So one should be penniless until there is no pain and suffering?
I donated $50 to the Red Cross this morning for Japan relief. And guess what? Some of the money I made through investing. And my job. This is what people do, you know.
So one should be penniless until there is no pain and suffering?
I donated $50 to the Red Cross this morning for Japan relief. And guess what? Some of the money I made through investing. And my job. This is what people do, you know.
Defensiveness usually indicates the bragging was a bad idea.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
You're the one who seems to be defending poverty. I made a good move, I'm happy about that.
Of course you are. $50 saved your soul.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
So, no one should make money. Or donate money to charity. Ever.
Is that what you're saying? I mean give me a fucking break.
He's right Dread. Spending time on an online forum spouting sanctimonious garbage is clearly the better tale to tell.Originally Posted by Being
Apparently not as resilient as you think, and crippling enough to ask for 'international currency intervention'. And more than a section of Japan has been damaged. That's an understatement, regardless of what your connections say.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Finance officials from the Group of Seven major industrialized countries on Thursday agreed on a coordinated effort to weaken the Japanese yen, which has surged to record levels following last week's earthquake and tsunami.
A super-strong yen could cripple Japanese exports, further worsening the economic impact of the disaster that killed thousands and triggered an unfolding nuclear crisis.
The coordinated intervention in international currency markets marked the first by the G-7 countries since the fall of 2000, when the G-7 intervened in an effort to bolster the euro.
In a joint statement issued following emergency discussions, the G-7 officials said that the United States, Britain, Canada and the European Central Bank will join with Japan in a "concerted intervention" in currency markets Friday.
"We express our solidarity with the Japanese people in these difficult times, our readiness to provided needed cooperation and our confidence in the resilience of the Japanese economy and financial sector," the G-7 finance officials said in their joint statement.
The announcement came following a telephone conference call among finance officials from the G-7 nations -- the United States, Japan, Germany, Britain, France, Italy and Canada. U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke represented the United States on the call.
The announcement came just as stock trading opened in Tokyo on Friday and had an immediate positive impact. Tokyo's Nikkei index was up about 2 percent.
Shortly after the announcement, the yen fell against the dollar, dropping from 79.25 yen to buy $1 to 81.58 yen to purchase $1.
Japan's Finance Minister Yoshihiko Noda said the planned intervention was meant to calm "volatility" and G-7 governments were not aiming at a specific exchange rate for the yen.
Perhaps, but this statements tells us so much more.
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
IMO it was the way Dread wrote it, he came off sounding crass to me, too.
Now I'm going to mention something that might sound in poor taste, especially since there are still so many Japanese unaccounted for, and their situation doesn't seem to be improving as fast as we'd like. But I've read about it on the web, the elephant in the room. Quite a sad elephant:
Many of those who couldn't escape the tsunami were elderly or physically challenged. Heart breaking stories from spouses or children who couldn't help, and had to choose between saving grandma or themselves, but doing both was impossible. Many did carry elderly on their backs piggy-back, or move the hospitalized to higher ground --- and remain with them as caretakers. But my guess is the elderly will be the largest portion of the deceased, because they just couldn't move fast enough. Even if they could, without special nutrition or medical care, they may die waiting in shelters.
Sad to say, but that could help the Japanese in economic recovery, to have less of an aged population. That was one of their demographic challenges, more elderly than workers to support them.
So? I find Being's typical reaction of Oooooo your having more money than anyone else = bad the more irritating.
But even if you did find it crass, you had the class not to get all bitchy about it as Being.
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
Banking on disaster? And bragging about it? Bravo.
Not a word about who has more money. It's about bragging and the pitiful thing being bragged about. Banking on disaster.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
You're going to have to explain how this is banking on disaster. Right now you're just coming off like a self-righteous tool...
. . .
Banking on disaster is a prediction that a disaster will happen in the future and getting set up to exploit the consequences. That's clearly not what Dread did, he made an investment after a disaster in the expectation that the low prices now are a panic over-reaction. In the terms you're using, he's banking on effective disaster recovery.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Plenty of people try to capitalize on current disasters, or anticipate future disasters. They're usually called "speculators", but not "value investors". They exploit volatility over stability, thrive on risk over prudence, delight on gambling human suffering against irrational exuberance.
It's a perfectly legal and legitimate avenue for extracting profits from risk. Even if it means millions of real human beings are suffering, even dying, while the traders and speculators are calculating their profit/loss, P/E ratios, capital gains, or tax liabilities. Counting their monies, ignoring dead bodies. Removing their human heart from humanity, and giving it to their pocketbook. Justifying it by saying "Life is always full of tragedy and disaster, so why shouldn't I profit from that?" or "Just because millions are suffering doesn't mean I should stop making money on their backs".
