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Thread: Another Patent Thread - Google vs. Everybody

  1. #1

    Default Another Patent Thread - Google vs. Everybody

    NEW YORK — Tech heavyweights Microsoft and Google are acting like a couple of feuding starlets in a public online spat over — wait for it — patents.

    It's not the first time Microsoft and Google have gone at each other's throats, nor is it likely the last. (Msnbc.com is a joint venture of Microsoft and NBCUniversal.)

    But with Twitter and blog posts, the dispute is playing out in public in a way that wasn't possible in 2005, when lawsuits over an employee Google hired from Microsoft revealed the bitter rivalry between the two.

    Now, Google is accusing Microsoft, Apple and others of launching a "hostile organized campaign" against its Android operating system, which runs smartphones that compete with iPhones, BlackBerrys and Windows-based mobiledevices.

    At issue: Thousands of patents
    At issue are thousands of patents from Novell Inc., a maker of computer-networking software, and Nortel Networks, a Canadian telecom gear maker that is bankrupt and is selling itself off in pieces. Last month, a consortium that includes Microsoft, Apple and Research In Motion Ltd. prevailed over Google with a $4.5 billion cash bid for the Nortel patents.

    Google lost out after a strange bidding process that included what published reports said was an offer for a billion times the mathematical constant "pi."

    "Their response seems to be to whine about the process," technology analyst Rob Enderle said.

    Enderle was referring to a scathing blog post by Google Chief Legal Officer David Drummond, who wrote on Wednesday that Microsoft was banding with others to acquire "bogus patents" to make sure Google can't get to them.

    "They want to make it harder for manufacturers to sell Android devices," Drummond wrote. "Instead of competing by building new features or devices, they are fighting through litigation."

    Not so fast, says Microsoft, which brought the feud to Twitter. There, Microsoft's communications chief, Frank Shaw, posted an image of an email from Google's general counsel, Kent Walker, declining to join Microsoft in the consortium to bid for the patents.

    The email was sent to Microsoft's own general counsel, Brad Smith, who also chimed in. Smith wrote to his 2,000-plus Twitter followers that "Google says we bought Novell patents to keep them from Google. Really? We asked them to bid jointly with us. They said no."

    Shaw offered a reason in another Twitter post: "Why? BECAUSE they wanted to buy something that they could use to assert against someone else."

    Enderle says it's no secret that Microsoft and Google don't like each other.

    Microsoft has banded with another Google rival, Facebook, to include data from the online social network in Microsoft's search engine, Bing. Google can't do that because Facebook erected barriers preventing Google's search engine from indexing all the data on its network.

    And earlier this year, Microsoft complained about Google to the European Commission in its first formal antitrust complaint against a rival. Microsoft accused Google of abusing its dominance of online search and advertising.

    Then there was the 2005 incident, in which, according to court documents, Microsoft's boisterous CEO, Steve Ballmer, threw a chair and vowed to "kill" Google in an obscenity-laced tirade over the online search leader's hiring of Kai-Fu Lee. Lee helped develop Microsoft's MSN Internet search technology, including desktop search software rivaling Google's. He left the company that July after Google offered him a $10 million compensation package. He has since left Google, too.

    Verbal tirades continue
    So far, the patent feud has lacked obscenities, at least in public.

    But the verbal tirade continued Thursday when Drummond updated his blog post to say that Microsoft is trying to divert attention from the real issue and push a "false 'gotcha!'" instead.

    "Microsoft's objective has been to keep from Google and Android device-makers any patents that might be used to defend against their attacks. A joint acquisition of the Novell patents that gave all parties a license would have eliminated any protection these patents could offer to Android against attacks from Microsoft and its bidding partners," he wrote.

    Enderle says Google needs to grow up, and part of that process is that "they've got to get through the whining stage."

    Google had the chance and refused to participate. Now, it is calling the process unfair, Enderle said, "which is something you can do as a little company but probably not when you yourself are a multinational."

    Google did not immediately respond to a message for comment. Microsoft's Shaw didn't have a comment beyond what he tweeted.
    Source

    I almost put this in the gene patent thread, but it doesn't really fit there. More tech patent fights. I think Google comes out looking pretty bad in this one; they were invited to share the patents with Microsoft, Apple, and others, and they decided they wanted to try to get them all for themselves instead. The consortium looks like it was created to prevent weaponization of the patents, and Google didn't like that idea. They failed to get sole control over it, and now they're whining loudly about it to try to turn it into a PR win.

    Mods can feel free to move this to GD if you think it doesn't belong in this forum!

  2. #2
    The patent system is broken when it comes to software, that much is obvious, but I agree that Google isn't in the best of light here. And they started this by complaining they were getting picked on! Microsoft even took to twitter with old emails about how Google turned down offers to share the patents.

    Click to view the full version

    I guess patents are only bogus when you don't own them
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  3. #3
    In general I agree that patent pools are a nice way to avoid stupid fights, but I'm afraid I don't know enough details about this case to see whether its presentation is accurate.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    The patent system is broken when it comes to software, that much is obvious,
    I agree with that. Software patents are granted too easily here, and I say that as someone who has had several of my own software thingies patented. The bar for what types of software creations are patentable is too low right now, and should be raised.

