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Thread: Supreme Court orders Cali to release tens of thousands of inmates

  1. #1

    Default Supreme Court orders Cali to release tens of thousands of inmates

    Supreme Court orders California to release tens of thousands of prison inmates

    The 5-4 decision represents one of the largest prison release orders in U.S. history. The court majority says overcrowding has caused 'suffering and death.' In a sharp dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia warns 'terrible things are sure to happen.'


    WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court ordered California on Monday to release tens of thousands of its prisoners to relieve overcrowding, saying that "needless suffering and death" had resulted from putting too many inmates into facilities that cannot hold them in decent conditions.

    It is one of the largest prison release orders in the nation's history, and it sharply split the high court.

    Justices upheld an order from a three-judge panel in California that called for releasing 38,000 to 46,000 prisoners. Since then, the state has transferred about 9,000 state inmates to county jails. As a result, the total prison population is now about 32,000 more than the capacity limit set by the panel.

    Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, speaking for the majority, said California's prisons had "fallen short of minimum constitutional requirements" because of overcrowding. As many as 200 prisoners may live in gymnasium, he said, and as many as 54 prisoners share a single toilet.

    Kennedy insisted that the state had no choice but to release more prisoners. The justices, however, agreed that California officials should be given more time to make the needed reductions.

    In dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia called the ruling "staggering" and "absurd."

    He said the high court had repeatedly overruled the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals for ordering the release of individual prisoners. Now, he said, the majority were ordering the release of "46,000 happy-go-lucky felons." He added that "terrible things are sure to happen as a consequence of this outrageous order." Justice Clarence Thomas agreed with him.

    In a separate dissent, Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. and Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. said the ruling conflicted with a federal law intended to limit the power of federal judges to order a release of prisoners.

    State officials and lawyers for inmates differ over just how many prisoners will have to be released. In recent figures, the state said it had about 142,000 inmates behind bars, and the judges calculated the prison population would need to be reduced to about 110,000 to comply with constitutional standards.

    Kennedy said the judges in California overseeing the prison-release order should "accord the state considerable latitude to find mechanisms and make plans" that are "consistent with the public safety."

    The American Civil Liberties Union said the court had "done the right thing" by addressing the "egregious and extreme overcrowding in California's prisons."

    David Fathi, director of the ACLU national prison project, said "reducing the number of people in prison not only would save the state taxpayers half a billion annually, it would lead to the implementation of truly rehabilitative programs that lower recidivism rates and create safer communities."

    Meanwhile, the court took no action on another California case in which a conservative group is challenging the state's policy of granting in-state tuition at its colleges and universities to students who are illegal immigrants and have graduated from its high schools.

    The justices said they would consider the appeal in a later private conference.
    I am stunned that this happened.

    I guess the question is, will the prison industry put up more new (and craptastic) facilities, or will legislation finally be forced to turn away from the insane War on Drugs?

    Spoiler:
    They'll build more prisons
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  2. #2
    photo caption: Inmates sit for dinner at the California State Prison in Lancaster. A federal overseer of the state's prison system has suggested freeing the sickest inmates as a way to cut costs. (Gary Friedman / Los Angeles Times / June 10, 2010)

    yeah, that's the ticket.

  3. #3
    Would it be unconstitutional to build an American Gulag Archipelago with low-cost housing, and prisoners used as forced labour in the middle of the desert, or something? You guys have vast tracts of land, after all. I guess that'd cut profits for the industry and the cities that profit from prisons, though. And the voting system fraud stuff would also be shot in the leg. Tsk.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I guess the question is, will the prison industry put up more new (and craptastic) facilities, or will legislation finally be forced to turn away from the insane War on Drugs?
    Would be nice if they'd at least legalize the Mary Jane.
    The amount of money we piss away on a substance more benign than alcohol is absurd.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I am stunned that this happened.
    Why are you stunned? There have been multiple rulings about this in California, it was just confirmed by the SCOTUS. Seems more or less like the system working: a problem is identified (overcrowding in prisons), and the justice system says things have to be fixed, albeit with some wiggle room.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Why are you stunned? There have been multiple rulings about this in California, it was just confirmed by the SCOTUS. Seems more or less like the system working: a problem is identified (overcrowding in prisons), and the justice system says things have to be fixed, albeit with some wiggle room.
    I am amazed that the current SCOTUS behaved in the reasonable manner you describe.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I am amazed that the current SCOTUS behaved in the reasonable manner you describe.
    Believe it or not, most of our justices (even those who are conservative) are fairly reasonable people. And while there certainly is a prison industry, they are hardly some all-consuming lobby that can control our entire justice system.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Believe it or not, most of our justices (even those who are conservative) are fairly reasonable people. And while there certainly is a prison industry, they are hardly some all-consuming lobby that can control our entire justice system.
    It seems ever so slightly unfair for you to assume this haughty "outsiders criticizing America!" stance when half your nation thinks outlawing faggotry reasonable. I understand that it's tedious to hear it time and again, and how easy it is to say one is looking from the outside in without the proper context, but these are sloppy arguments.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  9. #9
    Salaries down, unemployment up, spending down... other guesses? Creative ideas for making the best of this? These people should band together and start businesses instead of falling back into crime.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  10. #10
    I think it is an error to hold that members of the SCOTUS are on the same line of thinking as the general public. They are in theory people who seriously and actively think about legal regualtions, and their ramifications 24/7, what supports our "constitutational rights" and what doesn't etc... I wonder if you polled the SCOTUS what would be the outcome on gay marriage be.

