US Representative Shot in Arizona + Fantasies/Falsehoods about Dreadnt and Guns

[GGT]

You intimated that I was both racist and sexist in our first exchange on the new forum, for nothing more then being quaint enough to believe in private property rights.

I recall no such exchange with you, Ghost. It's not generally my "style" to insinuate or intimate things like racism or sexism. I'd just as soon call someone on the carpet about that, and get it out in the open. The only poster I've called outrightly sexist was years ago, and it was Rand. Because of his views (at that time) toward birth control, and suggesting it's always, primarily, the woman's responsibility. However, he was a virgin back then. Virgins should never be entrusted with birth control policy, as far as I'm concerned.

[Dreadnaught]

That's not the photo I remember, when you posted from your Israeli firefighting philanthropic visit, showing a woman holding an assault rifle she kept in her bedroom, or you taking turns for the camera. Whatever.

Word. And the Pentagon was hit by a cruise missile, but all the tapes proving it were seized and destroyed by the CIA.

You seem to be describing what could be up to two different photos that don't exist.

[Enoch the Red]

I recall no such exchange with you, Ghost. It's not generally my "style" to insinuate or intimate things like racism or sexism. I'd just as soon call someone on the carpet about that, and get it out in the open. The only poster I've called outrightly sexist was years ago, and it was Rand. Because of his views (at that time) toward birth control, and suggesting it's always, primarily, the woman's responsibility. However, he was a virgin back then. Virgins should never be entrusted with birth control policy, as far as I'm concerned.

And what should amnesiacs be entrusted with?

[Aimless]

Word. And the Pentagon was hit by a cruise missile, but all the tapes proving it were seized and destroyed by the CIA.

You seem to be describing what could be up to two different photos that don't exist.

Or up to two photos that did exist.

[GGT]

And what should amnesiacs be entrusted with?

Gee, what are you doing, putting post-it-notes above your computer? Keeping lists and keeping track of certain posters?

How far back does that go...and can it capture the "evolution" of my opinions based on painful reality instead of hopeful (and unrealistic) ideology? You probably wouldn't call any optimistic person Chicken-Little-ing, of course.

But shall we revisit the events of the last five years (the Great Recession and huge popping bubbles), the previous decade (the beginnings of the Great Recession that encouraged bubble growth), or the decades before that (where efficiency and productivity started out-sourcing and off-shoring of American jobs)...and middle class income was stagnating until it eventually came to equal wages of 1968 in spending power?

[Enoch the Red]

Gee, what are you doing, putting post-it-notes above your computer? Keeping lists and keeping track of certain posters?

It certainly was a shock when a poster I typically had lengthy, involved, and civil conversations with on one forum turned around and assumed I was a racist misogynist in another for happening to believe in property. It certainly did stand out in my mind, yes. Especially from a renowned moderate.

But shall we revisit the events of the last five years (the Great Recession and huge popping bubbles), the previous decade (the beginnings of the Great Recession that encouraged bubble growth), or the decades before that (where efficiency and productivity started out-sourcing and off-shoring of American jobs)...and middle class income was stagnating until it eventually came to equal wages of 1968 in spending power?

No, no, you're right. You are definitely a middle of the road economic type. It's us extremists, you know, people who believe in private property, that are the problem. The government blundering into home ownership markets and guaranteeing toxic, sub-prime loans certainly weren't the problem. It's just that the government hasn't made the right blunders, that's the real problem.

[Dreadnaught]

Or up to two photos that did exist.

If the described photos of me existed, why would I have this incredulous reaction?

From the beginning I have said some people's memory was just incorrect. It's not like I'm denying something terrible. I'm just saying there is no boob-inflected photo of me with an assault rifle; that people's memories have gone hilariously fuzzy (no pun intended). Handgun becomes rifle. Man becomes busty woman.

[Flixy]

I'm just saying there is no boob-inflected photo of me with an assault rifle.

Aww

[Dreadnaught]

I know, now it makes me think there are more thrilling photos I could have taken.

