The Youth Unemployment Bomb

[Nessus]

fixed.

wow this is fun

I am not familiar with liberal legislation creating a helot underclass, can you point me to some examples?

I'm going to hate saying this but. . . "affirmative action"

Good point! That ship should probably have sailed some time ago. Although there is still institutional hereditary poverty among some blacks and other minorities. It's hard to see AA solely as a vehicle for generating a perpetually poor white under-class, but that's a side effect I suppose. AA in general is a bit crap because, as per US politics, it's reactive instead of active and doesn't even try to address the underlying cultural issues.

[GGT]

Good point! That ship should probably have sailed some time ago. Although there is still institutional hereditary poverty among some blacks and other minorities. It's hard to see AA solely as a vehicle for generating a perpetually poor white under-class, but that's a side effect I suppose. AA in general is a bit crap because, as per US politics, it's reactive instead of active and doesn't even try to address the underlying cultural issues.

I might regret mentioning this "hot potato"......but the underlying cultural issues could be traced back to elder, white, male (often Christian) landowners who held a disproportionate percentage of national wealth and power, for far too long. Affirmative Action would have been unnecessary if those same men hadn't been so greedy and exclusionary, when interpreting what All Men Are Created Equal meant.....

It's perplexing to wonder how early Americans (who were so fed up with Kings and Queens, nobility and landownership titled by birth, the Catholic church or the Church of England) could have started things out on such a good course, but modern America seemed to get it so wrong, for so long.

[Lewkowski]

I might regret mentioning this "hot potato"......but the underlying cultural issues could be traced back to elder, white, male (often Christian) landowners who held a disproportionate percentage of national wealth and power, for far too long. Affirmative Action would have been unnecessary if those same men hadn't been so greedy and exclusionary, when interpreting what All Men Are Created Equal meant.....

It's perplexing to wonder how early Americans (who were so fed up with Kings and Queens, nobility and landownership titled by birth, the Catholic church or the Church of England) could have started things out on such a good course, but modern America seemed to get it so wrong, for so long.

Why is that some minorities cultures have such horrible outcomes compared to other minority cultures? Affirmative action is a poison. Because of affirmative action people will always wonder about if (insert minority individual) made it on their own merits or because of affirmative action. That is a cruel attack on those who actually have pulled themselves up by their own merits and are forced to endure life long doubt from others on their hard earned abilities and accomplishments.

[GGT]

Why is that some minorities cultures have such horrible outcomes compared to other minority cultures? Affirmative action is a poison. Because of affirmative action people will always wonder about if (insert minority individual) made it on their own merits or because of affirmative action. That is a cruel attack on those who actually have pulled themselves up by their own merits and are forced to endure life long doubt from others on their hard earned abilities and accomplishments.

Are you claiming that AA is to blame for causing bad outcomes in certain minority groups? Seriously? How does that factor into AA for women? We just managed to pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps---err, I mean "merits"---to gain entry into higher education and the work force?

Wow, women must be even better than men, than history gives us credit! Women didn't need to have the suffrage movement after all, we could have just willed it so. Voila.

[Lewkowski]

AA can be a contributing factor but it isn't the main reason. It is a symptom of the cult of the victimization which IS the problem.

I'll ask again. Why do you think certain minority cultures seem to do well in society but others have terrible outcomes?

[agamemnus]

AA can be a contributing factor but it isn't the main reason. It is a symptom of the cult of the victimization which IS the problem.

I'll ask again. Why do you think certain minority cultures seem to do well in society but others have terrible outcomes?

Well, that's a question for a 50-page thesis, but I agree that AA and the mindless bureaucratic thinking that goes with it (in terms of other aspects of government) doesn't help.

[GGT]

AA can be a contributing factor but it isn't the main reason. It is a symptom of the cult of the victimization which IS the problem.

I'll ask again. Why do you think certain minority cultures seem to do well in society but others have terrible outcomes?

One theory is that old white Christian men (the predominant demographic in legislators) exhibited a distinct bias against skin color and gender that wasn't their own. It's pretty hard to work one's way up the socio-economic ladder, when the most powerful group is intent on greasing the rungs.

[Lewkowski]

One theory is that old white Christian men (the predominant demographic in legislators) exhibited a distinct bias against skin color and gender that wasn't their own. It's pretty hard to work one's way up the socio-economic ladder, when the most powerful group is intent on greasing the rungs.

I'll ask again. Why do you think certain minority cultures seem to do well in society but others have terrible outcomes? Again drop the white male crap. Explain the differences in outcomes of Asians, Blacks and Hispanics.

[Being]

I'll ask again. Why do you think certain minority cultures seem to do well in society but others have terrible outcomes? Again drop the white male crap. Explain the differences in outcomes of Asians, Blacks and Hispanics.

