Teachers are more important to our nation's future than some MIT math quants promising bonii to Wall Street traders or hedge funds.Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
Of course our banking industry is integral to commerce and capitalism! But when a larger portion of our GDP or lobbyist/politician power (wealth) is tilted toward financial schemes that go BOOM, instead of Education.....well, you tell me how that makes any sense.
Considering how miserably they're failing most students, I'm not convinced they make all that much of a difference.
Hope is the denial of reality
The entire purpose of this bill, as far as I can see, was union-busting. In fact, last night they pulled all the fiscal parts of the bill, because they couldn't get a legal quorum, and voted to break the unions backs! Maybe I look at all these shenanigans a bit differently than some because I live in a "right to work" state. Basically, we have no unions here. Yes, if you are a railroad laborer, you can belong to the BMW but they have no say in bargaining with the state. Same with the NEA! And guess what, wages in Wyoming for the professions that are getting fucked in Wisconsin, are lower than states that allow collective bargaining!
I also have to agree with GGT! Why the fuck aren't cops and firemens unions being voted out of existence? Oh yeah, maybe because that would look really bad! Of course, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that teachers are teaching the next generation of politicians! To say nothing of the next generation of leaders! But we should make sure teachers, and other state workers, don't have any union to protect them, their retirements, and their salaries!
I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
Atari bullshit refugee!!
They just were voted out of existence in Ohio.
Where does Geegee think the money to pay for the teachers is coming from? How about corporation tax on the banks, income tax on the bankers etc, etc, etc???
I don't know about GGT but I believe most of it comes from working stiffs not corporations.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Whoa there, bucko. I may be late in replying but only because I didn't see your post until the forum slowed to a dribble.
In the US, teacher pay and benefits come mostly from local property taxes. Sure, states get federal funds for education, but the "trickle down" doesn't work out the way you may think. Poorly performing districts can get more money based on need, or they can find themselves fighting for every dollar because they don't perform well.
Corporate taxes on banks and business can be easily avoided with a clever accountant or tax attorney finding deductions or loopholes. Translation: US business gets breaks from paying taxes that benefit the community, while the residents and property owners find escalating taxes to pay for the community's needs.
Did I explain that in simple terms for anyone outside the US to understand? Did that explain why certain districts have better teachers, or why certain districts struggle to find good teachers?
You're contradicting yourself. You're implying that school funding comes mostly from local property taxes, but then asserting that corporations (whose tax revenue doesn't go directly to schools) are somehow to blame.
Pfft, a partisan Secretary of State delays a law dealing with unions as long as possible so they can lock-in some last-minute gains.MARCH 14, 2011, 3:58 P.M. ET
Wisconsin Union Law to Take Effect on March 26
Associated Press
MADISON, Wis.—Wisconsin's secretary of state said a bill taking away public workers' collective-bargaining rights will take effect on March 26, the latest day possible.
Secretary of State Doug La Follette said Monday that he decided to publish the law, the final step needed for it to take effect, on March 25 so that schools and local governments have time to pass contract extensions between now and then.
Gov. Scott Walker signed the bill on Friday and had asked Mr. La Follette to publish the law Monday, but Mr. La Follette said he saw no emergency that would make it necessary for him to do so.
Mr. La Follette said he heard from many schools, cities and counties urging him to delay enactment of the law as long as possible.
The new law would not affect collective bargaining agreements that are already in place, which is fueling the decision by unions to reach deals as quickly as possible.
The law ends collective bargaining for public workers over everything except salary increases no greater than inflation. It also forces state workers to make benefit concessions that amount to an 8% pay cut on average.
Mr. Walker is proposing a nearly $1 billion cut in aid to schools in his two-year budget plan that would take effect in July. He argued that because of that, districts needed to get more money from their employees to help mitigate the loss in aid.
Mr. Walker also wants to limit the ability of schools and local governments to pay for the cuts through local property-tax increases.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...602253620.html
Corporations can be lured to a municipality (or state) with promises of tax holidays or huge tax breaks. Sure, it's great to get new jobs in a local economy, but not if business defers paying their fair share of use or impact. Then it's the property tax payers who are left holding the bag for upgrading roads, widening highways, adding sewer lines, sidewalks, and schools.
PA is getting ready to gut its education budget all the way from K-12 through college. State universities alone will lose 10% of state funding, meaning at least $5,000 more for tuition and firing professors, which will be devastating to "college towns" whose economy is based around education. Any slack will be passed onto homeowners by jacking property tax. At a time when swathes of homes are underwater and foreclosures are still common.
If this "austerity" is supposed to affect everyone [shared sacrifice] that should include large corporations whose profits are way up, and they're hoarding trillions in cash. There's no reason oil companies should still be getting subsidies or give-away tax breaks. Was it Chevron or Exxon that paid zero in federal taxes for 2010, despite historically high profits?
Wow. Union thugs from the police and firefighter unions threaten a Wisconsin business. Of course there is no explicit threat, but it's hard not to take this letter from your local firefighters and police as saying, "Nice business you got there. Shame if something happened to it."
