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Thread: 8.9 magnitude earthquake near Japan, enormous tsunami hitting surrounding areas

  1. #31
    The death of over 10k is an excellent opportunity to attack capitalism.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The death of over 10k is an excellent opportunity to attack capitalism.
    Japan's high standards of national preparedness, and their calm dignity in handling this disaster is a good time to tout the benefits of communitarianism.

  3. #33
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/ja...eforeafter.htm
    Pretty cool side scrolling effect to show the before and afters.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  4. #34
    This has made its way around twitter apparently. Pretty detailed account of nuclear plant construction and safety.

    http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/20...lear-reactors/

    Why I am not worried about Japan’s nuclear reactors.

    Posted on March 13, 2011 by morgsatlarge
    **Update**
    Thanks for your interest. 140 000 hits and counting, number 4 on Twitter as of 4.30pm EST.
    **Update**
    If you wish to share this information, please link to this article. This is the place where Josef will (if he does) post any updates or direct you to the latest version.
    **Update**
    I have to stop moderating the comments as my parents in law have come over to stay with us due to the fear of aftershocks, so I am sorry if that causes any inconvenience, or stifles any debate. I honestly didn’t expect this level of interest (its over 32,000 views as of 11:12pm Japan time)
    Just a few comments. I do not work for the nuclear industry. I am an English teacher, from Australia, living in Kawasaki, Japan. My friend Dr J. Oehmen is a family member, and by far and away the most intelligent person I know. Feel free to believe/disbelieve whatever we have written. There are no conspiracies, however if you need to, feel free to make some up. They are quite entertaining.
    Japanese readers, I hope your family and loved ones are safe, everyone else, no matter what you believe stay safe.
    Morgsatlarge.
    **original post below**
    I know this is a fairly full on statement from someone posting his very first blog. It will also be far and away the most well written, intelligent post I ever make (I hope!) It also means I am not responsible for its content.

    This post is by Dr Josef Oehmen, a research scientist at MIT, in Boston.
    He is a PhD Scientist, whose father has extensive experience in Germany’s nuclear industry. I asked him to write this information to my family in Australia, who were being made sick with worry by the media reports coming from Japan. I am republishing it with his permission.