[GGT]

It certainly was a shock when a poster I typically had lengthy, involved, and civil conversations with on one forum turned around and assumed I was a racist misogynist in another for happening to believe in property. It certainly did stand out in my mind, yes. Especially from a renowned moderate.

You forgot that terms like "property rights" were code words for racism.

No, no, you're right. You are definitely a middle of the road economic type. It's us extremists, you know, people who believe in private property, that are the problem. The government blundering into home ownership markets and guaranteeing toxic, sub-prime loans certainly weren't the problem. It's just that the government hasn't made the right blunders, that's the real problem.

Again, you're conflating things in your mind, and laying blame on me, erroneously. I've not supported Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, or the Community Reinvestment program. I've also not supported banks making huge money by doing this, then complaining that teh evil gummint told them to do so, and they had no choice.

[Enoch the Red]

You forgot that terms like "property rights" were code words for racism.

Ergo anyone who believes in property rights is probably, deep down, a racist.

Again, you're conflating things in your mind, and laying blame on me, erroneously. I've not supported Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, or the Community Reinvestment program. I've also not supported banks making huge money by doing this, then complaining that teh evil gummint told them to do so, and they had no choice.

No, you just think that the government, which has shown time and time again to be incapable of making good, non disastrous decisions when it comes to finances, markets, and legislation will suddenly do an about face and produce something game changing, that fixes everything, has no unintended consequences, and makes the world a better place.

I'll err on the side of history and give them the credit they've earned.

[GGT]

Ergo anyone who believes in property rights is probably, deep down, a racist.

No, not at all. But a new poster who uses terms like "state rights" or "property rights" should be vetted for possible racist beliefs. I don't think my questions were objectionable in any way. For all we knew, Enoch the Red was some fanatical fringe xenophobe, until proven otherwise.

Maybe you got a kick by posting under a new name, so we didn't know you were Ghost Enigma. I don't really know what your motivations were by making a new user-name, only you know that.

No, you just think that the government, which has shown time and time again to be incapable of making good, non disastrous decisions when it comes to finances, markets, and legislation will suddenly do an about face and produce something game changing, that fixes everything, has no unintended consequences, and makes the world a better place.

I'll err on the side of history and give them the credit they've earned.

The about face will come from regular people who learn about the failures of Fannie and Freddie. It's not a stretch to say that most people didn't really know what FHA or HUD was doing, let alone how many private loans were being bought by FM's. They also had no idea what the private sector was doing, or getting away with, in liar loans or predatory lending. Country Wide and Mozilla should have been prosecuted back in '08, but they weren't. Shame on us.

[LittleFuzzy]

You're right, I offered to send it in good faith and you said you wouldn't believe me even if I sent it.

You can post as much slander as you like Dread, it's not going to change the truth. I didn't bring this subject up again. You actually used your mod powers to make your slander an editorial "correction" when you altered the thread title, and I didn't pursue it because you were deadset on your whitewash. This got resurrected, you came after me, I didn't do anything beyond making a bland statement affirming myself in rebuttal to your attack and you're STILL lying about me and my actions. Tough shit for you, you can't actually erase our memories. Stop acting like such a petulant child.

[GGT]

The title is still a mess. I dislike Dread equating himself with what Representative Gabby Gifford endured.

[Nessus]

So you're socially left-wing, fiscally left-wing, and want the government to regulate more. And that makes you centrist? Seriously? You're to the left of 2/3 of the Democratic Party.

That's simply because the "center" is shifting ever-rightwards in the US; Reagan would be a Democrat teetering towards being left-leaning in today's climate FFS. You can just forget about Eisenhower et al, those guys would simply be nonviable for any sort of politics.

[Enoch the Red]

No, not at all. But a new poster who uses terms like "state rights" or "property rights" should be vetted for possible racist beliefs. I don't think my questions were objectionable in any way. For all we knew, Enoch the Red was some fanatical fringe xenophobe, until proven otherwise.

