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Thread: Potential Life Supporting Planet Found

  1. #1

    Default Potential Life Supporting Planet Found

    Sadly, it's definitely not human colonizable.

    European astronomers have announced the discovery of more than 50 new planets beyond our solar system, including 16 that are just a notch above our own planet in mass. They say their record-breaking findings suggest that more than half of the stars like our sun possess planets, and that many of those worlds are less massive than Saturn.

    The pick of the litter is a planet that's already been in the spotlight: HD 85512 b, a world at least 3.6 times as massive as Earth that's located 36 light-years away in the constellation Vela. HD 85512 b is the only one of the 16 super-Earths on today's list that is located in its star system's habitable zone. That's the area around a star where scientists believe water could exist in liquid form, which would make a rocky planet potentially livable

    HD 85512 b's status came to light a couple of weeks ago in a paper submitted to the journal Astronomy and Astrophysics, but the team behind the discovery provided more details about that super-Earth and the dozens of other worlds in papers presented today at the Extreme Solar Systems II conference in Wyoming.

    The findings came from the team behind the High Accuracy Radial Velocity Planet Searcher, or HARPS, which is installed at the European Southern Observatory's 11.8-foot (3.6-meter) La Silla Observatory in Chile.

    "The detection of HD 85512 b is far from the limit of HARPS, and demonstrates the possibility of discovering other super-Earths in the habitable zones around stars similar to the sun," University of Geneva astronomer Michel Mayor said in today's news release from the ESO.

    Super-Earths, which range from Earth's mass to worlds 10 times more massive, are of particular interest to planet-hunters because it's thought that they could be even more conducive to the development of life than our own planet. When the search for extrasolar planets began more than 15 years ago, the telescopes used for the task could only detect giant planets like our own solar system's Jupiter. Since then, the techniques and tools used for the search have become much more sensitive.

    HARPS, for example, can detect the slight gravitational wobble caused by planets as small as Earth, if they have incredibly close-in orbits. HARPS' observations of 376 sunlike stars has led the team to conclude not only that more than half of such stars are surrounded by planets (maybe as many as 70 or 80 percent), but also that about 40 percent of sunlike stars have at least one planet less massive than Saturn.

    One of the team members, Lisa Kaltenegger of the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy and the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, told journalists today that the latest round of findings marked a new age in the search for habitable planets.

    "We are actually entering an incredibly interesting time in our history," she said.

    Keeping track of the habitables

    ESO's Markus Kissler-Patig said the discovery of HD 85512 b could be one of the first entries in "a good catalog of habitables" marked for further study. Kissler-Patig is the project scientist for the ESO's European Extremely Large Telescope, or E-ELT, which is slated to be built over the next decade at a cost of 1 billion euros ($1.4 billion).

    HD 85512 b "is in the zone where we can directly image it," Kissler-Patig said, and that means astronomers could theoretically analyze its atmosphere for the signatures of life, such as the presence of oxygen, methane and water vapor.

    The HARPS team members were able to figure out the minimum mass and orbital characteristics of HD 85512 b, but they couldn't determine its density, composition or the nature of its atmosphere — which means astronomers will have to wait for the completion of E-ELT or similar high-resolution observing instruments to confirm that the world is truly habitable.

    Francesco Pepe, a colleague of Mayor's at the University of Geneva, said that the HARPS team's discoveries include 10 worlds described in papers submitted to Astronomy and Astrophysics, including HD 85512 b, and 49 planets reported today at the Wyoming conference. Eight of the new planets were detected as part of the Swiss-led CORALIE search effort in Chile, he said. The ESO says this is the largest number of extrasolar planets reported at one time.

    Pepe said the findings pointed up a fresh mystery for planet-hunters to ponder: the existence of a "planet desert" between low-mass worlds and gas giants. Relatively few planets have been found at a level around 30 times the mass of Earth. "It may point towards different formation mechanisms" for planets like Earth and Neptune vs. planets like Jupiter and Saturn.

    HARPS isn't the only instrument engaged in the search for extrasolar planets: Two space telescopes, NASA's Kepler and the European Space Agency's Corot, are detecting planets by looking for the telltale dimming of their parent stars. Kepler and Corot can determine how big a planet is, but they can't tell how massive it is. In contrast, HARPS can determine the mass but not the size.

    Unfortunately, Kepler can't be used to confirm HARPS' discoveries, nor can HARPS confirm Kepler's. The good news is that the William Herschel Telescope in the Canary Islands is being outfitted for a HARPS North instrument that will begin operation next year and facilitate the follow-up of Kepler detections.

    Today's revelations bring the official tally of extrasolar planets to 645.

    Other findings from the Extreme Solar Systems II conference:
    • Over at the "Dynamics of Cats" blog, Steinn Sigurdsson quotes Kepler team members as saying they have identified 1,781 candidate planets, with up to 27 of those confirmed. Among the reported candidates are 123 potential worlds that are less than 1.25 times as wide as Earth, and 121 that are in the nominal habitable zones of their parent stars.