    It is a few hours old, so if any information is out of date, blame me for the delay in getting it published.
    This is his text in full and unedited. It is very long, so get comfy.
    I am writing this text (Mar 12) to give you some peace of mind regarding some of the troubles in Japan, that is the safety of Japan’s nuclear reactors. Up front, the situation is serious, but under control. And this text is long! But you will know more about nuclear power plants after reading it than all journalists on this planet put together.
    There was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity.
    By “significant” I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on – say – a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation.
    I have been reading every news release on the incident since the earthquake. There has not been one single (!) report that was accurate and free of errors (and part of that problem is also a weakness in the Japanese crisis communication). By “not free of errors” I do not refer to tendentious anti-nuclear journalism – that is quite normal these days. By “not free of errors” I mean blatant errors regarding physics and natural law, as well as gross misinterpretation of facts, due to an obvious lack of fundamental and basic understanding of the way nuclear reactors are build and operated. I have read a 3 page report on CNN where every single paragraph contained an error.
    We will have to cover some fundamentals, before we get into what is going on.
    Construction of the Fukushima nuclear power plants
    The plants at Fukushima are so called Boiling Water Reactors, or BWR for short. Boiling Water Reactors are similar to a pressure cooker. The nuclear fuel heats water, the water boils and creates steam, the steam then drives turbines that create the electricity, and the steam is then cooled and condensed back to water, and the water send back to be heated by the nuclear fuel. The pressure cooker operates at about 250 °C.
    The nuclear fuel is uranium oxide. Uranium oxide is a ceramic with a very high melting point of about 3000 °C. The fuel is manufactured in pellets (think little cylinders the size of Lego bricks). Those pieces are then put into a long tube made of Zircaloy with a melting point of 2200 °C, and sealed tight. The assembly is called a fuel rod. These fuel rods are then put together to form larger packages, and a number of these packages are then put into the reactor. All these packages together are referred to as “the core”.
    The Zircaloy casing is the first containment. It separates the radioactive fuel from the rest of the world.
    The core is then placed in the “pressure vessels”. That is the pressure cooker we talked about before. The pressure vessels is the second containment. This is one sturdy piece of a pot, designed to safely contain the core for temperatures several hundred °C. That covers the scenarios where cooling can be restored at some point.
    The entire “hardware” of the nuclear reactor – the pressure vessel and all pipes, pumps, coolant (water) reserves, are then encased in the third containment. The third containment is a hermetically (air tight) sealed, very thick bubble of the strongest steel. The third containment is designed, built and tested for one single purpose: To contain, indefinitely, a complete core meltdown. For that purpose, a large and thick concrete basin is cast under the pressure vessel (the second containment), which is filled with graphite, all inside the third containment. This is the so-called “core catcher”. If the core melts and the pressure vessel bursts (and eventually melts), it will catch the molten fuel and everything else. It is built in such a way that the nuclear fuel will be spread out, so it can cool down.
    This third containment is then surrounded by the reactor building. The reactor building is an outer shell that is supposed to keep the weather out, but nothing in. (this is the part that was damaged in the explosion, but more to that later).
    Fundamentals of nuclear reactions
    The uranium fuel generates heat by nuclear fission. Big uranium atoms are split into smaller atoms. That generates heat plus neutrons (one of the particles that forms an atom). When the neutron hits another uranium atom, that splits, generating more neutrons and so on. That is called the nuclear chain reaction.
    Now, just packing a lot of fuel rods next to each other would quickly lead to overheating and after about 45 minutes to a melting of the fuel rods. It is worth mentioning at this point that the nuclear fuel in a reactor can *never* cause a nuclear explosion the type of a nuclear bomb. Building a nuclear bomb is actually quite difficult (ask Iran). In Chernobyl, the explosion was caused by excessive pressure buildup, hydrogen explosion and rupture of all containments, propelling molten core material into the environment (a “dirty bomb”). Why that did not and will not happen in Japan, further below.
    In order to control the nuclear chain reaction, the reactor operators use so-called “control rods”. The control rods absorb the neutrons and kill the chain reaction instantaneously. A nuclear reactor is built in such a way, that when operating normally, you take out all the control rods. The coolant water then takes away the heat (and converts it into steam and electricity) at the same rate as the core produces it. And you have a lot of leeway around the standard operating point of 250°C.
    The challenge is that after inserting the rods and stopping the chain reaction, the core still keeps producing heat. The uranium “stopped” the chain reaction. But a number of intermediate radioactive elements are created by the uranium during its fission process, most notably Cesium and Iodine isotopes, i.e. radioactive versions of these elements that will eventually split up into smaller atoms and not be radioactive anymore. Those elements keep decaying and producing heat. Because they are not regenerated any longer from the uranium (the uranium stopped decaying after the control rods were put in), they get less and less, and so the core cools down over a matter of days, until those intermediate radioactive elements are used up.
    This residual heat is causing the headaches right now.
    So the first “type” of radioactive material is the uranium in the fuel rods, plus the intermediate radioactive elements that the uranium splits into, also inside the fuel rod (Cesium and Iodine).
    There is a second type of radioactive material created, outside the fuel rods. The big main difference up front: Those radioactive materials have a very short half-life, that means that they decay very fast and split into non-radioactive materials. By fast I mean seconds. So if these radioactive materials are released into the environment, yes, radioactivity was released, but no, it is not dangerous, at all. Why? By the time you spelled “R-A-D-I-O-N-U-C-L-I-D-E”, they will be harmless, because they will have split up into non radioactive elements. Those radioactive elements are N-16, the radioactive isotope (or version) of nitrogen (air). The others are noble gases such as Xenon. But where do they come from? When the uranium splits, it generates a neutron (see above). Most of these neutrons will hit other uranium atoms and keep the nuclear chain reaction going. But some will leave the fuel rod and hit the water molecules, or the air that is in the water. Then, a non-radioactive element can “capture” the neutron. It becomes radioactive. As described above, it will quickly (seconds) get rid again of the neutron to return to its former beautiful self.
    This second “type” of radiation is very important when we talk about the radioactivity being released into the environment later on.
    What happened at Fukushima
    I will try to summarize the main facts. The earthquake that hit Japan was 7 times more powerful than the worst earthquake the nuclear power plant was built for (the Richter scale works logarithmically; the difference between the 8.2 that the plants were built for and the 8.9 that happened is 5 times, not 0.7). So the first hooray for Japanese engineering, everything held up.
    When the earthquake hit with 8.9, the nuclear reactors all went into automatic shutdown. Within seconds after the earthquake started, the control rods had been inserted into the core and nuclear chain reaction of the uranium stopped. Now, the cooling system has to carry away the residual heat. The residual heat load is about 3% of the heat load under normal operating conditions.
    The earthquake destroyed the external power supply of the nuclear reactor. That is one of the most serious accidents for a nuclear power plant, and accordingly, a “plant black out” receives a lot of attention when designing backup systems. The power is needed to keep the coolant pumps working. Since the power plant had been shut down, it cannot produce any electricity by itself any more.
    Things were going well for an hour. One set of multiple sets of emergency Diesel power generators kicked in and provided the electricity that was needed. Then the Tsunami came, much bigger than people had expected when building the power plant (see above, factor 7). The tsunami took out all multiple sets of backup Diesel generators.
