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Thread: Obama to Cut Budget

  1. #1

    Default Obama to Cut Budget

    WASHINGTON — President Obama, who is proposing his third annual budget on Monday, will say that it can reduce projected deficits by $1.1 trillion over the next decade, enough to stabilize the nation’s fiscal health and buy time to address its longer-term problems, according to a senior administration official.

    Two-thirds of the reductions that Mr. Obama will claim are from cuts in spending, including in many domestic programs that he supports. Among the reductions for just the next fiscal year, 2012, which starts Oct. 1, are more than $1 billion from airport grants and nearly $1 billion from grants to states for water treatment plants and similar projects. Public health and forestry programs would also be cut.

    Home energy assistance to low-income families and community service block grants would be cut in half, and an initiative to restore the Great Lakes’ environmental health would be reduced by one-quarter.

    The administration readily concedes, even boasts, that the president will not win any race to outcut Republicans. In the House, Republicans are trying to slash up to $100 billion in the current fiscal year alone before they begin writing their own proposed budget for 2012 and beyond.

    But the administration contends that its plan would leave the country in better overall fiscal health than the path Republicans envision. Even as they seek to downsize domestic programs, they would exempt the Pentagon from budget reductions, make permanent all the Bush-era tax cuts that are to expire at the end of 2012 and repeal cost-saving provisions of the health care law.

    Extending Bush tax cuts — for some

    Mr. Obama would also extend the Bush tax cuts, but not for people whose taxable income is more than $250,000 a year. His budget does not count that proposed change as a savings; in fact, the huge revenue loss from extending the tax cuts for all income below that amount is included in his deficit projections for the remainder of the decade.

    By 2015, the senior administration official said, Mr. Obama’s budget would show a deficit of just over 3 percent of the gross domestic product, down from three times that level, and at roughly the point that economists consider stable; it would hover around that point through 2021. But beyond 2021, an aging population and rising health care costs are forecast to drive annual deficits higher again.

    With Republicans in charge of the House, Mr. Obama’s budget is more a statement of his priorities and philosophy than an actual template for federal spending and tax policy. Long-term budget projections — and especially deficit forecasts — are frequently unreliable because they are subject to so many political and economic variables. The point of Mr. Obama’s forecast is less to promise a specific result than to signal to voters and financial markets that he is serious about reducing annual deficits.

    Mr. Obama’s budget will also serve as his frame for the debate with Republicans over the highly political act of writing next year’s budget — even as he tests Republicans’ willingness to compromise on the more divisive solutions to the nation’s long-range imbalances. “This is the opening bid in a long process,” said Senator Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois and the second-ranking Senate leader.

    Previewing his budget message, Mr. Obama has argued for weeks that cuts deeper than he is seeking could threaten the fragile economic recovery and that America’s future growth and competitiveness demand increases in programs for education, infrastructure, innovation and research.

    Ignoring bigger problems

    Mr. Obama would reduce military spending and some health program costs, but neither party is tackling the unsustainable long-term growth of entitlement programs like Medicare or proposing to raise revenues significantly to close the budget gap.

    “This is a budget that’s at that pivot point where we’re saying we now have to move from making sure the recovery takes hold, while being careful not to undermine it, to start to move in the direction of putting policies in place that deal with the deficit,” said the administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to preview budget details, “because if we don’t deal with the deficit, it becomes the potential next substantial economic challenge.”

    The $1.1 trillion in total deficit reduction that the administration will claim through the 2021 fiscal year is measured from spending levels enacted by Congress and the president for the 2010 fiscal year. Comparisons of the impact of Mr. Obama’s new budget and House Republicans’ proposals on deficits and the size of government are difficult to make until both budgets are available.

    House Republicans will begin work on a 2012 budget after they finish trying to shrink current spending. But their proposed $100 billion cut for this fiscal year, already four months old, would translate over a decade into more than $1 trillion in deficit reductions, budget analysts say.

    Yet even if House Republicans can resolve internal fights over the cuts and pass them, such reductions will not survive opposition from Mr. Obama and the Democratic-controlled Senate. The Republicans’ zeal for spending cuts, however, suggests that Mr. Obama ultimately could be forced to accept bigger reductions in overall nonsecurity spending than he now supports.

    Freeze would only cover tenth of spending

    The president has proposed a five-year freeze of such spending, through 2015, which the administration estimates would save $400 billion in the next 10 years.

