Reply B:Originally Posted by Aimless
Would his judgement be "better" if he'd solicited a prostitute, or been an "anonymous" actor in X-rated movies, or posed his naked penis in porn pictures? Are we prepared to tell everyone how to handle their work stress AND sexual tension? And are we prepared to interject ourselves into every public official's personal relations and judge them by that?
There's a lot of American male holier-than-thou going on here. In case no one noticed.
I'm not saying it's a big deal, but I think it's silly to pretend it's not worthy of some level of judgement. If it weren't worthy of any judgement, all husbands and wives would often casually mention to each other the people they had flirted with online while at work that day.
People judge him because what he did was beyond the norms of what many people do. Especially the cock shots.
Look, moral outrage aside, he clearly wasn't being particularly smart.
Are you a married man sending pictures of your crotch to strangers while knowing perfectly well how American politics work? Then chances are your judgement is a little off. I'm not saying it makes you a bad person. Maybe you have a healing crotch, I don't know. But your brain is not quite right and that's [probably] a fact.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I don't believe that this has anything to do with what husbands and wives do in their private lives. As a "Luddite and technophobe," I know damn well "cock shots" are all over the internet. They're even optional emoticons in MSN messenger.
You mean he'd have been smarter to figure out how to cyber flirt and send X-rated pics that couldn't be traced back to him? Or that this is something non-married men can do, and no one else? What about the women who were sexting and jpg-ing right along with him? Is their brain not quite right? Would those women be vindicated if they were "professionals", but persecuted if they were elected?
Why is this a uniquely American thing? Do you really think your politician's cock shots wouldn't be frowned upon? Or that anyone's cock shots aren't frowned upon when everyone in the room knows whose cock it is?
You tell us. You're the one who started the thread about something you claim to feel *correctly, IMO* is none of our business or interest.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Would they have eaten parsley if they'd been PNGing? I honestly have no idea what you're asking or getting at. Were those women putting anything important at significant risk?You mean he'd have been smarter to figure out how to cyber flirt and send X-rated pics that couldn't be traced back to him? Or that this is something non-married men can do, and no one else? What about the women who were sexting and jpg-ing right along with him? Is their brain not quite right? Would those women be vindicated if they were "professionals", but persecuted if they were elected?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Is this another one of your "define your terms before we can comment" replies? It's unfortunate a politician brought these very personal definitions and contructs into public discussion....but that's how the cookie crumbled. Now we all have an opportunity to define our own limits, what we think is strictly private and personal, and where public figures fit in those constructs.
Do we hold ourselves to lower standards than our elected officials? If we hold them to higher standards than ones we personally espouse....why?
IMO Weiner's lies in interviews on-camera were more condemning than his cyber sexting, jockey clad or naked penis pics. Even though I also know an abrupt shame will make most people want to lie or cover up. After the initial sensationalism, I sort of wanted him to stand at a podium and tell media---
"I did these things as a bachelor, a single man. The women were strangers in real life, but we developed an internet connection or "relationship". We were willing, consensual, adult parties. I never forced my cyber needs upon them or stalked these women. We enjoyed each other, and it was mutually enjoyable for what it was. It was far safer than any other option.. My fiance knew all this before we married. Our marriage is private, our private lives are private. I only regret being put in the spot light and decided to lie instead of telling the truth."
No, it's more along the lines of a "methinks she doth protest too much."
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Because I started a thread asking people to evaluate and discuss their own personal definitions and boundaries? Or because it includes the important tangent of how our public officials meet or miss that mark?
In that sense, what the hell is wrong with "protesting"? Should my retort be....why don't you appear to give a damn?
Does any non-fundy out there actually believe phone sex or photo sharing between single adults is wrong?
Hope is the denial of reality
Second time I'm asking you....are those things wrong once someone is married? (Or is that up to them to decide....)Does any non-fundy out there actually believe phone sex or photo sharing between single adults is wrong?
It's wrong unless there's an explicit agreement otherwise.
Hope is the denial of reality
So you define "wrong" as something couples define for themselves. I can agree with that.It's wrong unless there's an explicit agreement otherwise.
So why are people like Vitter still in office, when they violated laws?
With a name like that what was he thinking?
What do you think caused his deep-seated unhappiness and weirdness in the first place?
But I missed that he was a bachelor when he did these things. Still weird, but not as reckless perhaps.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
You probably missed it because it isn't true.
I'm not sure why this is even a story. I'm also not sure why a politician in that situation thinks lying about it will make it go away.
He started when he was a bachelor, but continued while he was engaged and continued after he was married by Bill Clinton last July.
Oh, and his wife is pregnant.