    When designing a nuclear power plant, engineers follow a philosophy called “Defense of Depth”. That means that you first build everything to withstand the worst catastrophe you can imagine, and then design the plant in such a way that it can still handle one system failure (that you thought could never happen) after the other. A tsunami taking out all backup power in one swift strike is such a scenario. The last line of defense is putting everything into the third containment (see above), that will keep everything, whatever the mess, control rods in our out, core molten or not, inside the reactor.
    When the diesel generators were gone, the reactor operators switched to emergency battery power. The batteries were designed as one of the backups to the backups, to provide power for cooling the core for 8 hours. And they did.
    Within the 8 hours, another power source had to be found and connected to the power plant. The power grid was down due to the earthquake. The diesel generators were destroyed by the tsunami. So mobile diesel generators were trucked in.
    This is where things started to go seriously wrong. The external power generators could not be connected to the power plant (the plugs did not fit). So after the batteries ran out, the residual heat could not be carried away any more.
    At this point the plant operators begin to follow emergency procedures that are in place for a “loss of cooling event”. It is again a step along the “Depth of Defense” lines. The power to the cooling systems should never have failed completely, but it did, so they “retreat” to the next line of defense. All of this, however shocking it seems to us, is part of the day-to-day training you go through as an operator, right through to managing a core meltdown.
    It was at this stage that people started to talk about core meltdown. Because at the end of the day, if cooling cannot be restored, the core will eventually melt (after hours or days), and the last line of defense, the core catcher and third containment, would come into play.
    But the goal at this stage was to manage the core while it was heating up, and ensure that the first containment (the Zircaloy tubes that contains the nuclear fuel), as well as the second containment (our pressure cooker) remain intact and operational for as long as possible, to give the engineers time to fix the cooling systems.
    Because cooling the core is such a big deal, the reactor has a number of cooling systems, each in multiple versions (the reactor water cleanup system, the decay heat removal, the reactor core isolating cooling, the standby liquid cooling system, and the emergency core cooling system). Which one failed when or did not fail is not clear at this point in time.
    So imagine our pressure cooker on the stove, heat on low, but on. The operators use whatever cooling system capacity they have to get rid of as much heat as possible, but the pressure starts building up. The priority now is to maintain integrity of the first containment (keep temperature of the fuel rods below 2200°C), as well as the second containment, the pressure cooker. In order to maintain integrity of the pressure cooker (the second containment), the pressure has to be released from time to time. Because the ability to do that in an emergency is so important, the reactor has 11 pressure release valves. The operators now started venting steam from time to time to control the pressure. The temperature at this stage was about 550°C.
    This is when the reports about “radiation leakage” starting coming in. I believe I explained above why venting the steam is theoretically the same as releasing radiation into the environment, but why it was and is not dangerous. The radioactive nitrogen as well as the noble gases do not pose a threat to human health.
    At some stage during this venting, the explosion occurred. The explosion took place outside of the third containment (our “last line of defense”), and the reactor building. Remember that the reactor building has no function in keeping the radioactivity contained. It is not entirely clear yet what has happened, but this is the likely scenario: The operators decided to vent the steam from the pressure vessel not directly into the environment, but into the space between the third containment and the reactor building (to give the radioactivity in the steam more time to subside). The problem is that at the high temperatures that the core had reached at this stage, water molecules can “disassociate” into oxygen and hydrogen – an explosive mixture. And it did explode, outside the third containment, damaging the reactor building around. It was that sort of explosion, but inside the pressure vessel (because it was badly designed and not managed properly by the operators) that lead to the explosion of Chernobyl. This was never a risk at Fukushima. The problem of hydrogen-oxygen formation is one of the biggies when you design a power plant (if you are not Soviet, that is), so the reactor is build and operated in a way it cannot happen inside the containment. It happened outside, which was not intended but a possible scenario and OK, because it did not pose a risk for the containment.
    So the pressure was under control, as steam was vented. Now, if you keep boiling your pot, the problem is that the water level will keep falling and falling. The core is covered by several meters of water in order to allow for some time to pass (hours, days) before it gets exposed. Once the rods start to be exposed at the top, the exposed parts will reach the critical temperature of 2200 °C after about 45 minutes. This is when the first containment, the Zircaloy tube, would fail.
    And this started to happen. The cooling could not be restored before there was some (very limited, but still) damage to the casing of some of the fuel. The nuclear material itself was still intact, but the surrounding Zircaloy shell had started melting. What happened now is that some of the byproducts of the uranium decay – radioactive Cesium and Iodine – started to mix with the steam. The big problem, uranium, was still under control, because the uranium oxide rods were good until 3000 °C. It is confirmed that a very small amount of Cesium and Iodine was measured in the steam that was released into the atmosphere.
    It seems this was the “go signal” for a major plan B. The small amounts of Cesium that were measured told the operators that the first containment on one of the rods somewhere was about to give. The Plan A had been to restore one of the regular cooling systems to the core. Why that failed is unclear. One plausible explanation is that the tsunami also took away / polluted all the clean water needed for the regular cooling systems.
    The water used in the cooling system is very clean, demineralized (like distilled) water. The reason to use pure water is the above mentioned activation by the neutrons from the Uranium: Pure water does not get activated much, so stays practically radioactive-free. Dirt or salt in the water will absorb the neutrons quicker, becoming more radioactive. This has no effect whatsoever on the core – it does not care what it is cooled by. But it makes life more difficult for the operators and mechanics when they have to deal with activated (i.e. slightly radioactive) water.
    But Plan A had failed – cooling systems down or additional clean water unavailable – so Plan B came into effect. This is what it looks like happened:
    In order to prevent a core meltdown, the operators started to use sea water to cool the core. I am not quite sure if they flooded our pressure cooker with it (the second containment), or if they flooded the third containment, immersing the pressure cooker. But that is not relevant for us.
    The point is that the nuclear fuel has now been cooled down. Because the chain reaction has been stopped a long time ago, there is only very little residual heat being produced now. The large amount of cooling water that has been used is sufficient to take up that heat. Because it is a lot of water, the core does not produce sufficient heat any more to produce any significant pressure. Also, boric acid has been added to the seawater. Boric acid is “liquid control rod”. Whatever decay is still going on, the Boron will capture the neutrons and further speed up the cooling down of the core.
    The plant came close to a core meltdown. Here is the worst-case scenario that was avoided: If the seawater could not have been used for treatment, the operators would have continued to vent the water steam to avoid pressure buildup. The third containment would then have been completely sealed to allow the core meltdown to happen without releasing radioactive material. After the meltdown, there would have been a waiting period for the intermediate radioactive materials to decay inside the reactor, and all radioactive particles to settle on a surface inside the containment. The cooling system would have been restored eventually, and the molten core cooled to a manageable temperature. The containment would have been cleaned up on the inside. Then a messy job of removing the molten core from the containment would have begun, packing the (now solid again) fuel bit by bit into transportation containers to be shipped to processing plants. Depending on the damage, the block of the plant would then either be repaired or dismantled.
    Now, where does that leave us?