    And even if it was a split, it doesn't mean they're all ignorant scum, it means they have failing in certain social departments, they are products of their social upbringing. I'm sure if we went back in time we will find equally intelligent and reasonable people alive back then as there are today, they'll have their genuises and their brilliant minds etc.. etc.. much like we have today and while they'll be great in many regards there will be some short-sightedness and short comings within them, but that's not to say they don't have good input in-general.
    Last edited by Lebanese Dragon; 05-24-2011 at 04:34 AM.

  11. #11
    Just something I haven't seen clarified in the sensational headlines: is California being told to release prisoners if they won't/can't increase capacity?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    It seems ever so slightly unfair for you to assume this haughty "outsiders criticizing America!" stance when half your nation thinks outlawing faggotry reasonable. I understand that it's tedious to hear it time and again, and how easy it is to say one is looking from the outside in without the proper context, but these are sloppy arguments.
    As far as I know, this isn't true. About 47% of the country feels that gay marriage should not be recognized, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find such numbers of people who think being gay (or having gay sex) should be illegal.

    I also wasn't actually criticizing you for being an outsider - rather, for having an unreasonably low opinion of our justice system (which opinion is shared by many Americans). You have made many comments about the prison industry, implying (as I understand it) that vested private interests that make money off of housing prisoners may be distorting our legal system, directly aided and abetted by our highest courts. You're not alone in this opinion, but I think it's wrong and a gross exaggeration.

    Yes, there are very serious problems in America's prisons. Yes, some of them are due to private interests. Yet by and large, our system does continue to work, and egregious systemic problems are challenged and addressed. It takes longer than many would like, and there are plenty of flaws, but I don't think the justice system itself is incredibly off base. Some of our laws may be problematic (inc. mandatory sentencing guidelines, criminalization of certain drug activities, etc.), but the courts more or less work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Just something I haven't seen clarified in the sensational headlines: is California being told to release prisoners if they won't/can't increase capacity?
    I'm not sure. IANAL, but I was assuming that the subtext about providing CA some time to fix stuff implied that they could conceivably increase capacity. I doubt there is time to construct sufficient additional facilities, but they might be able to reduce the headline number of convicts needing to be released.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    As far as I know, this isn't true. About 47% of the country feels that gay marriage should not be recognized, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find such numbers of people who think being gay (or having gay sex) should be illegal.
    Homosexuality – We believe that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society, contributes to the breakdown of the family unit, and leads to the spread of dangerous, communicable diseases. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be presented as an acceptable “alternative” lifestyle in our public education and policy, nor should “family” be redefined to include homosexual “couples.” We are opposed to any granting of special legal entitlements, refuse to recognize, or grant special privileges including, but not limited to: marriage between persons of the same sex (regardless of state of origin), custody of children by homosexuals, homosexual partner insurance or retirement benefits. We oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values.

    Texas Sodomy Statutes We oppose the legalization of sodomy. We demand that Congress exercise its authority granted by the U.S. Constitution to withhold jurisdiction from the federal courts from cases involving sodomy.

    Pornography – We urge our governmental bodies to enforce laws regarding all forms of pornography. We urge more stringent legislation to prohibit all pornography including virtual pornography and operation of sexually–oriented businesses. We oppose the sale of “Not Rated” (NR) movies and video games to minors.
    This is the position of the Republican Party in Texas. A quick google reveals similar attitudes in Montana. It simply is not intellectually honest to go "oh those red neck states!" in a two-party nation! Of course I am biased in that I have had homosexual experiences, but either way it seems grossly unjust to label sex acts between consenting adults illegal and 'tearing at the fabric of society' when one purports to represent 50 % of the voters in "the free world".

    I realize that Americans live in a media vacuum, but for goodness' sake, who ever lead you to believe the struggle for homo rights in America was already won?