    Decades of budget history would suggest, however, that neither party can sustain the levels of cuts they are proposing for nonsecurity discretionary spending, which while just over a tenth of the federal budget covers most government programs, like air traffic control, national parks and cancer research.

    Typically, such spending has grown faster than inflation, but not nearly as fast as that for much bigger items whose costs are driving projections of a dangerously mounting debt — the military, the entitlement programs Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, and interest on that debt.

    While the Pentagon would not be subject to his freeze, Mr. Obama proposes reducing its previous spending plans by $78 billion over five years and cutting several weapons programs, including a Joint Strike Fighter engine and Marine expeditionary vehicle.

    Together with “a pretty big reduction” in war costs from troop withdrawals in Iraq, the overall military budget would be smaller in real terms than it currently is, the administration official said. “We’re going from an environment where, if something was for defense, it was outside of normal budgetary discipline,” the official said, “and we’re saying that can’t be anymore.”

    Mr. Obama’s budget assumes new revenues, mostly from tax changes he has already proposed that would affect multinational corporations and upper-income individuals, and savings from reduced interest payments on what he calculates as a lower federal debt.

    Battle over alternative minimum tax

    The president will also challenge Congress to offset the high costs of two actions repeatedly approved by lawmakers and presidents — one prevents the alternative minimum tax from annually hitting many middle-class households rather than only the affluent taxpayers it was intended for, and the other blocks a law that would slash payments to doctors who treat Medicare patients. In past years, the costs of those remedies have often simply been added to deficits.

    To pay for adjusting the alternative minimum tax for three years, through 2014, Mr. Obama again will propose a limit on the tax deductions that people in the top brackets can claim. Congress has rejected that idea, which would raise roughly $300 billion over 10 years.
    To offset the cost of protecting physicians’ reimbursements for two years, he will propose $62 billion in savings through changes that squeeze Medicare and Medicaid payments to hospitals and doctors and expand the use of generic drugs in federal health programs.

    The budget confirms that Mr. Obama is not taking the lead in embracing the kind of far-reaching deficit-reduction plan recommended in December by a bipartisan majority of his fiscal commission. It proposed saving $4 trillion over a decade through specific cuts in spending for domestic, military and entitlement programs and new revenues from overhauling the tax code.

    Instead, he has called on Republicans to negotiate with him to reach that goal.

    While that disappoints deficit hawks in both parties, many say they are sympathetic or even supportive of his caution because neither party seems ready to compromise.

    Senator Kent Conrad of North Dakota, chairman of the Senate Budget Committee and a Democratic member of the fiscal commission, said: “In this highly partisan environment, if the president proposes something, there is automatically some group that is opposed. It may be better for him to play the role of referee.”

    Mr. Conrad added: “To get a result, the president has got to be part of a larger process that involves Republicans and Democrats, the House and Senate. How one gets to the table is not just one move, it’s a series of moves. And it’s very, very difficult.”
    Source

    About time. It doesn't address the worst problems, of course, but then neither does the Republican's plan apparently. Could use a higher gas tax too. But it's a start. I figure the final result will be somewhere between Obama and the Republican's plan, and hopefully that'll result in a more balanced budget rather than both sides agreeing not to cut the other's pet projects and resulting in a shallower budget cut.

  2. #2
    As always, I'm pissed that they're focusing on non-defense discretionary funding (a problem Obama and the Republicans share). Let's be honest, while there's some fat to cut in their programs, any real savings here are going to be peanuts, even in a medium-term time frame let alone a long term one. The realities are that we need to focus on five major reforms, which are largely ignored by both proposals:

    1) Medicare reform. Hands down, the most important thing that needs to be done and which was at best grazed by the ACA and current budget proposals. This should be national priority #1.

    2) Tax reform. I don't think they should try to raise too much extra revenue from taxes, but there are a lot of changes and simplifications that need to be done, especially with perverse incentive structures that distort spending by both individuals and corporations.

    3) Social Security. Not such a huge problem in terms of difficulty to solve, but it's a big chunk of the budget that should be adequately provisioned for the foreseeable future.

    4) Defense spending. This is not a sacred cow, however much I champion the importance of American projection power. At the very least, imposing some fiscal discipline on Congress when it comes to soldier pay and Tricare premiums would be nice; reforming the procurement system and cutting unneeded and overbudget weapons programs would be another good idea. This could contain defense spending growth to inflation or below, if done correctly, and would produce real reductions in the budget once ongoing wars wind down.