    • The plant is safe now and will stay safe.
    • Japan is looking at an INES Level 4 Accident: Nuclear accident with local consequences. That is bad for the company that owns the plant, but not for anyone else.
    • Some radiation was released when the pressure vessel was vented. All radioactive isotopes from the activated steam have gone (decayed). A very small amount of Cesium was released, as well as Iodine. If you were sitting on top of the plants’ chimney when they were venting, you should probably give up smoking to return to your former life expectancy. The Cesium and Iodine isotopes were carried out to the sea and will never be seen again.
    • There was some limited damage to the first containment. That means that some amounts of radioactive Cesium and Iodine will also be released into the cooling water, but no Uranium or other nasty stuff (the Uranium oxide does not “dissolve” in the water). There are facilities for treating the cooling water inside the third containment. The radioactive Cesium and Iodine will be removed there and eventually stored as radioactive waste in terminal storage.
    • The seawater used as cooling water will be activated to some degree. Because the control rods are fully inserted, the Uranium chain reaction is not happening. That means the “main” nuclear reaction is not happening, thus not contributing to the activation. The intermediate radioactive materials (Cesium and Iodine) are also almost gone at this stage, because the Uranium decay was stopped a long time ago. This further reduces the activation. The bottom line is that there will be some low level of activation of the seawater, which will also be removed by the treatment facilities.
    • The seawater will then be replaced over time with the “normal” cooling water
    • The reactor core will then be dismantled and transported to a processing facility, just like during a regular fuel change.
    • Fuel rods and the entire plant will be checked for potential damage. This will take about 4-5 years.
    • The safety systems on all Japanese plants will be upgraded to withstand a 9.0 earthquake and tsunami (or worse)
    • I believe the most significant problem will be a prolonged power shortage. About half of Japan’s nuclear reactors will probably have to be inspected, reducing the nation’s power generating capacity by 15%. This will probably be covered by running gas power plants that are usually only used for peak loads to cover some of the base load as well. That will increase your electricity bill, as well as lead to potential power shortages during peak demand, in Japan.