    • Astronomers say they have observed brightness changes on a failed star, also known as a brown dwarf, that may indicate a storm grander than any seen yet on a planet. The stormy brown dwarf is known as 2MASS 2139.

    "We found that our target's brightness changed by a whopping 30 per cent in just under eight hours," the University of Toronto's Jacqueline Radigan said in a news release. "The best explanation is that brighter and darker patches of its atmosphere are coming into our view as the brown dwarf spins on its axis."

    Radigan is the lead author of a paper being presented this week at the Extreme Solar Systems II conference.
    Source

    Almost put this in D&D, but despite my desire to see the sciencey threads make their way there, there's probably not too much to discuss here. Still interesting news. It's great to see that we keep finding smaller and smaller planets.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
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    Love hearing about all these new planets being discovered It sucks that we can't travel to any of them because I'd leave in an instant (one that is human friendly of course).

  3. #3
    You'd really leave planet earth in an instant, if being "human friendly" is your main concern, just like that?

    Oh, I dunno, that sounds like wishing to be a brave explorer of new or uncharted worlds, more than anything else. That kind of thing is always easier said than done, even easier for things we can't really do yet.


    edit #1

    Using imagination and theoretical scientific possibilities.....how many here would agree to leave known Earth Life and journey 20,000 leagues under the sea? (Yeah, yeah, it's an old teevee show, but this thread could just as well be Star Trek fantasies, for that matter.)

    People who say they'd gladly live in 'outer space', wearing full body suits and breathing masks, until they can enter their atmospheric Body Pod....for some reason don't also want to live 'under the sea', wearing full body suits and breathing masks, until they can enter their atmospheric Body Pod.

    Something about Space being emotionally defined, and outer space as "more free" than underwater space? I haven't been able to understand that yet, because in my mind they're both the same. Swimming in darkness, above or below earth proper, under atmospheric pressure, while wearing body suits and breathing masks, until the Body Pod is reached....well, the hypothetical feels the same to me. Both would feel like drowning, or suffocating while swimming, gasping for air, trying to find the Up or Down. Space or Sea, trying to find life in un-earthly environs.....in total darkness. I wouldn't want either.


    edit #2

    But if you gave me a choice, as a magical wish genie or something.....I'd probably choose darkness and swimming under the sea, instead of outer space. Finding new life right here is more appealing than whatever the hell is going on "out there". It's easier to imagine humans evolving (devolving ?) into beings with gills and flipper fins, water creatures respiring water's oxygen..... than morphing into celestial bodies that breathe, what exactly?

    Maybe I just don't have the imagination required to be a Space Dweller. Or I spent too much time as a child pretending to be a fish and swimming. I remember being about 8 years old and entering a one-breath swimming distance contest. People laughed at me. The older and bigger people thought they could just hold their breathe and swim as fast as they could. Sounds corny but I pretended to be a mermaid, using my flipper feet and abdominal dolphin kick, all underwater. The others were flailing with their arms and trying to beat the water, while I used a little girl's imagination to be part of the water. When my lungs felt like bursting, I pretended that tiny sips of water would give me oxygen. Mermaids could do that kind of thing, and I just kept swimming underwater, at some point the others just fell away, and I was just being a mermaid!

    anyway, I won the competition, just a skinny little girl against powerful surface swimmers, underwater mermaiding my way over 125 yards on a single breath, not knowing what the fuck I was doing, just being lost in the water and my mind. My swimming career began then, but it never transformed into a space career. I'd love to know how space engineers or astrophysicists began their careers. Something tells me it wasn't from swimming under water, but maybe something like sky diving or aerodynamics. And getting a thrill from building and piloting miniature planes, or propelling themselves into the sky and finding winged bird ways to soar in the air as long as possible. Pretending to be eagles, before landing safely on the ground. Those would be our best future astronauts, I suppose.
    Last edited by GGT; 09-13-2011 at 09:27 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    You'd really leave planet earth in an instant, if being "human friendly" is your main concern, just like that?

    Oh, I dunno, that sounds like wishing to be a brave explorer of new or uncharted worlds, more than anything else. That kind of thing is always easier said than done, even easier for things we can't really do yet.
    Very true! Easier said than done as the saying goes. I like the whole idea of discovering "new worlds" and I sometimes wonder what it must have felt like for English, Spanish and other European navigators, when they discovered new masses of land. Then again I've always had a fascination/interest with space/the universe.

    Using imagination and theoretical scientific possibilities.....how many here would agree to leave known Earth Life and journey 20,000 leagues under the sea? (Yeah, yeah, it's an old teevee show, but this thread could just as well be Star Trek fantasies, for that matter.)

    People who say they'd gladly live in 'outer space', wearing full body suits and breathing masks, until they can enter their atmospheric Body Pod....for some reason don't also want to live 'under the sea', wearing full body suits and breathing masks, until they can enter their atmospheric Body Pod.
    Well like I said, human friendly I wouldn't want to settle on some other planet, if it meant disrupting my usual routine of life: so wearing a full body suit/breathing mask and the likes would be an issue.