Given a letter like this, one has to wonder what the police and firefighters would happen to d if an angry mob appeared and burned the business down
http://www.thewheelerreport.com/rele...0/0310wppa.pdf
The company still refuses to take a position.
More: http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/118042634.htmlMILWAUKEE, March 11, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- M&I Bank (M&I) today issued the following statement in response to a letter it received from a union group threatening to boycott M&I if M&I does not publicly oppose Governor Walker's budget repair bill.
M&I has not taken, and will not take, a position either for or against the budget repair bill. As M&I has publicly stated before:
M&I has not contributed to any candidate and did not contribute to Governor Walker or Mayor Barrett in the last gubernatorial election.
M&I has over 6,000 employees in Wisconsin, and, in the great tradition of political freedom in this country, those employees have the right to contribute to the candidate of their choice.
M&I employees contributed to both Wisconsin gubernatorial candidates in the last election.
M&I is proud of our tradition of standing with teachers, nurses, police officers, fire fighters, and other dedicated public employees to support, improve, and grow Wisconsin communities. M&I has 188 branches in cities, towns, and villages throughout Wisconsin, and M&I employees work side-by-side with these dedicated public employees in civic endeavors across the state.
M&I Bank is an affiliate of Marshall & Ilsley Corporation (NYSE: MI), a diversified financial services corporation headquartered in Milwaukee, Wis., with $51.9 billion in assets. Founded in 1847, M&I Marshall & Ilsley Bank is the largest Wisconsin-based bank, with 188 offices throughout the state. In addition, M&I has 53 locations throughout Arizona; 36 offices along Florida's west coast and in central Florida; 33 offices in Indianapolis and nearby communities; 26 offices in metropolitan Minneapolis/St. Paul, and one in Duluth, Minn.; 17 offices in the greater St. Louis area; 15 offices in Kansas City and nearby communities; and one office in Las Vegas, Nev. M&I also provides trust and investment management, equipment leasing, mortgage banking, asset-based lending, financial planning, investments, and insurance services from offices throughout the country and on the Internet (www.mibank.com or www.micorp.com).
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...117831648.html
Remind me why Walker didn't go after the firemen and policemen when they're this obnoxious?
Hope is the denial of reality
Don't they (firemen and policemen) rake in 80% of the revenue going to state union workers?
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Yeah, with a boycott.
. . .
You wouldn't find it at all uncomfortable if your local police officer handed you a letter saying that he expects you to support him getting a raise or he'll boycott your place of business?
EDIT: This is really a great synthesis of why public sector unions should be illegal. These are policemen and firefighters going out into their communities (IE the people who pay them to protect the population) and saying, "we want to get paid ____, either your with us or against us".
I assume NY state troopers/sheriffs don't hand out windshield stickers when you donate?
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Are you saying abolish the First Amendment rights for public employees of for all employees?
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
No, simply remove their right to form a special interest group within the government that's also paid-for by the government.
I don't see anything in the First Amendment about who pays you.
Should we take away the Constitutional rights of legislators since they are a special interest group within the government that's also paid-for by the government?
Who exactly, in your opinion, deserves to be protected under the Constitution? Corporations and...?
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Yeah, legislators should unionize against...legislators.
You addressed one out of three...Yeah, legislators should unionize against...legislators.
In most cases they set their own salaries and benefits. They don't need a union (which is nothing more than a legally recognized coalition to act in arbitration). But keep railing against unions, it gets funnier as you go.
Last edited by Being; 03-18-2011 at 04:02 AM.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
You haven't made a point worth addressing. Public sector bargaining isn't a constitutional right. Not even the unions pretend it is, they try to suggest their outfits are a moral/human right.
The word Government is capitalized in the First Amendment. I assume that is meant to mean any authority above you.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Not particularly. If what he means is that he's going to boycott my business in the traditional sense, then I have to weigh whether or not its worth keeping the customers. If he means not show up if I'm being robbed, then I can simply report him for not doing his job, and thus put him on a track to being fired.
. . .
No. Their policy votes should not be bought by donors. Whether from unions or corporations. They also shouldn't be able to vote their own pay raises and benefits packages, which most can still do currently. PA had a big hubabub the last time (state) congress imposed freezing public works projects, and wage freezes on all public workers, but voted for their own pay raises and beefed up their healthcare and retirement packages. They continued to get their +$100,000 salaries and benefits from the tax payers, while they fought the prolonged process in congress, making it longer and costlier than it should have been.Yeah, legislators should unionize against...legislators.
But by all means, let's cut public teachers' $35-50,000 salaries in order to make congress more accountable for the public budget.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
As you have not been on the receiving end of 'union thuggery', I would suggest you try it out, then see how much you giggle about it.
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
We should already have laws to keep unions for behaving poorly, since unions are made up of people, and people are subject to criminal laws. This would mean that a union member can't beat someone, or physically bar someone else from doing their job without going to jail. However if you consider refusing to work, not working as efficiently as they could, or boycotting businesses that engage in practices they disagree with as "thuggery", then I'm unsure of what to say to you.
. . .
I suppose, given my current view of corporate capital, I should never set foot on U.S. soil, lest my head and heart explode simultaneously.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
