Not here in sunny California.Originally Posted by GGT
Not here in sunny California.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
You're using them completely interchangeably.
And why can't the government function by taxing actual activities? What's next, breathing taxes?In case you still don't get it: You should be taxed for owning land because the government has to recognize your ownership of that land, and protect that ownership. They also provide additional services related to your ownership. It does not matter what the hell they do with the money after they collect it so long as they are still upholding their agreement to recognize and protect your ownership.
There is always going to be some level of economic activity, services demanded, etc. I think it's find for the government to tax for that. But taxing someone just for sitting on some land seems to discriminate against those who aren't making as much money from nearly identical parcels of land.
One can go on forever about the principle of taxing someone for recognizing their land rights and protecting them, but at the end of the day the government is still semi-arbitrarily deciding that you "should" make a certain amount from that land and hand over a proportionate share of the money regardless of whether you're actually making that amount of money.
Agreed.I also think it's weird that over there certain services (like public schools) are so directly linked to one specific tax, instead of dipping in the big government fund which is filled by all taxes. Makes it more vulnerable to fluctuations in tax revenue, too.
I think you know that quantity of computers has little to do with it. You've bought your computer. You paid a sales tax on the computer. You paid a sales tax on the software. You pay ongoing taxes on the electricity and internet that powers much of what you do on that computer.
Does it really make sense to you to also tax your computer if it's off? If it's a second computer you don't use too often?
It was the point of my post, you ding-dong
Nation-states have a finite amount of land, even though yours and mine are very sparsely populated, on average.
Plus the gummint has put a lot of money into network infrastructures etc
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
One way to look at it is that the land belongs to the state, and we pay "rent" to hold the deed. The states' attitudes toward land varies between conservancy and commerce, development and tourism. It's a paradox, that's why it's political.One can go on forever about the principle of taxing someone for recognizing their land rights and protecting them, but at the end of the day the government is still semi-arbitrarily deciding that you "should" make a certain amount from that land and hand over a proportionate share of the money regardless of whether you're actually making that amount of money.
Ted Turner owns a gazillion acres of pristine Montana land that he's 'not using', but its value is in not being developed. His taxes are (presumably) lower than if he petitioned to have it zoned Retail-Business to build a megamall, even though a megamall would bring in tons of shoppers and tax revenue. Developers buy defunct farm acreage and push to get it re-zoned Recreation-Residential, then build a golf-course with homes around the edges. They dangle the "property tax = revenue" carrot all the time.
If you're unhappy with state property taxes, blame developers with deep pockets, municipalities with empty pockets, and zoning boards in the middle, as much as you blame "the gummint".
Land doesn't belong to the state. There are countries there this is actually part of the legal code (EG China). I don't think it's really a good idea. Did I ever show people here the pictures of the neighborhood in Shanghai that was demolished by crony capitalism?
I think you have a point about zoning screwing with things, but in many respects zoning is a necessary evil. I don't think property taxes are. If I want to buy land 5 miles away from a giant mall and farm it, that should be an option. I shouldn't have to go to Montana.
Depends on how you want to define land ownership, or how far back in time you want to go. But we don't have Homesteading any more. Squatters are legally evicted from vacant "unowned" land. The state lays claim on deeds when an owner can't be established. Then there's Eminent Domain.
Personally, I'd love it if property taxes were paid once at time of purchase. They already add on a deed transfer tax, a recording tax, a sales tax, and other fees for title search and stuff just to get a deed. Whether the state "owns" the land or not, they have legal authority to require all sorts of things to prove ownership, to require zoning, and to tax. They set the hoops and we have to jump through them.
Ditto for home ownership with a lien or mortgage---the bank owns it until we discharge the lien. We consider the house "ours" but it's really not.
You can buy land 5 miles from a mall and farm it (or start a junk yard, or host raves or whatever) but you've already agreed to follow the zoning laws when you signed the papers, and agreed to get a permit for certain stuff. (I have to pay for a permit to hold a yard sale, and can't have one every weekend. I can't have goats to eat my grass, or put a produce stand at the curb to sell vegetables, either. etc etc)
On the flip side, businesses have a history of coming in, buying up as much property in a location as possible, letting it rot, causing property values to fall/collapse on the neighboring properties and then buying/eminent domaining those for far less then they are truely worth. Screwing the city out of proper property taxes, and the community out of proper developments. Pfizer did this in Connecticut, then walked away from it; they haven't decided if they want to sell or lease the land (corporate welfare via eminent domain), and there was the famous case involving a marina that eventually went the other way, but the area was already ruined by the big business's shady practices.