Asians and Hispanics weren't imported as property.

You are really one backward facing individual. In fact, you are almost as bad as Dread.

[Dreadnaught]

Huh? You don't even know my views on this.

[GGT]

I'll ask again. Why do you think certain minority cultures seem to do well in society but others have terrible outcomes? Again drop the white male crap. Explain the differences in outcomes of Asians, Blacks and Hispanics.

Well, that's a question for a 50-page thesis....

I can't 'drop the white male crap' when our history was dominated by white men in power, or men in general.

If a minority group is struggling in our current culture, things like soft racism, low income or poverty, access to and value of a good education, role of adult male role models, they all play a part.

Lately, Asian-Americans are grouped into the successful group of math wizzes and go-getters, based on what Japan, China, are Taiwan are doing. Latino-Americans are grouped with non-English speaking illegal immigrants, or based on what Mexico, Guatemala or Cuba are doing. African-Americans are grouped into mostly negative stereo-types, based on our long history of racism, plus what African countries look like.

There have been studies using facial drawings, where young children pick out the "smart, nice, successful" or "dumb, lazy, mean" face. Darker skin color meant the latter. Other social studies show Asian eye shape and lighter skin meant the former.

How do YOU explain different outcomes based on race or ethnicity?

[Loki]

Lately, Asian-Americans are grouped into the successful group of math wizzes and go-getters, based on what Japan, China, are Taiwan are doing. Latino-Americans are grouped with non-English speaking illegal immigrants, or based on what Mexico, Guatemala or Cuba are doing. African-Americans are grouped into mostly negative stereo-types, based on our long history of racism, plus what African countries look like.

None of that is true. The stereotypes are based on how those people are doing in this country, not how their ethnic kin are doing in the home countries. Most Americans don't even know what's happening in Japan/China/Taiwan or Africa. Asian-Americans were viewed as being smart long before there was strong economic growth in China (I should note that even today, China is poorer than Mexico; India is still one of the poorest countries outside of sub-Saharan Africa, roughly the same as Pakistan). Also, African immigrants to the US tend to have incomes similar to whites here, largely a function of those immigrants being from the middle class and well-educated.

[Veldan Rath]

GGT, there is no one Holy answer.

It's a mixture of factors. One of which is the culture the youth are raised in.

[Lewkowski]

I can't 'drop the white male crap' when our history was dominated by white men in power, or men in general.

If a minority group is struggling in our current culture, things like soft racism, low income or poverty, access to and value of a good education, role of adult male role models, they all play a part.

Lately, Asian-Americans are grouped into the successful group of math wizzes and go-getters, based on what Japan, China, are Taiwan are doing. Latino-Americans are grouped with non-English speaking illegal immigrants, or based on what Mexico, Guatemala or Cuba are doing. African-Americans are grouped into mostly negative stereo-types, based on our long history of racism, plus what African countries look like.

There have been studies using facial drawings, where young children pick out the "smart, nice, successful" or "dumb, lazy, mean" face. Darker skin color meant the latter. Other social studies show Asian eye shape and lighter skin meant the former.

How do YOU explain different outcomes based on race or ethnicity?

Different cultures produce different outcomes. A culture that is constantly refers to the past and how they have been kept down is a culture that will produce failures. A culture that has a strong work ethic is a culture that will produce successes. A culture that views "snitches" as traitors and bad people is a culture that will produce failures. A culture that doesn't believe in coddling their children and sets high standards for them is a culture that produces success. A culture that glorifies crime is a culture that sets its children up for failure.

That is the reason for the negative outcomes of some groups and the positive outcomes for others. Of course cultures aren't uniform. But there are obvious trends.

[Illusions]

I'll ask again. Why do you think certain minority cultures seem to do well in society but others have terrible outcomes?

Well its probably because those Irish are violent, ignorant, drunks...

Again drop the white male crap.

Oh...hmm...well those damn Chinese are a constant and terrible menace to society, what with their drug use, participation in illegal activities like prostitution, amongst their other cultural inferiorities. No wonder they're stuck in the slums.

[Being]

Huh? You don't even know my views on this.

Sorry, I really didn't mean to imply that you are backward facing on this particular topic. I see how it can be taken that way and I appologize.

[GGT]

None of that is true. The stereotypes are based on how those people are doing in this country, not how their ethnic kin are doing in the home countries. Most Americans don't even know what's happening in Japan/China/Taiwan or Africa. Asian-Americans were viewed as being smart long before there was strong economic growth in China (I should note that even today, China is poorer than Mexico; India is still one of the poorest countries outside of sub-Saharan Africa, roughly the same as Pakistan). Also, African immigrants to the US tend to have incomes similar to whites here, largely a function of those immigrants being from the middle class and well-educated.