    When my lungs felt like bursting, I pretended that tiny sips of water would give me oxygen. Mermaids could do that kind of thing, and I just kept swimming underwater, at some point the others just fell away, and I was just being a mermaid!
    Hmm that doesn't sound good

  5. #5
    So how fast can we make unmanned probes go these days? At some point we should really put the resources behind building something that can withstand the journey. Though a multi-century probe expedition just to see what could be an empty giant rock makes me feel sad.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    36 light years away, so even at the 'rather optimistic' light year velocity, without any acceleration or deceleration, you won't get any information back within 72 years.

    Fastest flying spacecraft at the moment is flying at 1/18.000th of light speed, but that thing is old (just fast because it has been flying for a long time).

    According to wiki, with current technology alpha centauri could be reached in about 50 years (that's a bit over 4 lightyears), but it doesn't list a source and the article is written rather optimistically so I am not convinced.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  7. #7
    In a way, a manned mission would make more sense. But at any rate, the longest scientific projects I'm aware of have measured in decades, not centuries. But then again, this thing would be funded all at the start, so...

    Although I suppose the only feasible trip would be one way. Kind of a downer.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  8. #8
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Although I suppose the only feasible trip would be one way. Kind of a downer.
    Well, depending on who we send, downer. I can think of more than a few groups I'd happily spend trillions of dollars to get ~38 light years away from me. Erm, in the interests of advancing science, truly.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  9. #9
    There are cheaper and more effective ways of exterminating unwanted groups. You can even extract labour out of them before they perish!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  10. #10
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Granted, and I'm all for that, but there's a certain difficulty in garnering popular support. If we dispose of them this way, hopefully the cretins will be a few light years away before they figure it out, which neatly sidesteps the otherwise inevitable opposition to disposing of large groups of people. Free interstellar voyage!
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Granted, and I'm all for that, but there's a certain difficulty in garnering popular support.
    You might look at joining and influencing the Tea Party Revolution.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  12. #12
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Why'zat? I think think of much more amusing way to piss my time away, and it's not like I'm all that useful until the bullets start flying anyway.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  13. #13
    You're such a negative Nancy.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Beeb
    Nasa's Kepler telescope finds planet orbiting two suns

    A planet orbiting two suns - the first confirmed alien world of its kind - has been found by Nasa's Kepler telescope, the US space agency announced.



    It may resemble the planet Tatooine from the film Star Wars, but scientists say Luke Skywalker, or anyone at all, is unlikely to be living there.

    Named Kepler-16b, it is thought to be an uninhabitable cold gas giant, like Saturn.

    The newly detected body lies some 200 light years from Earth.

    Though there have been hints in the past that planets circling double stars might exist - "circumbinary planets", as they are known - scientists say this is the first confirmation.

    It means when the day ends on Kepler-16b, there is a double sunset, they say.

    Kepler-16b's two suns are smaller than ours - at 69% and 20% of the mass of our Sun - making the surface temperature an estimated -100 to -150F (-73 to -101C).

    The planet orbits its two suns every 229 days at a distance of 65m miles (104m km) - about the same distance out as Venus.

    The Kepler telescope, launched in 2009, is designed to scour our section of the Milky Way for Earth-like planets.

    "This is really a stunning measurement by Kepler," said Alan Boss of the Carnegie Institution for Science near Washington DC, a co-author of the study.

    "The real exciting thing is there's a planet sitting out there orbiting around these two stars."

    Kepler finds stars whose light is regularly dimmed when an orbiting planet passes between the star and the telescope.

    In this case, the team was also able to observe dimming when one star passed in front of the other.

    Nasa's scientists saw additional dips in the light in both stars at alternating but regular times, confirming the dual orbit of the planet.

    Data collected by the Kepler telescope allows for very precise measurements of the mass, radius and trajectories of all three bodies - the best ever estimates of a extra-solar planet.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
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    That's awesome Would make for some very nice photos! (From the planet that is)

  16. #16
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    It may resemble the planet Tatooine from the film Star Wars, but scientists say Luke Skywalker, or anyone at all, is unlikely to be living there.
    And what would a science article be without references to bad sci fi and college-rock?



    Spoiler:
    I've got her in my head
    At night when I go to bed
    And I know it sounds lame, but
    She's the girl of my dreams

    And of course I'd do anything for her
    I'd search the moons of Endor
    I'd even walk naked through
    The deserts of Tatooine

    Princess Leia, where are you tonight?
    And who's laying there by your side?
    Every night I fall asleep with you
    And I wake up alone

    And even though I'm not as cool as Han
    I still want to be your man
    You're exactly the kind of
    Alderranian that I need

    But when you were available, I was
    Drinking Colt 45's with Lando
    I was hanging out in the cantina
    On Mos Eisley

    Princess Leia, where are you tonight?
    And who's laying there by your side?
    Every night I fall asleep with you
    And I wake up alone

    Princess Leia [2x]

    Princess Leia, where are you tonight?
    And who's laying there by your side?
    Every night I fall asleep with you
    And I wake up alone
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

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