    5) New fiscal rules for discretionary spending. Things like PAYGO are all right, but Congress should adopt some real rules about spending and have painful automatic stabilizers kick in if they circumvent them with 'emergency appropriations' bills and that kind of bullshit. Caps on budget growth, eliminating exceptions and loopholes to budgetary rules (and earmarks, while we're at it), and a number of other constructive solutions would make it a lot harder to have runaway spending.

  3. #3
    Agreed with Wiggin. This is a really shallow attempt at fixing these issues, and I haven't heard much better is coming from Republicans yet. Though arguably they are waiting for 2012 to have a real budget fight.

    And also disagreed with these budget gambits that make absurd calculations to project cuts for the next decade. Obviously budgets should make long-term allocations, but treating every tax cut as a loss in revenue (and treating every tax increase as a revenue increase) remains a bad way to think about the big picture.

  4. #4
    Here is a very interesting interactive chart of the budget...

    Obama’s 2012 Budget Proposal: How $3.7 Trillion is Spent
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  5. #5
    That's an interesting graphic, really fun to dive into. Even though many of these programs/departments should be eliminated, I'm most interested in the things that are getting the most dramatic spending increases.

    FEMA, for example, is getting a proposed 44% cut. So is the Coast Guard. Health and Human Services is getting plenty of money sprinkled around, as are the controversial marketing programs in the Dept of Agriculture.

    Medicare, Social Security and debt interest are major drivers of spending and spending growth. We really can't afford any of that stuff.

  6. #6
    NYTimes had a similar graphic for last year's budget (though once the budget gets passed I always prefer the visual representation of Death and Taxes). The graphic really drives home that non-defense discretionary spending simply isn't the problem (and defense is only marginally a problem - spending in Obama's budget is tightly controlled, and both procurement and R&D take a big hit).

    Dread - what do you mean about the 'controversial' marketing programs in the DoA? I thought the 'Food and Nutrition Service' was for food stamps and school lunch programs and the like.

    Otherwise, some things I found interesting about the proposal:
    -The White House is clearly assuming that unemployment claims are going to drop a lot; the Employment and Training Administration registers a 51% drop. This might be optimistic.
    -The Postal Service is getting quite a boost. I know the USPS is in deep shit funding-wise, but it's a problem that needs to be addressed at some point. Granted, running a national postal service for $5 billion a year is a bargain, but snail mail volumes are going to keep dropping, and package service faces stiff competition. They'll need to re-evaluate the USPS' role, and consider cutting service (fewer post offices, cutting Saturday delivery, etc.)
    -The NSF and NIH both had modest increases (good), but the NIH's paylines are going to be under serious pressure with only a 3% increase. I don't know if I should get greedy, though, given the budget environment.
    -Anyone know why FMS' budget was nearly doubled?
    -Transportation got a lot of money; I'm assuming some of this is still spillover from stimulus projects, but it's also a bit of a pet project for the White House. I'm all for upgrading America's infrastructure, but it should probably be done in the context of an increased gas tax to pay for it all. And yet the Corps of Engineers had a big cut; I'm not sure what to make of that.
    -'Overseas Contingency Operations' has dropped to $126 billion from $160 billion, which is a nice savings. I'm skeptical it will drop much more next year, though, absent significant improvement in Afghanistan.

  7. #7
    I may have misinterpreted the function of the Agricultural Marketing Service. I thought it was an umbrella that funneled money to organizations like Dairy Management, which stoked some controversy a few months ago: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/us/07fat.html

    But now I'm not so sure...

  8. #8
    I'm not sure; most of the USDA's budget is pretty murky to me. But either way it's a pretty small budget ($1.31 billion; a 2.4% increase) so I'm not too exercised about it. It's also a mandatory program so Obama can't do anything about it. In fact, if you look at the USDA's discrtionary budget you have to look at the really small budget items before anything had a budget increase from last year; everything else has been requested to decrease.

  9. #9
    Arguably we should start chipping away at these "mandatory" programs.