I gave an example. But it depends on one's age, generation, past experience, and family influences. Some elder WWII veterans still use derogatory terms for Japanese, Italians, even Germans. Remember American-Japanese interment camps? When Japan made breakthroughs in technology and autos that threatened US workers, plenty of resentment took hold and carried some bias.

Today, Asian descendants are often expected to be the brightest students in math and science, even though they might be 5th generation Americans. And let's not ignore what today's Muslim communities are facing in negative stereotypes that have nothing to do with reality.

Many older Greeks still harbor hatred for Turks, decades later. Just a few decades ago, many Greeks changed or shortened their last names to avoid discrimination when applying for business permits in the US.

GGT, there is no one Holy answer.

It's a mixture of factors. One of which is the culture the youth are raised in.

Of course. I wasn't implying there was one answer.....but I'm not going to write a 50 page thesis.

Different cultures produce different outcomes. A culture that is constantly refers to the past and how they have been kept down is a culture that will produce failures. A culture that has a strong work ethic is a culture that will produce successes. A culture that views "snitches" as traitors and bad people is a culture that will produce failures. A culture that doesn't believe in coddling their children and sets high standards for them is a culture that produces success. A culture that glorifies crime is a culture that sets its children up for failure.

That is the reason for the negative outcomes of some groups and the positive outcomes for others. Of course cultures aren't uniform. But there are obvious trends.

Where's the Why in any of that? Sounds like a short synopsis of The Godfather.

[Dreadnaught]

Been thinking about this ever-more recently, as the employment situation among my friends is pretty dire. It's really becoming socially and emotionally taxing for all of them. Plus making it hard to meet nice, funny women who don't have a bad life/job situation going on.

March 20, 2011
Educated, Unemployed and Frustrated

By MATTHEW C. KLEIN

WE all enjoy speculating about which Arab regime will be toppled next, but maybe we should be looking closer to home. High unemployment? Check. Out-of-touch elites? Check. Frustrated young people? As a 24-year-old American, I can testify that this rich democracy has plenty of those too.

About one-fourth of Egyptian workers under 25 are unemployed, a statistic that is often cited as a reason for the revolution there. In the United States, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported in January an official unemployment rate of 21 percent for workers ages 16 to 24.

My generation was taught that all we needed to succeed was an education and hard work. Tell that to my friend from high school who studied Chinese and international relations at a top-tier college. He had the misfortune to graduate in the class of 2009, and could find paid work only as a lifeguard and a personal trainer. Unpaid internships at research institutes led to nothing. After more than a year he moved back in with his parents.

Millions of college graduates in rich nations could tell similar stories. In Italy, Portugal and Spain, about one-fourth of college graduates under the age of 25 are unemployed. In the United States, the official unemployment rate for this group is 11.2 percent, but for college graduates 25 and over it is only 4.5 percent.

The true unemployment rate for young graduates is most likely even higher because it fails to account for those who went to graduate school in an attempt to ride out the economic storm or fled the country to teach English overseas. It would be higher still if it accounted for all of those young graduates who have given up looking for full-time work, and are working part time for lack of any alternative.

The cost of youth unemployment is not only financial, but also emotional. Having a job is supposed to be the reward for hours of SAT prep, evenings spent on homework instead of with friends and countless all-nighters writing papers. The millions of young people who cannot get jobs or who take work that does not require a college education are in danger of losing their faith in the future. They are indefinitely postponing the life they wanted and prepared for; all that matters is finding rent money. Even if the job market becomes as robust as it was in 2007 — something economists say could take more than a decade — my generation will have lost years of career-building experience.

It was simple to blame Hosni Mubarak for the frustrations of Egypt’s young people — he had been in power longer than they had been alive. Barack Obama is not such an easy target; besides his democratic legitimacy, he is far from the only one responsible for the weakness of the recovery. In the absence of someone specific to blame, the frustration simply builds.

As governments across the developed world balance their budgets, I fear that the young will bear the brunt of the pain: taxes on workers will be raised and spending on education will be cut while mortgage subsidies and entitlements for the elderly are untouchable. At least the Saudis and Kuwaitis are trying to bribe their younger subjects.

The uprisings in the Middle East and North Africa are a warning for the developed world. Even if an Egyptian-style revolution breaking out in a rich democracy is unthinkable, it is easy to recognize the frustration of a generation that lacks opportunity. Indeed, the “desperate generation” in Portugal got tens of thousands of people to participate in nationwide protests on March 12. How much longer until the rest of the rich world follows their lead?