In that case I'm going back to my previous position. Foolish man
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
But seriously though, when the hell did "jpg" become a verb?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I was thinking about how many different women Weiner was treating like sex objects, and the original reason they contacted him (to discuss politics), and I can't help but think that the guy believes that the only purpose of women is to arouse him. In a way, he reminds me of DKS; women are not there to discuss important issues with, but rather as objects of seduction. If I'm a female voter in Weiner's district, I don't see how I can vote for the guy.
Hope is the denial of reality
Anthony Weiner's Ex: He Lied to Me
by Kirsten Powers
June 8, 2011 | 3:53pm
Anthony Weiner’s former girlfriend, Kirsten Powers, defended him on TV to millions of people after he insisted to her that he didn’t send lewd photos on Twitter. Now she takes him to task for his rampant misogyny—and says he must resign immediately.
Anthony Weiner lied to the country about his sexual misconduct online. He also lied to me.
I had been defending him, based on what he told me, but no more. Weiner must resign from Congress immediately.
This has not been my previous position during the scandal, but as I have recovered from the shock of seeing an old friend’s life unravel and have had time to get my mind around the extensive and sociopathic lying in which he engaged, there seems to be no other choice than for him to step aside and stop hurting his family, friends, and the Democratic Party. As more information trickles out about his online behavior with women, it has also become clear that he does not have the character to be in a position of leadership because of his misogynist view of women and predatory behavior.
Full disclosure: I briefly dated Anthony almost a decade ago after meeting him at a postcampaign party for the 2002 New York gubernatorial race, during which I had worked as Andrew Cuomo’s press secretary. The relationship didn’t last, but we stayed friends. While we were dating, he traveled with my family to Costa Rica for Christmas, and years later I spent Thanksgiving with his when I was stranded in New York City because of work. He was a strong support when my father died suddenly from a heart attack seven years ago. When a relationship I had been hopeful about ended in 2006, he cleared his calendar to spend a Saturday with me and reassure me about my decision. We only dated for three months, and he was for the most part a doting boyfriend and my family was very fond of him.
In the past few years, we didn’t see each other or communicate much, though when my husband’s parents were recently trapped in Egypt during the revolution, he helped to connect me to his wife, Huma, an aide to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, to facilitate their getting out.
In short, he was a friend whom I cared for very much, even if I thought he had issues he needed to deal with. It was because of this friendship that I believed him when he told me last week that he had done nothing wrong. In an email to me he wrote: “Why not to call the cops: Personal account, no federal case, we don't know yet what they got, I didn't send it, statements on sat, sun, monday, the girl said she doesn't know me, I don't know her. The people I follow are all people who ask. We've hired a law firm but not to protect me, to put together the team to figure out how we prevent and maybe civil or criminal next steps. We don't know where this photo came from. We have theories. Until we know for sure we open up legal hornets nest if we say.”
He knew I was going on the show Hannity, where I would use this false information to defend him in front of millions of people. I did, and I regret it. The previous day I had reluctantly done an interview with the New York Post at his request to talk about what kind of boyfriend he was. In that story I didn’t address the controversy but talked about my experiences with him. Nonetheless, my friends were furious when the real information came out and they realized he had allowed me to become involved in his sordid controversy. I just felt sorry for him and his wife.
In an interview with Greta Van Susteren the evening of Weiner’s tearful press conference, I told her I didn’t believe he needed to resign because his behavior was not related to his official capacity and that this was between him and his wife and, ultimately, the voters. Yes, he lied, I acknowledged, but everyone lies in sex scandals.
This is my general view of sex scandals. But there is lying and then there is what Weiner did. Due to nonstop meetings, I had not had time to watch his media blitz prior to my Greta interview and was slack-jawed when I saw clips of him the next day sneering and pointing fingers at other people for what he knew he had done. I am of the general view that politicians are not the most honest group of people, but, even using that very low standard, what I saw in those interviews was deeply disturbing. There is no way anyone can ever believe anything Weiner says again after that. In fact, I highly doubt that what he said in his press conference is even true.
Narcissism doesn’t begin to describe this kind of behavior. It seems there was nobody he didn’t lie to. The New York Times reported this morning that he told donors a week ago that the scandal was the result of a “vast right-wing conspiracy” and that “everything [would] be fine.” We also learned after his press conference that he coached a former porn star with whom he had communicated online on how to lie to the media.