Cities/states expect a certain return on the land, partly to cover operating expenses, partly to stop people from hoarding land and screwing everyone else over.
Explain how I'm doing this because I'd like to know how you're internalizing all of this because you're more coming off to me like you're incapable of differentiating the two ideas.You're using them completely interchangeably.
They do. Are you completely unaware of the services provided by the government in regards to land ownership?And why can't the government function by taxing actual activities?
Okay, so lets say tomorrow you're exempt from paying taxes on a hypothetical 1 acre plot of land that you own because you're not making money off it. The day after that I'm going to start using it as a dump. Whats your course of action to prevent this from occurring?But taxing someone just for sitting on some land seems to discriminate against those who aren't making as much money from nearly identical parcels of land.
Source? If you're going to keep repeating this, I want a source for it that says they are taxing you for what you can make off the property and not its worth or value expressed in monetary terms, because these are two different things.One can go on forever about the principle of taxing someone for recognizing their land rights and protecting them, but at the end of the day the government is still semi-arbitrarily deciding that you "should" make a certain amount from that land
Last edited by Illusions; 09-27-2010 at 03:59 AM.
. . .
Somebody should mention people like Ted Turner who buy up large chunks of farm property in order to collect subsidies to not grow anything on it.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Yeah, good luck with that.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
I did! But I didn't think he got a subsidy to leave his land fallow.....not like what farmers get to control crop commodities. I thought he got a huge property tax discount to keep it zoned Conservation land. Who knows about the mineral or mining rights or what's up with that.
Principle or no principle, the tax is connected to the value of the land itself, not how much you can make from it.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
God damn my life moves slowly, but I'm not complaining!
Mom is still in her house, no communication from the bank since their "we are starting foreclosure" call, and she is down 1 less cat. We're looking for homes when we can, pretty much set on the area, which means moving out of South Tampa to an area called Brandon. Its got everything we have, except the base, and somehow that makes the homes worth about half the price
I'll be paying off my last credit card next month. First time I'll be credit card debt free since I started using them. Thats pretty fucking big to me.
That also means my last roadblock before proposal and marriage will be gone. We are looking around at designs and whatnot (yeah, still haven't asked the actual question yet). I'm pretty much set on getting a One Ring wedding band, and Brandy agrees that it fits me perfectly. Color is going to depend on what she picks, hoping for yellow gold, but its not that large of a concern. Brandy's jewerly taste (in my opinion) could be a little more refined. She keeps ending up with these rings that aren't solid rocks, but (usually) 4 rocks lined up to appear like a larger stone. Feels cheap IMO. Also need to figure out the 10/14/18K ratings. I know the higher the number the more pure it is, but we both use our hands heavily in our jobs, and we have plenty of marks to prove it, so I don't want to end up with an 18K ring thats going to get marked to shit, but i don't want to get a dull 10K if 18K doesn't mark that easy (and I don't want to worry about either concern if its all marketing bullshit).
Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 02-07-2011 at 03:51 PM.
The easy solution there is to get a 14 karat one.Though I'm sure Bitter can provide better advice, 18k rings tend to cost far more than 14k ones, and I'm not sure there's enough of a quality difference to justify that higher cost. Also, the bigger the main diamond, the higher the cost of the ring, which means having smaller diamonds will save you lots of money. I'm not saying you should be cheap or anything, but there are better ways to show your gf that you care than spending several months worth of income on her for one item.
Hope is the denial of reality
can't you get a RRoD?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
you sorta cancan't you get a RRoD?
but I like the rounded design, and the engraving (perfectly describes a marriage), on the One Ring
Congratulations on that one
Goddamn thats alot of money for a 10k ring. Nerds are just as bad as divas when it comes to the amount they'll spend on stuff.
Got hubby's 14k, a simple gold band but very elegant IMO, for $129. Mine was about $80 since it was a thinner band. Very lovely rings, simple and not overly ornate, which is how our marriage is.
Congrats on getting closer to commitment. And getting debt-free is super important!
I'll be damned if I'm signing my life away and not getting an awesome ring out of it. At least this one can help me disappear.