In your mind, (the mind of a level headed, independent minded moderate) a new poster who talks about people owning that which they have earned, in a thread which had drifted to inheritance tax is likely a racist?

This, to you, is the line of thought of the moderate middle, a silent majority in the country? You think if I went into 95% of the country and let it be known that I believe people are deserving of the fruits of their labor, that their immediate thought would be, "This guy clearly has the makings of a racist."

You're still going to stick with the moderate independent centrist line?

Just for the record, states rights weren't brought up at all in that conversation, I never said property rights, and the term property rights does not have the connotations and baggage that you seem to think it has.

Maybe you got a kick by posting under a new name, so we didn't know you were Ghost Enigma. I don't really know what your motivations were by making a new user-name, only you know that.

It was thrilling... for the thirty minutes or so before I made my big reveal. Glorious.

And glod only knows what sick and twisted motivations somebody might have for changing their nick, eh Gonna Go There?

[Wraith]

You actually used your mod powers to make your slander an editorial "correction" when you altered the thread title

You might not realize this because I don't think you make threads very often, but when you're the thread creator that's an everyone power, not just a mod power.

For whatever it's worth, I remember Dread posting a picture of his girlfriend with some type of rifle too.

[Aimless]

If the described photos of me existed, why would I have this incredulous reaction?

Oh come on >_<

From the beginning I have said some people's memory was just incorrect. It's not like I'm denying something terrible. I'm just saying there is no boob-inflected photo of me with an assault rifle; that people's memories have gone hilariously fuzzy (no pun intended). Handgun becomes rifle. Man becomes busty woman.

Like I said, it's a combination of two memories

[Flixy]

I know, now it makes me think there are more thrilling photos I could have taken.

Can't you just make one? Everybody will be happy!

[Dreadnaught]

You can post as much slander as you like Dread, it's not going to change the truth. I didn't bring this subject up again. You actually used your mod powers to make your slander an editorial "correction" when you altered the thread title, and I didn't pursue it because you were deadset on your whitewash. This got resurrected, you came after me, I didn't do anything beyond making a bland statement affirming myself in rebuttal to your attack and you're STILL lying about me and my actions. Tough shit for you, you can't actually erase our memories. Stop acting like such a petulant child.

You might not realize this because I don't think you make threads very often, but when you're the thread creator that's an everyone power, not just a mod power.

For whatever it's worth, I remember Dread posting a picture of his girlfriend with some type of rifle too.

Before I bang my head against the table at the apparent frailty of people's memories, I will just point out that Aimless has a point:

Like I said, it's a combination of two memories

There was a large-breasted woman that summer whose photo was posted, partially to show-off and partially to piss-off Sohaib.

It seems likely people are somehow getting that stuck in their head (although, once again, she wasn't holding a rifle and neither was I).

[CitizenCain]

Large breasted women and rifles, eh? Well, here's a classic we can all enjoy.

[Enoch the Red]

This is the last thread where I remember the topic being brought up at any length, so I apologize if there's another, more relevant or recent thread.



Demons? Really?

Where are the widespread calls for civility again?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Who's the crazy woman and what were we talking about again?

[RandBlade]

Civility.

[Veldan Rath]

She's a vocal, influential, corrupt (allegedly), Congresswoman.

[Flixy]

This is the last thread where I remember the topic being brought up at any length, so I apologize if there's another, more relevant or recent thread.



Demons? Really?

Where are the widespread calls for civility again?

I'll still call for civility, from all sides. Unfortunately, the only way that will happen is if voters actually stopped liking​ this kind of language.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Civility.

Well, that woman wasn't very.

Anyone who disagrees raise their hand.

[Ominous Gamer]

The woman knows her time is short, she was called out last year for her line about the Tea Party needing to go to hell.

[Veldan Rath]

What makes you think her time is short? I'm not positive any ethics investigation is really going get her booted.

[Loki]

Um, her racist statements go back to at least the '90s. Didn't stop her from getting reelected and being a key leader of the Black Congressional Caucus.