    If you want to stay informed, please forget the usual media outlets and consult the following websites:


  5. #35
    More insane footage
    http://video.l3.fbcdn.net/cfs-l3-snc...eeaecd6dc12abf

    Once the cameraman climbs the stairs, the neighborhood starts to float away
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  6. #36
    While it's eye-opening to have all this video footage and everything....I wonder how wise some of this filming is, the risks they take. Some guy in CA got washed away trying to take pictures of the incoming waves.


    Did you notice that cluster of people on the roof top at the very end? Their alarm warning system must have saved thousands of lives. At least it looked like the cars were empty and no one was riding a house down the street of water.

    They also had a volcano erupt on the southern end!
    Last edited by GGT; 03-14-2011 at 03:46 AM.

  7. #37
    The nuclear reactor problems are yet another challenge for the Japanese. I don't doubt they are on top of things. The media is playing up the risks, so it's rather hard for the lay person to make a rational decision about what's going on. I haven't seen any one say it out loud yet, but Japan has special status when it comes to being victims of nuclear radiation....

  8. #38
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    The radiation leaked so far is, AFAIK, less than what was leaked a few years ago in France (multiple times within a year IIRC).
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    The radiation leaked so far is, AFAIK, less than what was leaked a few years ago in France (multiple times within a year IIRC).
    This is just my personal guess, but I think Japan having any radioactivity affecting the populace is more of an emotional scare than a scientific scare. Based on WWII history, not on modern nuclear science.

  10. #40


    now I'm depressed
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  11. #41
    I saw that photo yesterday. Broke my heart, totally. Reading the caption was like adding salt to a wound.

    Also saw pics of what looked like babies wrapped in blankets, but they were corpses being carried out of the debris.

    I may have to stop reading the news. It's just too damn depressing.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
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    A building in Tokyo swaying due to the quake:



  13. #43
    Had a hard time deciding if this belonged here, or Dread's "I hate pets" thread.

