and effectively killed for this year — a measure that would have allowed some younger illegal immigrants to gain legal status by attending college or serving in the military.

    Backers of that measure, known as the Dream Act, said it would have aided those who, through no fault of their own, were brought into the country illegally by their parents. But opponents said the initiative had the potential for fraud and amounted to a path to amnesty. The vote was 55 to 41, five votes short of the 60 necessary for the measure to advance.

    Only a week ago, the effort to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy seemed to be dead and in danger of fading for at least two years with Republicans about to take control of the House. The provision eliminating the ban was initially included in a broader Pentagon policy bill, and Republican backers of repeal had refused to join in cutting off a filibuster against the underlying bill because of objections over the ability to debate the measure.

    In a last-ditch effort, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, and Senator Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, encouraged Democratic Congressional leaders to instead pursue a vote on simply repealing the ban. The House passed the measure earlier in the week.

    The Senate must take a second vote to approve the repeal and send it to President Obama for his signature. The repeal would not take effect for at least 60 days while some other procedural steps are taken. In addition the bill requires the defense secretary to determine that policies are in place to carry out the repeal “consistent with military standards for readiness, effectiveness, unit cohesion, and recruiting and retention.”

    Mr. Lieberman said the ban undermined the integrity of the military by forcing troops to lie. He said 14,000 members of the armed forces had been forced to leave the ranks under the policy.

    “What a waste,” he said.

    The fight erupted in the early days of President Bill Clinton’s administration and has been a roiling political issue ever since. Mr. Obama endorsed repeal in his own campaign and advocates saw the current Congress as their best opportunity for ending the ban. Dozens of advocates of ending the ban — including one wounded in combat before being forced from the military — watched from the Senate gallery as the debate took place.

    Senator Carl Levin, the Michigan Democrat who is chairman of the Armed Services Committee, dismissed Republican complaints that Democrats were trying to race through the repeal to satisfy their political supporters.

    “I’m not here for partisan reasons,” Mr. Levin said. “I’m here because men and women wearing the uniform of the United States who are gay and lesbian have died for this country, because gay and lesbian men and women wearing the uniform of this country have their lives on the line right now.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us...cs/19cong.html

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    McCain is a lowlife anyway.
    Well hell then, don't hold back! Call him something racist!

  9. #189
    Repeal of this vile "Don't Ask" policy passed the Senate and the House, now it's for Obama to sign.

  10. #190
    It's about damn time! yay!

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Repeal of this vile "Don't Ask" policy passed the Senate and the House, now it's for Obama to sign.
    Let's see if the White House has the gall to claim victory.
    Congratulations America

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Let's see if the White House has the gall to claim victory.
    I hope so, he's achieved his pledge via Congress as planned, that's more than I expected 2 years ago.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I hope so, he's achieved his pledge via Congress as planned, that's more than I expected 2 years ago.
    Except that he didn't. The White House wasn't part of the effort for this stand-alone bill. His efforts went nowhere and so much so that people thought the policy would stay in place untill the courts did away with it.
    Congratulations America

  14. #194
    An interesting point...the White House certainly didn't push for it. Though I imagine they will use passing this as a message to various elements of their "base" come 2012. Candidly, this is one of the few completely good things to come out of the 111th Congress.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Except that he didn't. The White House wasn't part of the effort for this stand-alone bill. His efforts went nowhere and so much so that people thought the policy would stay in place untill the courts did away with it.
    He's President and pushed for Congress to repeal the bill; Congress repealed the bill. Job done.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    He's President and pushed for Congress to repeal the bill; Congress repealed the bill. Job done.
    Where was he pushing again? What leverage did he bring to bear? A lot of us homos have Sen. Collins and Liberman to thank more than Pres. Obama
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan Rath View Post
    Where was he pushing again? What leverage did he bring to bear? A lot of us homos have Sen. Collins and Liberman to thank more than Pres. Obama
    So I hope Obama doesn't claim sole credit.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    So I hope Obama doesn't claim sole credit.
    Or any for that matter. If it were for his efforts DADT would still be fully in place. Cole and Liberman had the guts to try something that everybody thought impossible to achieve. Not something the Coward in Chief is known for.

    I don't think by the way this entirely voids the cases that are in court at the moment.
    Congratulations America

  19. #199
    I garuntee you he'll sign the bill into law. I garauntee that he wants DADT to be repealled. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if part of why he allowed the current taxation bill to move foreward as planned was to show compromise and get the republicans to pass some democratic motions. Was this at the top of his list, was this important for him to do? Yes for two reasons, one it refreshes the TBGT community support, and two he wanted to pass it.

    Also, I think part of the reason he stopped the judges motion was because he wanted it to be done through the politcal system, and for him to get more credit for its repeal.

    Hazir Most Dems expected this to get passed relatively soon and it did get passed. I don't see why Obama wouldn't want to support it, in fact i'm sure he does.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Or any for that matter. If it were for his efforts DADT would still be fully in place. Cole and Liberman had the guts to try something that everybody thought impossible to achieve. Not something the Coward in Chief is known for.

    I don't think by the way this entirely voids the cases that are in court at the moment.
    It was repealed within the first half of his watch, I don't see how that's cowardice, not withstanding your long-standing hatred of the man.