But even if I could see past the lying and extreme narcissism that is noteworthy even by Washington standards, there is the issue of his attitude toward women. What has emerged is a picture of a predator trolling the Internet for women—some half his age—with which to engage in cybersex. We know only about the women who were responsive to his overtures. The odds are very high that he struck out with many, and other women were victim to his unsolicited sex talk. Women should be able to “friend” a married—or unmarried—congressman on Facebook or follow him on Twitter without fear of being the recipient of lewd talk or behavior. Just because a woman “likes” your video on Facebook doesn’t mean you can send her a picture of your penis. This is textbook sexual harassment. It may not be illegal, but it’s definitely unethical. He is in a position of influence, and many women—especially a 21-year-old—would be afraid to report a congressman doing that to them because he holds so much power. Also, he claims none of the women he contacted were underage, but how could he possibly know that?
By far the most disturbing information that we have been privy to—there is, no doubt, more out there that we don’t know—is the transcript of a nine-month "sexting" relationship Weiner had with a Las Vegas blackjack dealer. Radar Online posted the transcript, and it is rife with misogyny and distorted views about women. In referring to oral sex, Wiener tells her, “You will gag on me before you c** with me in you” and “[I’m] thinking about gagging your hot mouth with my c***.” This is not about sex. It’s about dominating and inflicting physical pain on a woman, a fantasy the hard-core porn industry makes billions of dollars on selling to men. You don’t want to gag a woman with your penis unless you have some serious issues with the way you see women.
As for his other views of women, he tells her, “I hear liberal girls are very, uh, accommodating of other[s],” playing on a bogus stereotype that politically liberal women are promiscuous. When he asks the woman, who is Jewish, “You give good h**d?” and she says yes, he exclaims: “Wow a Jewish girl who sucks c***! this thing is ready to do damage.”
A whisper campaign has started in New York that Weiner’s wife was partly to blame for what happened. “You know, she does travel a lot” is what one New York political operative told me they have heard from multiple reporters. So now we have the “blame the woman” campaign even though what Weiner did had zero to do with sexual satisfaction and everything to do with his own mental issues and attitude toward women. And, by the way, plenty of men have wives who travel and they don’t start preying on women on the Internet and sending pictures of their private parts.
Weiner is facing an ethics committee investigation, and it is possible that the committee could issue subpoenas for the women involved in the scandal. This means the scandal is going to continue to drag the Democratic Party down especially as new information comes out that he no doubt has not shared.
Despite my disappointment in his behavior and my concerns about his capacity to be in a leadership position, my heart still aches for him and his family. We are all flawed human beings, and this is not about meting out judgment. It’s about having some sort of standard for what the Democratic Party stands for—especially regarding treating women with dignity and respect—and Congressman Weiner has fallen far short of even the low standard to which we generally hold our elected officials. It’s time for him to go.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...he-lied-to-me/
Wow, she's all over the place. We are all flawed human beings, and this is not about meting out judgment....Yes, he lied, I acknowledged, but everyone lies in sex scandals....I am of the general view that politicians are not the most honest group of people....what Weiner did had zero to do with sexual satisfaction and everything to do with his own mental issues and attitude toward women.
That she felt compelled to quote the sexting details is almost like a voyeur complaining about a Peeping Tom. What does she suppose sexting and cybersex IS, anyway? Does she also have something against people 'talking dirty' and being crude in bed, or is she just bothered to read about it?
He lied. He lied to cover up cyber sex behavior that is probably more common than anyone wants to admit*. Is this about pornography....or fetishes....or what? This must have something to do with the New Age of digital social media, and no one knows what that means or how to react. Asking politicians to resign because they're narcissists, liars, cheaters, misogynists or dirty old men would probably clean out half of congress and Senate. <<Vitter paid a prostitute to put him in a diaper and have intercourse, but he's still in office. Maybe she should have taken a cell phone pic so the visual would outrage everyone?>>
*Even on-line Scrabble was filled with cyber-sexers and small groups who'd use webcams in another window, typing in private chat during games. Some of the public chat convos were X-rated that we'd have to censor or ban, or they'd take it to private game rooms. Scrabble, FFS.*
It appears that lying out loud, on-camera, or under oath is more objectionable than sex or jpgs.
Does the US get kudos for that consistency?
Why do you have to say "jpgs"?it gives me the creeps
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I like pngs myself
So sleek
So smooth
Mm-hmm
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
And he's outta here. The moping and gnashing of teeth at DU is hilarious.
It's not my fault when he says it himself, is it?
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
I can't help but feel bad and that this has gone too far. Anthony Weiner is a possibly-unemployable blowhard politician. This scandal meant he wouldn't be trusted with a job requiring actual managerial skills (EG mayor of NYC). But I think it should have been left up to his constituents to determine if he should actually lose his job over it.
Though he still controls a $4 million political campaign fund, so I doubt we'll see the last of him.
Exactly, especially if you look at what other people in Congress have done (Daily Show mentioned Rangel is still sitting..).
Though Rangel did have a good reasoning defending Weiner(at ~2.45)
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...ngover-part-ii
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote