Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
Yes, well, clearly I'm talking about more than just EPA regulations on dirt blow-off here, aren't I? (And, more to the point, I think we can all agree that reasonable legislation is heavily outnumbered by the other type, at least in the US, and at least these days.)
That may be true, but the fact of the matter is that complexity is not in itself something bad - even if it means the head of the government can't fully grasp every element of its workings. A citizen interested in getting an answer to a question has much better methods of doing it than asking the President for an offhand answer. This is not a debate over whether the government has wasteful complexity, it is whether the story quoted earlier in this thread actually proves anything of the sort.

No, it's not. But the issue is that our government can't handle what's on its plate now (for whatever reasons we could probably argue about until the end of time), not anything about the inherent properties of complexity. Given that the current complexity and size/scope of federal regulations is clearly too much for the government to handle, it's foolish and counter-productive (and oppressive and tyrannical, etc.) to take on an accelerating amount of additional rules and regs is just foolish and harmful. This is not an argument against complexity, this is an argument against taking on new challenges and responsibilities when you can't even handle your current load... which is what the government is doing, with renewed vigor under our current leader.
What part of the quoted story indicates to you that the government can't handle its current level of complexity? For one, at least one individual seems to have sent the caller to the right place. For another, I don't expect the FDA to know about Medicare Part D, despite that both programs deal with prescription drugs - so if I'm wrongly directed to the FDA by a clueless public official, it's not an indictment of the system, but just of the official's knowledge.

Furthermore, I'd say that the level of complexity in government today is inherently bad (I'd even go so far as to say evil and tyrannical) when a citizen can't even figure out whom to call in order to get information on compliance with the law. We're not talking about needing an expert opinion on the effects of particulate pollution from farmland, the fundamental question being asked here is "how do I follow this particular law," and no one can seem to even figure out who would answer that question - not this will stop anyone from being prosecuted under that law either, might I add. That's just wrong, and evil, and an indicator of our system being very badly broken on a fundamental level.
Please, this wasn't a citizen who was stumped about who to call, this was a citizen following bad advice from an elected official in a single-minded manner. I'm betting that in five minutes I could have a decent idea of who to talk to about this.

Actually, I just did it in about 2 minutes. For example, looking for water runoff regulations wrt agriculture, I found an EPA page here (pdf warning) which has links to some reasonably helpful sounding websites and a toll free number for the 'National Agricultural Compliance Assistance Center', which sounds pretty damned promising. The website has some decent information about proper soil preparation techniques to minimize erosion and dust production. And I'm not a farmer and didn't have a clue about where to look until I opened up Google.

They were asking the wrong people, so they got nonsense answers. This is not an indictment of the system, just Obama's knowledge or memory of who make environmental regulations for agriculture. (I suspect that probably both the USDA and EPA do different environment-related issues with agriculture, but this definitely seems to be in the EPA's purview.)

edit: BTW, if you want to call the EPA's special line on how to deal with clean air act compliance (specifically asking about current regulations on particulate matter), by all means call (919-541-0800).

And again, to both you and Minxy, "which department does this query go to" is not a nitty-gritty detail that requires intimate understanding and expert knowledge. It's a very basic, very general query, and a very important one when you dig into its essence ("how do I not commit a crime" ), and that it couldn't and can't be adequately answered is a huge indictment - either of Obama, or the current system and/or Obama's aggressive expansion of this system, or whatever else. Personally, I find it incredibly disturbing how few people seem to take issue with it too - that anyone in our society could be arbitrarily charged with a crime they have knowledge of. Maybe you'll finally get the big deal when you're indicted for violation of the 1897 watershed protection act because you reoriented your downspouts... *<shrug>*
First of all, it kinda is a nitty gritty detail. He wasn't suggesting the questioner go to the DoD, but to one of the two likely organizations that make regulations that directly affect farmers (actually the Department of the Interior might also work). I agree Obama should have known better - and maybe he does if given a second to think about it - but it hardly proves our system is flawed.

Secondly, I find that ignorance is no excuse wrt breaking the law. Sorry.