A) Higher gun ownership deters some types of crimes.Originally Posted by Nessus
B) Higher gun ownership makes it easier to kill people.
It's unclear which effect is larger.
A) Higher gun ownership deters some types of crimes.
B) Higher gun ownership makes it easier to kill people.
It's unclear which effect is larger.
Hope is the denial of reality
And yet our culture is the sick and twisted one. :P
Uh, Dread? Doesn't your description there fit a picture you took?
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/val...th_law_mig.phpArizona's Surprisingly Good Mental Health Laws Might Have Prevented Tragedy
Arizona's mental health laws are among the best in the country and might have been used to get Jared Loughner treatment if applied properly, says Charles "Chick" Arnold, the state's leading expert in mental health law.
"While our system sucks, our statutes are the best in the country," says Arnold -- Arizona's godfather of mental health law and plaintiff in the decades-old funding case Arnold v. Sarn.
Arnold is quick to explain that he doesn't have all the facts about Loughner. But given what is known, he says there's a chance that Pima Community College staff could have at least asked for help.
The lawyer explains that in most states, simple concern for a person's mental health is not enough to ask authorities for an involuntary evaluation.
But in Arizona it is.
The state is among only three or four that allows -- along with "danger to self," "danger to others," and "grave disability" -- a category for the "persistently and acutely disabled."
College authorities might have least argued for that category, Arnold says. "They could have knocked over a domino . . . that might have gotten him treatment."
Threats or reports of disturbing behavior -- like that reported to have led PCC officials to ask Loughner to not come back to school -- are enough to make an "application for an involuntary evaluation," Arnold says.
That would have led to an involuntary visit to a psychiatric emergency room and, depending on that evaluation, a 72-hour evaluation. Those doctors would then file a "petition for treatment" that gets a patient a lawyer and a hearing before a judge.
That hearing, Arnold says, could result in a judge filing the paperwork that would have been "the impediment to him getting a gun."
"But none of that happened," he concludes. "I can't tell yet whether somebody should have done something that they didn't do."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447364/
The Swiss and Canadians also have high gun ownership, but lower gun violence than the US.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16loughner.html?hp
For anyone who actually wants facts about the suspect.
Hope is the denial of reality
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-giffords.htmlArizona Shootings Trigger Surge in Glock Sales Amid Fear of Ban
[...]Arizona gun dealers say that among the biggest sellers in the past few days is the Glock 19 made by privately held Glock GmbH, based in Deutsch-Wagram, Austria, the model used in the shootings.
Sales Jump
One-day sales of handguns in Arizona jumped 60 percent to 263 on Jan. 10 compared with 164 the corresponding Monday a year ago, the second-biggest increase of any state in the country, according to Federal Bureau of Investigation data.
Handgun sales rose 65 percent to 395 in Ohio; 16 percent to 672 in California; 38 percent to 348 in Illinois; and 33 percent to 206 in New York, the FBI data show. Sales increased nationally about 5 percent, to 7,906 guns.
Federally tracked gun sales, which are drawn from sales in gun stores that require a federal background check, also jumped following the 2007 massacre at Virginia Tech, in which 32 people were killed.
“Whenever there is a huge event, especially when it’s close to home, people do tend to run out and buy something to protect their family,” said Don Gallardo, a manager at Arizona Shooter’s World in Phoenix, who said that the number of people signing up for the store’s concealed weapons class doubled over the weekend. Gallardo said he expects handgun sales to climb steadily throughout the week.[...]
For anyone who actually wants facts about gun ownership in America.
WTF
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Eh, I'm not convinced. Nothing would have stopped him from driving his car into a crowded area and killing just as many people in the same period of time.
What about his ability to use a 30-round clip?
What about it? In Japan a similar crazy went on a similar spree, killing and wounding a similar number of people.
The knife he used had nearly infinite uses!
Stricter driving/car ownership laws.
Also portability, ease of aiming, and damage to the car from hitting things would have probably rendered it less effective as a method for killing people compared to a firearm.
. . .