  10. #10
    Post office should not be operating at a loss. Let them raise the price of postage, cut workers, cut locations and/or hours. Honestly I think Saturday for almost all government offices *SHOULD* be open on at least one day of the weekend and closed on a weekday. I mean seriously people work during the week...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Arguably we should start chipping away at these "mandatory" programs.
    Yeah, but the White House budget can't reflect that; it needs to be dealt with by separate legislation. All they provide is estimates of what they think the outlays will be based on demographic/economic information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Post office should not be operating at a loss. Let them raise the price of postage, cut workers, cut locations and/or hours. Honestly I think Saturday for almost all government offices *SHOULD* be open on at least one day of the weekend and closed on a weekday. I mean seriously people work during the week...
    The post office is constrained by the legal requirements placed on it. Providing uniform postal service in the entire US is an expensive proposition (and the primary reason they are granted a monopoly on delivering letters), and declining marginal revenues from lower mail volumes makes it even more pricey. Raising prices can only go so far before it starts to eat into mail volume. Absent changing their mandate, they'll have to cut services somehow - but most of those changes require government approval.

    As for Saturday, the big cost isn't having a few hours of post offices being open, but rather having Saturday delivery. Cut that and you start to save quite a bit. It would probably be a good idea to overhaul their pension scheme as well.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Post office should not be operating at a loss.
    Face of freedom right here, vote Sarah 2012

    In a way it is archaic

    I get that

    I am not convinced you do, but we have a poor history

    But how can you on one hand call for the execution of people touching tooth-paste and saying postal service does not help those who cannot afford it the most

    Esp given that despite your atrocious spelling, writing and comprehension record you claim to speak for people who make money out of writing things

    I cannot fathom how you manage to portray yourself, to yourself, as a moral being

    Let's kick the poor people out of the post office, they didn't need it anyway, they were poor to begin with

    Libraries are a blight on the nation, aren't they

    But let's spend 200 million on the salaries of people sodomizing people in Iraq, so long as they're not sodomizing under God? What?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  13. #13
    I honestly don't see how the post office uniquely benefits the poor.

  14. #14
    I wouldn't say it uniquely benefits the poor, but it does uniquely benefit those in remote locations; the USPS has to provide them letter service at the same price they provide it to someone in the middle of NYC, despite the significant differential in fixed costs.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    I wouldn't say it uniquely benefits the poor, but it does uniquely benefit those in remote locations; the USPS has to provide them letter service at the same price they provide it to someone in the middle of NYC, despite the significant differential in fixed costs.
    SShhh
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  16. #16
    We have plenty of wealthy exurbs that are just as remote.

    Plus I imagine the post office is losing plenty of money in big cities. Higher rents for post offices and more money for salaries (but not being allowed to charge more).

  17. #17
    I think you're wrong about big cities. A single post office can cover a lot more people in a big city, and while their fixed costs rise somewhat, their mail volume is probably much higher, which results in much better margins. I'm sure the USPS has looked at this, but I'm afraid I'm too lazy and uninterested in this little tidbit to find out which of us is right.

  18. #18
    The variable costs probably rise a lot. Postal workers are represented by three main unions that separate urban letter carriers from rural letter carriers. Trying to find the contract, but it would not be at all surprising if there was a firm cap on the amount of mail or region a single letter carrier can carry that would impact the carrier/citizen ratio.

    I don't know for sure, but either way it doesn't make the postal service a piece of social welfare.

  19. #19
    How much would we save by withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan? Hundreds of Billions of dollars?

  20. #20
    Also, where are the comfortable seniors, who don't really need to draw on SS or Medicare? Would they rather force younger generations suffer in the prime of their lives, so they can book a retirement cruise, or pay their annual country club dues? Really?

    My mom used to have this attitude. She kept saying things like, "I am entitled to these benefits." When I explained that her contributions were used up in the first two years of her retirement, her eyes glazed over. She didn't like, and could not comprehend the thought that she was "Eating her young". That it would take all three of her children to pay for her "entitlements".

    She died at the age of 71, so things didn't have to be forced ahead another ten or 20 years. But her grandchildren started voicing complaints in their early teens......paying for those old people, not working toward their own retirement or "security" because it'll all be bankrupt by the time they can retire.

    In fact, kids in their early teens are talking about never being able to retire, how many careers they will need over several decades, or working until they drop dead.

  21. #21
    Here is my proposal, coupled with a question:

    Many retirees in a certain bracket do NOT need to draw on SS, and don't need to use Medicare.