Matthew C. Klein is a research associate at the Council on Foreign Relations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/21/opinion/21klein.html

[agamemnus]

It's even more frustrating to see a job position for which you are almost perfectly qualified..... almost! The company will always hold out and not hire anyone till they get the perfect candidate, because they feel that there is nothing to lose by waiting. For these companies, there isn't... I feel that there is just no incentive to hire anyone anymore, for whatever reasons.

(I've seen this happening from my end and from close-relative accounts of the other end. The company management/owner just doesn't care if they don't hire anyone, even if they need the manpower to relieve their production line.)

[GGT]

I read that op-ed, too. Our new PA governor proposes cutting funds and grants to our state universities by 50%. We already have one of the top (if not #1) average in-state tuition rates as it is, and I can't imagine any student wanting to double their debt for a degree that could be 'worthless' after graduation. Some of schools' poor decisions were made during boom times, capital improvements for fancy dorms, libraries with marble floors and vaulted grand foyers with two story fountains. But 50% is just brutal and counterproductive.

As governments across the developed world balance their budgets, I fear that the young will bear the brunt of the pain: taxes on workers will be raised and spending on education will be cut while mortgage subsidies and entitlements for the elderly are untouchable. At least the Saudis and Kuwaitis are trying to bribe their younger subjects.

[agamemnus]

I read that op-ed, too. Our new PA governor proposes cutting funds and grants to our state universities by 50%. We already have one of the top (if not #1) average in-state tuition rates as it is, and I can't imagine any student wanting to double their debt for a degree that could be 'worthless' after graduation. Some of schools' poor decisions were made during boom times, capital improvements for fancy dorms, libraries with marble floors and vaulted grand foyers with two story fountains. But 50% is just brutal and counterproductive.

It's fine. Oversupply --> cut the supply!

[GGT]

Supply of what? College-bound youth, or youth in general?

[agamemnus]

Geez, just college-bound youth! You're so extreme.

Edit: and not even. State schools still cost very little compared to private schools (like, 50%-90% less), and there are always community colleges which cost even less.

[GGT]

Geez, just college-bound youth! You're so extreme.

If they don't attend college (or even Community College) they'll have to leave the state to find employment. I mean something beyond food service or other minimum wage jobs. States can't afford to lose young people, leaving behind retirees and elderly.

Edit: and not even. State schools still cost very little compared to private schools (like, 50%-90% less), and there are always community colleges which cost even less.

The point is how higher educations costs have sky rocketed over the last decade.

[agamemnus]

If they don't attend college (or even Community College) they'll have to leave the state to find employment. I mean something beyond food service or other minimum wage jobs. States can't afford to lose young people, leaving behind retirees and elderly.

That doesn't make sense. Why would they have to leave the state?

The point is how higher educations costs have sky rocketed over the last decade.

They have, they have... but not because of the cutting of spending on higher education by the government. One reason possibly is that more foreign students are studying in America now, or it seems that way... and that means more demand for higher education, which means the cost goes up.

[Being]

It's fine. Oversupply --> cut the supply!

That is exactly what we are doing in CA.

CSU Plans To Slash Enrollment


I guess an educated workforce is too much burden for our society.

[Nessus]

Been thinking about this ever-more recently, as the employment situation among my friends is pretty dire. It's really becoming socially and emotionally taxing for all of them. Plus making it hard to meet nice, funny women who don't have a bad life/job situation going on.

What's wrong with Jewish girls?

[Loki]

Been thinking about this ever-more recently, as the employment situation among my friends is pretty dire. It's really becoming socially and emotionally taxing for all of them. Plus making it hard to meet nice, funny women who don't have a bad life/job situation going on.

You don't go out with people who have a bad job situation?

[agamemnus]

No he doesn't. They're useless dregs of society, after all.

[Dreadnaught]

What's wrong with Jewish girls?

You don't go out with people who have a bad job situation?

No he doesn't. They're useless dregs of society, after all.

Nonono, got it all wrong. Sorta.

Many of the women here my age who are successful tend to be finance/legal drones. Many aren't especially funny, or at least don't see the humor in their work. They like me because I look good on paper, though I probably don't make as much as many of them. But we do have things in common and all of this draws me in before I (more often than not) pull back because I realize they aren't really a match.

On the other side, the other demographic populating my social scene are women I meet who are funny and interesting also happen to be unemployed/underemployed. But they have wealthy parents, so they live the high life and live a lifestyle way beyond what they make. They go out for dinner multiple nights per week, they go on long trips to exotic places, etc. I have actual financial limits, so I have no interest in dropping $200/weekend just on food and drinks.

And I tend not to be too into northeastern Jews. So in a lot of ways I'm sort of stuck in the middle. A whole swath of funny/interesting people who may have developed into hard-working upwardly-mobile folks are toiling away at semi-paid temp jobs and then paying for hard drinks with their parent's credit card.