    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    I also wasn't actually criticizing you for being an outsider - rather, for having an unreasonably low opinion of our justice system (which opinion is shared by many Americans). You have made many comments about the prison industry, implying (as I understand it) that vested private interests that make money off of housing prisoners may be distorting our legal system, directly aided and abetted by our highest courts. You're not alone in this opinion, but I think it's wrong and a gross exaggeration.

    Yes, there are very serious problems in America's prisons. Yes, some of them are due to private interests. Yet by and large, our system does continue to work, and egregious systemic problems are challenged and addressed. It takes longer than many would like, and there are plenty of flaws, but I don't think the justice system itself is incredibly off base. Some of our laws may be problematic (inc. mandatory sentencing guidelines, criminalization of certain drug activities, etc.), but the courts more or less work.
    I wring my hands, and ask yet again; why, why is it unreasonable? It is one-eyed and simplistic to draw parallels to Berija's system, but in many ways one has good reason to succumb to that temptation! The US system does not rehabilitate. It does not turn "cons" into productive citizens once they are out of the system. The brutalization and rape of convicted felons is a joke in polite US society! Rape! It's not that your justice system is off base, it is base.

    Of course not all of it is due to the for-profit model, people would laugh and clap at prison rape even if it was all federal dollars, but it certainly doesn't help that you can earn a profit jailing people and seeing how many of 'em can rape each other each day.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  14. #14
    I don't have time to get into this now (sorry, it deserves a response), but I want to emphasize one thing: the official position of a Republican party in a given state is not identical to the positions of the people who vote for the party. To determine if 'half' of our country thinks we should outlaw 'faggotry', you need detailed public opinion polling, not party platforms.

  15. #15
    This wasn't the opinion of the American occupiers in formerly Nazi Germany...
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Just something I haven't seen clarified in the sensational headlines: is California being told to release prisoners if they won't/can't increase capacity?
    Yes. With the caveat that I don't think the suggested/implied timetable is sufficient for that to work for everyone. It should also be understood that there is a difference between not being in prison and being free. There are other penal options.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  17. #17
    Well they should legalize drugs. And if they have to let prisoners go make sure its for victimless crimes like gambling, drug use and prostitution. Letting any violent criminals out earlier would be a travesty.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    This wasn't the opinion of the American occupiers in formerly Nazi Germany...
    No offense, Nessus, but I believe that qualifies as one of your hated 'one liners'. It's irrelevant.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    No offense, Nessus, but I believe that qualifies as one of your hated 'one liners'. It's irrelevant.
    Apropos that in a discussion about Pubbies we run into reality re-alignment

    Sure it's relevant. They made every German dig graves, whether or not they approved of each bit of Nazi policy. No one polled them. In a two-party state, if you vote for the pro-rape, anti-faggot party out of apathy or sheer disdain of faggots and love of rapists, it matters little, as in the end your vote furthers the cause of rape and hinders the cause of consensual gay sex. Whether you wish to assign blame there on the nature of the two-party state or voter stupidity seems to me far less relevant than the very real policy platforms of the GOP wanting to out-law homosexuality.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    I don't have time to get into this now (sorry, it deserves a response), but I want to emphasize one thing: the official position of a Republican party in a given state is not identical to the positions of the people who vote for the party. To determine if 'half' of our country thinks we should outlaw 'faggotry', you need detailed public opinion polling, not party platforms.
    Tennessee:
    Tennessee Senate OKs bill to ban teaching of homosexuality
    TENNESSEE: Governor Signs Bill Banning All Local LGBT Rights Laws
    Nissan, Comcast, FedEx, AT&T on verge of getting gay rights law pulled in Nashville

    Wisconsin:
    Walker seeks to stop defense of state's domestic partner registry

    Ohio:
    Ohio’s Radical Anti-Union Bill Also Has A Hidden Provision To Deny Equal Rights To Same-Sex Couples

    Montana:
    Bill to nullify Missoula's equality ordinance receives backing in House

    Iowa:
    Iowa House Bans All Gay Unions
    Iowa House Gets Bill Allowing Broad Discrimination Against Married Gays

    Utah:
    Utah GOP Rep Proposes Bills To Exclude Gay Families From All Public Programs

    Wyoming:
    House passes anti-gay marriage bill

    Last edited by EmperorNorton; 05-24-2011 at 06:00 AM.

  21. #21

  22. #22
    The more I think about this, the more it feels like the Supreme Court is playing chicken with a bankrupt state.

  23. #23
    Sure it's relevant. They made every German dig graves, whether or not they approved of each bit of Nazi policy. No one polled them.
    Just because they though that way, and acted that way, doesn't mean it's right or rational, and sometimes it can be more appropriate to generalize and group in that manner than others.

  24. #24

  25. #25
    I will bet real money the computer system used was some astronomically-priced dinosaur.

  26. #26
    I think it may be time for batman
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  27. #27
    Glad I plan to never set foot in California.

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