    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  14. #44
    It's incredible how collected the Japanese people are at this point. After the earthquake in Chile and after hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, people looted homes and stores for food to a point it became a media attraction. In Japan on the other hand, there haven't been reports of any increase in theft or other crimes. Most people wait patiently in line for food supplies, and the general drift is that everyone strays away from looting as they are in the same boot, and surely there are someone out there even worse off.

    I find also the fact that children die last while men die first, to be very touching. The Japanese know they are not the center of the world, and that they are part of a social group that will withstand after the crisis. They do not desire to outshine each other nearly as much as we do in the Western world. This is reflected just as great in a crisis like this, as when Japanese citizens actually do go to prison on a rare occasion, in where they are immediately treated to get back into a functioning state for normal society.

    That's one amazing part of the Japanese culture and their pride. Some of you who have followed this case might have seen that few tears have been shed as well. As the primary minister said, it is because the Japanese people know that everyone are sad, and that they hence shouldn't need to show it to others, furthering the despair.

    Hence this picture is quite representative.



    Japan versus New Orleans. And no, I did not pick the picture because it had a black guy up against an Asian one. It is about locality and culture, social standings etc. Naturally the man looting could be an Asian too having been raised there. No racism implied at all, just pointing out how damn respectable the Japanese culture appears to be. Is there no red large button in the minds of these people I wonder?
    Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?

  15. #45
    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Globa...ience+Monitor+

    Not looking good. As I understand it, its a fire at a fuel storage location, not with the reactor itself. Ultimately I'm not sure it matters as the news is gonna report this to high hell. Either way, its looking worse and worse as this is gonna hamper recovery operations.

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/158/158132/15813230/jpg/active/978x.jpg[/IMG]

    Japan versus New Orleans. And no, I did not pick the picture because it had a black guy up against an Asian one. It is about locality and culture, social standings etc. Naturally the man looting could be an Asian too having been raised there. No racism implied at all, just pointing out how damn respectable the Japanese culture appears to be. Is there no red large button in the minds of these people I wonder?
    Doesn't seem like a fair comparison at all. One guy happens to be carrying a baby, the other guy happens to be carrying supplies. What the heck is the difference?

    And Japan's "compliant" society also has downsides.

    Plus New Orleans isn't exactly a model of America. It was basically a failed city before Katrina.

  17. #47
    The picture represents that while during disasters the Japanese keep a rare statistic of babies and children dying last thanks to their morals, elsewhere in the world what is commonly associated with natural disasters, is chaos and selfishness in that theft and the likes increase substantially. I am merely praising the integrity of the people as something quite special and admirable. It relates to how controlled they seem to be even now, and is much thanks to the close relationship and trust built between the government and regular folks.

    I'm not rendering Japan as superior in general, just saying that their way of handling a crisis seems to be near perfect.
    Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Plus New Orleans isn't exactly a model of America. It was basically a failed city before Katrina.
    You could use this kind of hindsight on just about every major US city.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    The picture represents that while during disasters the Japanese keep a rare statistic of babies and children dying last thanks to their morals, elsewhere in the world what is commonly associated with natural disasters, is chaos and selfishness in that theft and the likes increase substantially. I am merely praising the integrity of the people as something quite special and admirable. It relates to how controlled they seem to be even now, and is much thanks to the close relationship and trust built between the government and regular folks.

    I'm not rendering Japan as superior in general, just saying that their way of handling a crisis seems to be near perfect.
    While ritualistic child cannibalism became the norm in post-Katrina New Orleans?

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    that while during disasters the Japanese keep a rare statistic of babies and children dying last
    What does that mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    You could use this kind of hindsight on just about every major US city.
    Some people *raises hand* had made that sort of comment before the hurricane.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  21. #51
    wow, the road crews over there do not fuck around

    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  22. #52
    That is crazy! They even planted a line of bushes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    While ritualistic child cannibalism became the norm in post-Katrina New Orleans?
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    What does that mean?
    Not necessarily in New Orleans as I know of, but in many African countries struck by disaster, the children are usually those who die first as they are the most fragile and hardest to protect. Japan is the only spot on the face of the Earth that I've recollected got a statistic where children are actually the last to die. In Japan, it is pretty much the opposite order of the outcome you would initially expect: men die first. I personally cannot see any reason for that other than that they risk their lives to save others, either by sharing their rations of food and liquid, or by attempting daring rescues brief moments after the disaster. Naturally though, there could be some completely unrelated factor that is predominant, but I like to think of the noble thoughts until otherwise is proven.
    Tomorrow is like an empty canvas that extends endlessly, what should I sketch on it?