Regarding "lax gun laws". Weren't those clips illegal until recently? Why would anyone (besides a cop or soldier) need to spray 30 bullets in a few seconds?
Zombies.
I think the last time we had anything close was in the 30s when the proto-fascist movement took the president for a ride, but I'm not 100% sure. And of course the communists publicly called for the death of everybody while the CCCP was next door, but eh.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Sixteenth century, guys. England rules.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Used to rule, then you let the brown people govern themselves
LOL
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Recently being 2004? Easily one of the most useless gun control laws in history? No, I don't think that it played a role in this incident what-so-ever.
Eh, I'm not convinced. Nothing would have stopped him from driving his car into a crowded area and killing just as many people in the same period of time.But we aren't talking about cars or knives. '04 is "recent" enough, and whether or not the law was useless in your opinion.....I'm still wondering why anyone would need to shoot 30 rounds?What about it? In Japan a similar crazy went on a similar spree, killing and wounding a similar number of people.
The knife he used had nearly infinite uses!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Lindh
Hope is the denial of reality
It may surprise you to know that Fin-land divorced from Sweden as early as 1809!
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Don't confuse him with the fact that Europe is not a massive state and things like Sweden are not just provinces!
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
I'm confused. Did Dread post a picture of himself wearing a red g-string with a gun in front of his crotch?
More confusion---are you talking about assassinations or attempts? Maybe I'm US-centric, but haven't we had more of those than any other nation in the 20th century?
Last edited by GGT; 01-16-2011 at 03:34 PM.
No, Fuzzy was just making a joke.
Oh really. I recall you posting a picture of some hot babe in Israel with her rifle posed just so. Wondered if I missed something, since I also missed Rand's pic in a maid's outfit (or whatever that was about....)No, Fuzzy was just making a joke.
No joking now, didn't the US have more assassinations and attempted assassinations in the 20th century than any other first world nation? If that's wrong, please correct me.
Seriously?Oh really. I recall you posting a picture of some hot babe in Israel with her rifle posed just so. Wondered if I missed something, since I also missed Rand's pic in a maid's outfit (or whatever that was about....)
No joking now, didn't the US have more assassinations and attempted assassinations in the 20th century than any other first world nation? If that's wrong, please correct me.Italy? Germany? Greece (if you consider it a first world country)? It's not even close. Several European countries had militant communist/anarchist groups that attempted to kill politicians on a regular basis (and succeeded a fair few times, including by killing an Italian Prime Minister).
Hope is the denial of reality
Seriously. Citation requested.Seriously?
I'm actually amazed at how much stuff people have imagined about me over the years. I've shared relatively few hard details about my life beyond assorted experiences, but over the years I've noticed people developing these oddly specific ideas about my age, profession, looks, etc., as if I had ever posted something like a picture like that at all.Oh really. I recall you posting a picture of some hot babe in Israel with her rifle posed just so. Wondered if I missed something, since I also missed Rand's pic in a maid's outfit (or whatever that was about....)
Get informed. Not here to do your homework. You could start with the Italian Red Brigades and the German Red Army Faction.
Would it be asking for too much for you to not make grossly uninformed statements without making some minimal effort to verify their accuracy?
Hope is the denial of reality
For the US I've found
McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt attempt
Huey Long
Truman attempt
JFK
Medgar Evers
Lee Harvey Oswald
Malcolm X
Martin Luther King
Bobby Kennedy
George Wallace attempt
Nixon attempt
Gerry Ford attempts
Harvey Milk
Leo Ryan
Ronald Reagan attempt
GW Bush attempt
Jay Nixon
Gabby Giffords attempt
(some include Harrison attempts and Lennon's death in there...but I excluded those)
That's a crap load of assassinations and/or attempts for 1900-2000 for just one nation.
See above. These were mostly isolated incidents. The Germans and Italians had constant attacks.
Hope is the denial of reality
WWII had plenty of crap going on. Everyone was trying to kill everyone. I'm asking for a source showing that US leaders were NOT top of the list from 1900-2000.
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