    Had the political system failed to repeal this then your allegation could stick, but it didn't in the end so it doesn't.

  21. #201
    Like always, when something bad happens, the most important thing to decide is who is to blame. When something good happens, the most important thing to decide is, who not to credit.

    Anyway. Well done USA
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
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  22. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    It was repealed within the first half of his watch, I don't see how that's cowardice, not withstanding your long-standing hatred of the man.

    Had the political system failed to repeal this then your allegation could stick, but it didn't in the end so it doesn't.
    You miss the point of how we got here. The 'Obama' way to repeal DADT was dead in the water because he attached it to a military spending bill that the Republicans weren't going to vote on in this Congress.

    Once his glorious approach failed, everybody thought DADT was going to stay for the time being. Then two senators took the initative and did something really bold: They proposed a stand-alone bill in order to repeal DADT, they succeeded where Obama failed. They succeeded where everybody thought success was impossible because the previous attempt was such a huge failure.

    The only contribution to this success will be his signature on the bill. Other than that his efforts (if any) led to nothing.
    Congratulations America

  23. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    You miss the point of how we got here. The 'Obama' way to repeal DADT was dead in the water because he attached it to a military spending bill that the Republicans weren't going to vote on in this Congress.
    Likewise with the 9/11 responders bill

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...esponders-bill
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
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  24. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    You miss the point of how we got here. The 'Obama' way to repeal DADT was dead in the water because he attached it to a military spending bill that the Republicans weren't going to vote on in this Congress.

    Once his glorious approach failed, everybody thought DADT was going to stay for the time being. Then two senators took the initative and did something really bold: They proposed a stand-alone bill in order to repeal DADT, they succeeded where Obama failed. They succeeded where everybody thought success was impossible because the previous attempt was such a huge failure.

    The only contribution to this success will be his signature on the bill. Other than that his efforts (if any) led to nothing.
    Democrat President took lead, Republican Partisans blocked it. Democrat President stepped back and said Congress should still resolve it, Multi-party Senators took lead and a cross-party super-majority passed it.

    That's politics, not cowardice. As for being dead in the water, the idea of a stand-alone bill proposed by the Senators who proposed it was mooted in this thread earlier so that's odd. It isn't the Presidents job to control the Senate, he's done his job here.

  25. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Democrat President took lead, Republican Partisans blocked it. Democrat President stepped back and said Congress should still resolve it, Multi-party Senators took lead and a cross-party super-majority passed it.

    That's politics, not cowardice. As for being dead in the water, the idea of a stand-alone bill proposed by the Senators who proposed it was mooted in this thread earlier so that's odd. It isn't the Presidents job to control the Senate, he's done his job here.
    <facepalm>

    A President's job is just to sit and await bills to hit his desk? He saw this as just another political ouchie and ran screaming from it.

    If Collins and Liberman did not bring this up as a stand alone...it would have stayed dead.

    Rand, he dropped this like a hot potato, the he did nothing to get this through. Congress and the Senate pushed this through.

    Kudos to the Senate and Congress...Obama gets to sign the bill...that he did not fight for. He like is, but did not fight for it.
    Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

  26. #206
    If he'd lost the election and we had President McCain now, would DADT be getting cancelled via the democratic process?

  27. #207
    Rand is right. Obama's administration should be credited with this monumental civil rights progression.

    I was angry and frustrated that it seemed to take so long, that Obama had campaigned on this issue but left it to congress. But that's because our congress has been so lame (duck) and polarized since November elections. There were obvious political maneuverings and power plays in the background, and the time element, and that itself was rather disgusting.

    But the point is, DADT was reversed under the Obama administration, with a Democrat majority in house and senate. If this had been suspended until 2011 with more Republicans in power, we all know it would have been put on the back burner. John McCain + the Tea Party would have made sure of that.

  28. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    If he'd lost the election and we had President McCain now, would DADT be getting cancelled via the democratic process?
    Depends on if he'd have the balls to veto any attempt to cancel it. A good portion of McCain's hostility towards canceling it *along with pretty much every other Republican* is purely that it's a Dem issue and the GOP is in Opposition, which means it has very little to lose by automatic opposition to Dem initiatives.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  29. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Depends on if he'd have the balls to veto any attempt to cancel it. A good portion of McCain's hostility towards canceling it *along with pretty much every other Republican* is purely that it's a Dem issue and the GOP is in Opposition, which means it has very little to lose by automatic opposition to Dem initiatives.
    Well, I have a problem with that. Not just that McCain has become a shell of his former self, contradicting what he said five or ten years ago, or being a flip-flopper for his personal political gain as Arizona elected more conservative legislators.....but that this was our modern challenge to Civil Rights. Those rights shouldn't be a majority vote, yea or nay.

    And it's a basic concept that makes me wonder what the hell the conservative "constitutional lovers" are really all about.

  30. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    And it's a basic concept that makes me wonder what the hell the conservative "constitutional lovers" are really all about.
    Ostensibly they would support a legislative framework that would be constitutionally sound, regardless of the political issue at hand. Cultural conservatives, (members of the moral majority) don't always equal "constitutional lovers," despite how you might seek to paint them, or how they would paint themselves.

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