That's when it becomes crass.
Dread et al would probably say it's abhorrent that certain "investors" profited by WWII and extracting Jewish valuables, or anyone that profited from their loss. Fast forward a couple of decades, maybe not so much.
Yeah I don't think thats what Dread is doing, and what my comment was meant to imply. Or actually my comment was to try and get Being to come up with an argument as to how Dread is profiting from disaster so that either it could be shown for the flimsy excuse that it is, or get him to realize that there isn't a legitimate one.
. . .
Not all speculation is the same. Some speculation models can heighten volatility. Speculation of the sort Dread did dampens it. Some speculation models can tear the ground out from under markets or even whole economies. The speculation Dread did actually props them up. The only negative associated with the type of speculation Dread just did *besides a relativistic claim that he took advantage of people in a panic, who were in turn taking relative advantage by limiting their losses in the face of a disaster* is that it is high risk and consequently insomuch as is stabilizes those markets it does so in part by shifting some of that volatility over to other unaffected markets Dread is in.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Investing "wisely" usually means being unemotional and non-sentimental. That can mean parking one's principles and ethics on the sidelines, for the sake of making a few bucks. Or spending dollars. That has always been true. Nowadays it doesn't even have to be "emotional or sentimental" value but based on changing culture and information.
Example: anyone getting married today should weigh what gold/diamonds/platinum means (beyond the Bitter Jeweler creating the art they buy and wear). Anyone looking at how diamonds, gold or platinum are mined, or how those workers are treated and paid, would probably not buy a wedding ring with precious minerals or gems at all......would they? Couldn't they have the same gorgeous ring made from man-made materials that didn't exploit desperate workers?
As I said, it was the way he said it. You're not really responsible for explaining or defending Dread's investments, or how he posts. But I do know what you mean.
So now it's a semantics argument.
Go ahead and ignore the fact that if there had been no disaster, Dread wouldn't have been bragging about trying to profit from (bank on) these purchases of panic-valued positions because he wouldn't have had an opportunity to make them.
Fine, I'll rephrase...Profiting from disaster? And bragging about it? Bravo.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Dread also bought stock in an Irish bank, but only after the bank was nationalized and their sovereign debt was an issue. He's not the only person who uses that strategy, but he's the only one in this forum who "brags" about that strategy. He can only speak for himself in that matter, but I suspect he'll point to other people who use that strategy.
The moral thing to do would be for nobody to buy those stocks while people are panicing, let the stock plunge to punish anyone who didn't panic fast or hard enough, let the companies eventually go under, and let people lose their jobs and the negative economic effects continue to ripple outwards. That's the only ethical choice.
And if it wasn't for this disaster, you wouldn't have had an opportunity to insult Dread, and attempt to use a forum to make yourself look better than someone else! Congratulations Being, using your own logic, you're a jackass too!So now it's a semantics argument.
. . .
No. The ethical thing to do is to not brag about it.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
I'm amazed at your blindness...Dread insulted himself.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Well, no. The fact is you're just out and out wrong and are engaging in a continuing campaign of attacking and/or baiting Dread. Illusions and I just pointed out that you couldn't even do that right.So now it's a semantics argument.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
The "ethical investor" would be willing to take a leap by buying stocks or bonds that would re-build Japan, even before the dust has cleared. Maybe that means buying things pegged to the yen: the insurers or re-insurers responsible for private claims, GE as the parent company for those failing nuclear reactors, their publicly owned railroad or transit system, contributing to whichever NGO is providing their shelters with water and food, or sending funds to Doctors Without Border or disaster-trained search dogs.....
The "ethical investor" isn't limited to buying public stocks or squeezing personal profits from disasters.
That would still be profiting from a disaster*, and if Dread ever mentioned it, Being would be on his case.
*Being's logic.
. . .
I think too many of you are beating up on Being, who's been fairly consistent. Dread, on the other hand, is almost asking to be challenged because he's changed rather drastically and noticeably from just a couple of years ago, when he was still as student and journalist. That's a tangent to this thread, based on personalities. It's not unreasonable for anyone to ask when changes in principle look like personality conflicts, no matter who asks.
So consistent idiocy is okay, and should go unchallenged, simply because it is consistent?
Yes, your consistency is ok. I never challenge your idiocy.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
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