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    That is crazy! They even planted a line of bushes.
    Nah, that was there before. Still impressive.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  24. #54
    The photos show a practically destroyed #3 and half-destroyed #4. Reports that some of the spent fuel rods in storage are totally uncovered, and the military is dropping water from helicopters.

    Japan has a 20 mile danger radius, recommending to shelter-in-place, sealing off air vents. But the US has a 50 mile danger radius and recommends Americans evacuate.

    Well, what about the families of our military based there? Sounds like conflicting information from Tokyo Electric to the government, too. Does Japan really need to ask the international nuclear science community to help them out? WTF is going on?

  25. #55
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/bu...arkets.html?hp

    Does someone want to explain that to me?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuha Vinland View Post
    Hence this picture is quite representative.

    Japan versus New Orleans. And no, I did not pick the picture because it had a black guy up against an Asian one. It is about locality and culture, social standings etc. Naturally the man looting could be an Asian too having been raised there. No racism implied at all, just pointing out how damn respectable the Japanese culture appears to be. Is there no red large button in the minds of these people I wonder?
    This is the caption for the photo on the left:

    Upon hearing another tsunami warning, a father tries to flee for safety with his just reunited four-month-old baby girl who was spotted by Japan's Self-Defense Force member in the rubble of tsunami-torn Ishinomaki Monday, March 14, three days after a powerful earthquake-triggered tsunami hit northeast Japan. (Hiroto Sekiguchi / AP)

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42034875...4/from/toolbar

    Notice the New Orleans streets are dry with no debris, grass is green, no mud. Looks like he's found a place distributing first aid kits and toiletries at higher ground, or post-clean-up. What makes you assume he's looting?



    EDIT to Loki:

    "Growing uncertainty over the nuclear plant really spooked investors, promoting them to adjust positions and buy back the yen," said Masatoshi Sato, market analyst at Mizuho Investors Securities Co. Ltd.

    "Foreign investors continued to dump stocks on growing fears over the nuclear accidents. Also investors are worried that the quake and the nuclear disaster could surely dent economic growth," Sato said.

    Major natural disasters like earthquakes tends to bolster the yen because investors expect the Japanese public and insurance companies to buy back their home currency in order to fund the country's reconstruction, increasing demand for the yen.

    Some analysts have said they expected the Bank of Japan to sell dollars in an attempt to weaken the Japanese currency if the dollar dropped below 80 yen. A strong yen hurts the Asian country's exporters, potentially deepening the already severe hit to the world's No. 3 economy from the multiple disasters.
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Japan-....html?x=0&.v=2
    Last edited by GGT; 03-17-2011 at 05:17 AM.

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    You could use this kind of hindsight on just about every major US city.
    Except the same kind of thing wouldn't happen in every major US city.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/bu...arkets.html?hp

    Does someone want to explain that to me?
    I actually bought three stocks two days ago counting on this (a Chinese technology company, a US railway and an index of preferred stock). So far I've been mostly vindicated, though I don't buy things for the short term.

    But my main philosophy was the massive stock drops were overreactions to the blaring headlines about meltdowns. This is most certainly a massively bad situation, but it's not the kind of thing that will cripple the economy. A section area of Japan has been damaged, but it's not as if the tsunami hit their industrial core. The few connections I have living in Japan have described life outside of the diaster area as mostly getting back to normal, albeit with power disruptions.

    All-in-all, it's a resilient first-world economy.

  28. #58
    Banking on disaster? And bragging about it? Bravo.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  29. #59
    Quite the opposite actually. While many sold-off assets, I said, "they'll get through this" and bought-in.

    Remember, buying a stock != stealing money from dead bodies.

  30. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Quite the opposite actually. While many sold-off assets, I said, "they'll get through this" and bought-in.

    Remember, buying a stock != stealing money from dead bodies.
    Spending your extra cash on yourself when so many are in need tells the story.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

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