    For example, my friend who sold her home (with an indoor swimming pool and outdoor tennis court) bought a retirement home in Maui. She does not need to draw on SS, or use Medicare. She and her spouse may have contributed toward those things, but they do not need to use them.

    Would a means-test work, would that be fair? If we institute a means-test, would it no longer be a national retirement plan for all...but a welfare program for some? Does the term "welfare" change attitudes, even if the principle might work?

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    How much would we save by withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan? Hundreds of Billions of dollars?
    $126 billion in 2012, though it would cost tens of billions to wind down operations, and a little bit of that $126 billion is probably not actually spent on either Iraq or Afghanistan. It's a lot of money, yes, but definitely not the main deficit problem.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Here is my proposal, coupled with a question:

    Many retirees in a certain bracket do NOT need to draw on SS, and don't need to use Medicare.

    For example, my friend who sold her home (with an indoor swimming pool and outdoor tennis court) bought a retirement home in Maui. She does not need to draw on SS, or use Medicare. She and her spouse may have contributed toward those things, but they do not need to use them.

    Would a means-test work, would that be fair? If we institute a means-test, would it no longer be a national retirement plan for all...but a welfare program for some? Does the term "welfare" change attitudes, even if the principle might work?
    A couple of things on this.

    #1. Its funny but a lot of liberals are opposed to means testing SS. The reason for this is that if the attitude does change on SS it may make it easier to cut in the future if its viewed as "welfare" or government assistance.

    #2. How much of a means testing are you thinking about? Are you referring to total assets? People with other income streams? Anything that doesn't include the middle class is going to end up not having a huge impact.

    #3. I'm opposed to this because of course it punishes success. If you have more of something subsidize it. If you want less of something tax it. Subsidizing failure and punishing success is foolish.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    A couple of things on this.

    #1. Its funny but a lot of liberals are opposed to means testing SS. The reason for this is that if the attitude does change on SS it may make it easier to cut in the future if its viewed as "welfare" or government assistance.

    #2. How much of a means testing are you thinking about? Are you referring to total assets? People with other income streams? Anything that doesn't include the middle class is going to end up not having a huge impact.

    #3. I'm opposed to this because of course it punishes success. If you have more of something subsidize it. If you want less of something tax it. Subsidizing failure and punishing success is foolish.
    It's not liberals who are opposed to "welfare", but far right conservatives. I think that's how SS was passable in congress....that it was a "contribution" toward retirement for everyone, and not a "welfare tax" for certain people.

    I have no idea what a means-test would look like. I only know that millions of retired seniors have plenty of money and good health insurance, and don't need to draw on SS or use Medicare.

    Yammer all you want about "punishing success" for old geezers. We should all be concerned about whether they are eating their young. Or how younger generation can possibly be expected to fulfill these entitlements, while resenting that their work isn't going toward their own retirement.

  25. #25
    It's not liberals who are opposed to "welfare", but far right conservatives.
    Sure but many liberals think SS will be easier to kill if its means tested. Don't take my word for it, read some of the DU message board. They are the crazy left and almost universally they think means testing is a plot to eventually kill SS.

    In any event I don't really care too much what they think but I bring it up since means testing is pretty much dead in the water. The right certainly hates the idea, the far left hates the idea and even if passed it wouldn't amount to much.

  26. #26
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    I think it was in the Guardian that I saw the US approach to the budget being likened to the approach of a morbidly obese person who tries to lose weight by cutting out fruits and vegetables from his diet, but not fast food, icecream and sodas.
    Congratulations America

  27. #27
    Seems like a valid comparison.

    We also haven't had sovereign debt crises in our neighborhood yet. Fortunately we have individual states for that, so there will probably be a reckoning soon at the state level before we hit the federal level.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    I think it was in the Guardian that I saw the US approach to the budget being likened to the approach of a morbidly obese person who tries to lose weight by cutting out fruits and vegetables from his diet, but not fast food, icecream and sodas.
    I don't like the analogy because the cuts *are* good, they just aren't enough. It would make more sense if you say an obese person who eats 10 big macs, 10 pieces of fried chicken, a gallon of soda and a bag of snickers a day chose to eat one less big mac. Its not going to change much but not a bad idea anyway.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    It would make more sense
    No it wouldn't, it would be injecting it with a different opinion.
    . . .

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    No it wouldn't, it would be injecting it with a different opinion.
    So you think the cuts in the budget in light of record deficits are bad?

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