Looks like I'm screwed on this from any angle I approach it from. Her credit is crap, and won't start getting better for like another 3 years. Everything we've done thus far has been in my name. Which means my debt to income ratio is so out of sync it breaks computers. Brandy no longer has a W2 producing job, but we do claim her income to the IRS now, and her income obviously goes towards the bills, which is why we're able to afford the rent, double cars, etc.Congrats on getting closer to commitment. And getting debt-free is super important!
Can't put her name on a home loan because of the bad credit, marriage would obviously ding my credit, but that I'm not concerned about. By the time it makes it into the reports we can start turning her info around. My moms credit isn't bad, but the foreclosure is an instant no for most loan companies.
Last person I talked to told me they would have trouble getting me approved for more then $500 a month
My main hangup on getting married was my debt. I didn't feel right getting into something like that with old debt. I don't know why, it was just something I always said "I'm fixing this first."
The buying the house thing wasn't a huge concern for me. I like renting, but a family needs to be settled, and with my mom in the picture home owning would just be easier, even if its not the better financial decision.
Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 02-08-2011 at 03:16 AM.
No, that makes alot of sense. I think that before considering marriage or home ownership, financial situations should be assessed. Sounds like you're on the right path. And even though home ownership is a little more expensive than renting, it is so worth it in my opinion. I love being able to do what I want with my house, and not have neighbors above or below me like I did in an apartment. And we can fix stuff our own way, and not have to wait for management to get around to it. The hardest part of it was not being tempted to spend what the bank approved us for. We bought something that cost way less so we could afford to eat more than bread and water. LOL
BTW, the ring is pretty. Just not my thing. I'm married to a geek myself but he's more Star Trek than LOTR (though he likes that too) so luckily I avoided that battle.
If the ring came with Liv Tyler maybe I'd consider...
Nice one on the credit cards OG!
Last edited by Timbuk2; 02-08-2011 at 04:56 PM.
Smart thinking
Just a suggestion, but Brandy could try credit-repair before getting married too. Maybe fast track it by using one card in her name (if she has one) and paying it off diligently, and it won't take 3 years? Then she can get her name on the loan and title. That can go a long way toward "feeling" like financial partners on equal footing. And if something happens to one of you, rights of survivorship would kick in without needing a lawyer.
I recommend throwing the ring into Mount Doom before it destroys you OG.
Seriously though, gratz on taking the next step!
Mom found out today she has cancer. I don't know much yet, its apparently the most common version of mouth cancer. She doesn't drink, doesn't smoke. Requires surgery before the doc can see how bad it is. Anything from cutting it out and removing a few teeth to having to remove part of her jaw, to the usual fix it now or prepare for death doom and gloom.
I am not ready to lose my mom.
We're supposed to all go to Disney this week. 4 day vacation park hoping. No idea, and not concerned, about whats going to happen now with that.
Does look like this is going to bump up the idea of mom moving in. Especially if the cancer is advanced.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Sorry to hear that, OG.
That's really awful OG, all of this shouldn't be happening to one family.
Oral cancer does have a fairly high recovery rate if found early enough (though it's usually really hard to spot). But obviously every situation is different and the math doesn't really mean much when this is happening to someone you love.
Last edited by Dreadnaught; 04-26-2011 at 02:31 AM.
I'm so sorry OG!
Like Dread said tho, oral cancer is usually very treatable and has a high rate of successful treatments.
I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
Atari bullshit refugee!!
Sorry to hear that, OG.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Hope she recovers
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Mom: Cancer has not spread from where it was first discovered. This means the treatment will be limited to surgery, but she could end up losing a large part of her lower right jaw to make sure they "get it all." Surgery starts within a week, so we're all hoping they don't find any surprises while they are working. Thanks everyone for the well wishes
Me: My promotion position has finally been created and opened. I've already applied, just need to get the college to hand over the transcripts. No idea when the interviews are. There are a lot of people applying, but few of them have my seniority, and those that do are only doing it because the position they are in is getting RIFed away this year. Still, its going to be a tight fight, for the entire county they are only hiring 2 people. Pay raise isn't impressive, only a few extra thousand a year, but it would provide a nice cushion when we finally find a house.
And I really need to get on the ball about finding a god damn ring.
Shit, this sounds like a wordpress blog. thats lame.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