  5. #5
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  6. #6
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    The consortium looks like it was created to prevent weaponization of the patents, and Google didn't like that idea.
    Kinda proves a lot of the criticisms of the patent system, though, that a bunch of big tech companies need to band together, to spend billions of dollars for relatively old assets of other tech companies, just to prevent patent trolling. System fail.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  7. #7
    Google seems to be accusing microsoft of sabotaging google's--or, rather, android device manufacturers'--ability to counter microsoft's own fully developed trolling campaign.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  8. #8
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Wait, what? What trolling campaign is MS involved in?
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  9. #9
    Posting shock pictures on Harry Potter forums.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  10. #10
    Microsoft's gotcha is maybe weak from some points of view when you get into the technicalities.

    If you think about it, it’s obvious why we turned down Microsoft’s offer. Microsoft’s objective has been to keep from Google and Android device-makers any patents that might be used to defend against their attacks. A joint acquisition of the Novell patents that gave all parties a license would have eliminated any protection these patents could offer to Android against attacks from Microsoft and its bidding partners. Making sure that we would be unable to assert these patents to defend Android — and having us pay for the privilege — must have seemed like an ingenious strategy to them. We didn’t fall for it.

    http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/04/the...-never-pulled/
    If you think that doesn't quite make sense, it's because patents on software seem to be lousy with patents on really basic stuff and an archaic system of dealing with them.
    Last edited by Dreadnaught; 08-06-2011 at 11:48 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Wait, what? What trolling campaign is MS involved in?
    Microsoft is indirectly targetting google by trying to snag licensing fees from android device manufacturers, thus increasing the cost of using android as well as making a boatload of cash. They've settled with a few, notably HTC, and are suing some others, notably B&N and Motorola.

    http://www.blog.seattlepi.com/micros...oogle-android/

    http://www.techcrunch.com/2011/03/21...tented-pay-me/

    It's not exactly the first time MS has been sneaky. What was that business with the force feedback controllers? And making money off of Linux?
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  12. #12
    http://www.arstechnica.com/tech-poli...he-horizon.ars

    So there's a provocative question: why grant patents in fields that don't seem to need patents in order to drive innovation?
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  13. #13
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    According to the article, because the patent office gets paid to. Good olde government. Can't solve anything without creating a problem of equal or greater value, can it?

    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  14. #14
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Also, this seems particularly applicable here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Cuban
    If you want to see more jobs created – change patent laws

    Aug 6th 2011 8:24PM

    Sometimes it’s not the obvious things that create the biggest problems. In this case one of the hidden job killers in our economy today is the explosion of patent litigation.

    Every technology company I have is getting hit by patent lawsuits that are the biggest bunch of bullshit ever. Every week it seems like a new one comes up. Between having to pay our lawyers a lot of money to review each, to increasing insurance rates and settlement costs because we can’t afford to pay to fight the nonsense, it’s an enormous expense. So much so that money that would have gone to new hires to improve and sell the product has to be saved to pay to deal with this bullshit.

    I’m not talking about a new company that had an idea that someone beat us to. No sir. I’m talking about companies that have been doing business the same way for years that are getting hit by patent trolls . These aren’t operating companies that are trying to protect their business. These are companies that aggregate patents and raise capital for the sole purpose of suing companies and extorting money from them.

    It’s bad for my little companies. It’s horrific for bigger companies. It’s so bad that major tech companies are buying big collections of patents not because they want to own the intellectual property but rather because they want the ability to respond to patent lawsuits with a lawsuit of their own. It’s like playing a game of thermo nuclear war. If all sides have “nuclear patents” they can respond to patent litigation with equal force . Another words, if you have enough “nucleur patents” no one will sue you for patent infringement because you have enough power to respond in kind. Its crazy and costing this country jobs.

    Google just spent $900mm buying a patent collection. Other big companies are spending the same way. That is money that for many companies would have gone to job creation.

    We need to face the facts, patent law is killing job creation. If the current administration wants to improve job creation, change patent law and watch jobs among small technology companies develop instantly. I know I have at least 1 company that would hire instantly.
    Seems to have more of an impact when you can talk about actual jobs, not just the concept or vagaries of "innovation." So there we go, scapegoat patent trolls for the shitty economy, destroy patent trolls, create a few jobs... and I can't seem to find the downside to this plan, though I'm sure at least one will come out if the government ever implements it.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  15. #15
    So google's about to more or less buy motorola.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  16. #16
    It sounds like more than just more-or-less. As a big Nexus One fan, I would be interested to see what kinds of hardware would come out. Though it seems like this was as much about the patent wars as anything else.

    Today Verizon (one of our major cell carriers) basically came out in support of the acquisition as a way to establish some detente in the patent wars. I also saw one of our Senators earlier this week discuss the need for legislation, but I haven't read-up on what her specific views are.

  17. #17
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  18. #18
    IDK. I just read in Scientific American that Verizon patented (or is trying to) tactile screens using a special substrate to slightly raise or lower the individual screen pixels. Except they didn't specify actually what material they were going to use. So, yeah.
    Last edited by agamemnus; 08-31-2011 at 11:26 PM.

  19. #19
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Money. Duh.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

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