Apparently we gave Libya about a million a year for the last few years to secure its borders and professionalize its military. That must be the three billion a year GGT referred to.Of course if we gave Libya $3 a year, she would also take that as support.
Hope is the denial of reality
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...ideast-unrest/
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/0...orders-022811/The EU gets almost 5 percent of its fuel from Libya, which has the largest proven oil reserves in Africa, ahead of even Nigeria and Algeria. In 2009, the EU imported $27.5 billion in fuel from Libya — accounting for 85 percent of all the $32 billion in fuel that Libya exported that year, according to World Trade Organization figures.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...73O58720110425The United States has contributed $47 million to emergency relief in Libya, which has seen more than half a million people including many migrant laborers flee to neighboring countries and raised fears of a humanitarian catastrophe.
Last week Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced the United States was moving to provide an additional $25 million in medical supplies, radios and other non-lethal aid directly to Libya's rebels, although this has not yet been disbursed.
Say what you will about current aid or past aid.....Libya has received millions of dollars from the west. Pre and Post Crisis.
WTF, that refers to aid given to rebels.
The first article doesn't refer to aid at all. Can you not read?
Hope is the denial of reality
Oh come on, stop being an ass. I clearly stated I wasn't sure about millions or billions.Originally Posted by Loki
Apparently we gave Libya about a million a year for the last few years to secure its borders and professionalize its military. That must be the three billion a year GGT referred to.
The US helped fund Libya's borders and military, or their educational or medical structures. We have sent Libya money for a long time, even after Lockerbie.
Are you saying we did not?
Hope is the denial of reality
We've been sending it for five years, GGT. You don't know what you are talking about.
And that was in the wake of the Lockerbie settlement, which saw Qaddafi give $10 million for each victim of the attack. I.E. He gave more per victim than he received in his entire time as Libyan leader.
Hope is the denial of reality
It's not cognitive dissonance. There's nothing conflicting on her side. It's willful ignorance/denial.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
She does interpret things that have no relation to her argument as being supportive of her argument. I suppose that doesn't strictly meet the definition of cognitive dissonance.
Hope is the denial of reality
Wow, any one else want to tell me how wrong I am? Window open.....
And how does that translate to how right our foreign policy has been? Especially when it comes to bin Laden, AQ, Taliban, Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan
After a while, when you stop dissing me for being an idiot, you'll still have to discuss the issues at hand.
I'd agree our foreign policy has been a mess, and I agree that discussion regarding it's future direction is important, however I think you'd be taken more seriously in that discussion if you have shown any knowledge grounded in reality on the subject. Claiming that America has been supporting Libya with billions of dollars a year for several years isn't just mentally fudging figures, it's demonstrating complete ignorance in our foreign policy with regards to Libya over the last thirty plus years, let alone our countries shared history. Trying desperately to dig yourself out of that hole instead of admitting being wrong isn't the sign of someone wanting to have a thoughtful discussion on foreign policy, it's a sign of someone trying to rationalize their dogma.
I can't help but be reminded how as a child my when I was being stubborn or bullheaded, my grandfather used to recite an old Psalm that ended with "...but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
How did I not admit to being wrong about millions or billions? I thought that was clear. How many ways to Tuesday do I need to say that?
Lets pretend the US didn't spend a dime on Libya, Pakistan, Yemen, etc.....none of those nations, not one dime. We'd still have photo-ops of US politicians and leaders meeting and shaking hands. Whispering about secret deals, trade-offs, favors. Charlie Wilson's War type of thing.
That's not me trying to dig out of a hole. That's others refusing to admit the cavern our politicians are yelling from.
So what? Do you think money can replace a loved one? Then you have the nerve to suggest I'm the one suffering from cognitive dissonance?And that was in the wake of the Lockerbie settlement, which saw Qaddafi give $10 million for each victim of the attack. I.E. He gave more per victim than he received in his entire time as Libyan leader.
Edit to add how crappy that comment sounds from you, Loki. You can call me names and suggest I'm stupid....but your above post sounds like dictators or terrorists can do whatever they want, even bomb and blow passengers from the air, as long as they give millions in exchange. Qaddafi "gave more than he received?"
Bullshit.
Can you explain to me how you read in Loki's post "dictators or terrorists can do whatever they want, even bomb and blow passengers from the air, as long as they give millions in exchange"?
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
IE, Qaddafi GAVE MORE PER VICTIM THAN HE RECEIVED ....And that was in the wake of the Lockerbie settlement, which saw Qaddafi give $10 million for each victim of the attack. I.E. He gave more per victim than he received in his entire time as Libyan leader.
Ziggy, did you got caught in my verbiage about giving or getting?
It was clear to me Loki was talking about a financial comparison in light of the context of the discussion which revolves around whether the US funded Qaddafi. It is rather hard to fund something when you have a net loss.
So yeah, he gave more than he received (if Loki's stats are correct.)
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
So? And what exactly does that accomplish? They'll become more careful - whoop-de-doo! They'll still blow shit up. That's not rocket science either.
In reality, nothing was gained.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
{Ziggy} Can you also make the comparison for west, or the US? Could any extremist really reimburse us for our civilian deaths or military ops and deaths? How about impact on our populace, especially fliers?
GGT, is there anything which was actually in my post you wish to discuss?
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
Subsidise? Sponsor? Enable?
Kinda like how the US subsidises/sponsors/enables crime by er paying money for keeping prisoners alive and in rehabilitation. It's disgraceful is what it is.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Re. the recent articles, while GGT quoted a section about the rebels, the first part of the article refers to money that's gone to the regimes. Ie. army, police, what have you. It touched on eg. the irony of calling a person a threat to his own people a month after giving him a couple of million dollars to make his goons better goons. I can only assume that money was in fact for er. non-lethal stuff.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I'm sorry you had to experience that
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
I realise you have a choice and I'd like to thank you for quoting Ziggy Airlines. I hope you had a pleasant post, and you tell your friends and family about us.
Have a nice stay and see you later
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
Are you high?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Yes, a million dollars goes a long way toward making your goons better goons.
Hope is the denial of reality
Nope. I simply haven't got a clue why you quoted me when you did.
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
Local paper said that Osama was only to be taken alive if it was guaranteed he posed no threat, ie was not strapped with bombs. So the only way this wasn't going to be a kill mission was if they found him naked in the shower.
That doesn't sit well with me.
Also saw somewhere that the courier that Osama used and the compound he was found in were in the latest guantanamo wikileak. So they had to push the mission timeframe up. How long were they planning this before hand, and how long were they planning to wait before action was taken?
Osama filled that hole that was left behind by the red scare, wonder where the next "threat" to our livelihood is going to come from...
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Socialism.
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
I honestly have no idea about that, nor do I have any opinion on giving money to dictators that one considers threats to their own people. I was just trying to clarify so you didn't act like an ass for the wrong reason.Yes, a million dollars goes a long way toward making your goons better goons.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
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