Anyone know who is going to process the black box? Or what side got to it first?
Anyone know who is going to process the black box? Or what side got to it first?
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Putin wanted to fly to Volgograd? Flying to Moscow doesn't get you there.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
It has already been denied already.Originally Posted by earthJoker
In a prime example of cynical opportunism Israel started ground operations in Gaza tonight.
Congratulations America
Oh please. The invasion has been in the works for days. As soon as hamas made it clear a cease fire is not in the offing, they began final preparations including the final reserve callups. This has nothing to do with Ukraine.
And it started exactly when the news was 100% focused on the developing story of a passenger airplane being shot down. I think the start has got everything to do with what happened in Ukraine. There is nothing the IDF likes more than international news organisations being distracted by a bigger story than Palestinean corpses.
What would have been leading news hours ago, now is merely an item on the ticker under the pictures from Ukraine.
Congratulations America
Of course they have. But you also have to use it. It has to be configured first.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
If you think being the #2 story for a day is going to save Israel from condemnation, you're dreaming.
I suspect the timing was driven by a complex series of factors, but likely this was not one of them. I suspect the order actually went out before the plane went down.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
Ah, so I was partly right: ground-air-missile-systems do have an IFF system. Just not the older ones.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Considering the amount of planning which has to go into a ground offensive, that's pretty much a given. After all, we're not talking about a high-response unit like SWAT but rather large units of the military.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Ahum. Untill when was there a cease fire again? Preparing an attack takes time I will admit, but once preparations are done one can appearantly both delay and time the beginning pretty much at wish.
I still have no doubt that the main reason why the operations started when they started was that nobody was looking. And basically still nobody is.
Congratulations America
Bullshit, it's on the front page. Second story but still front.
Maybe not in the Dutch media, but that's understandable.
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
CNN is covering both heavily lopsided as well. Same for BBC News.
Congratulations America
Israeli press report that the decision to start a ground offensive was taken in a security cabinet meeting on Tuesday after it became clear Hamas had no interest in a cease fire any time soon. After further troops were positioned on Wednesday, the Israelis decided to let Gaza residents stock up during the 'humanitarian' pause in bombings on Thursday morning; the logic being that well-stocked Gazans would feel less of a need to venture out during potential street battles in the coming fighting. The cabinet gave the final green light on Thursday; as soon as the humanitarian pause was over, heavy shelling began and ground units moved in a few hours later. I suspect the specific timing had a lot to do with positioning units for a night offensive, the start of the Israeli weekend on Thursday night (meaning less interference in people getting to work from increased rocket barrages), the readiness of newly activated reserve units, and intelligence. The final go-ahead may also have been linked to the third major attempted infiltration attempt that was carried out on Thursday morning - 13 Hamas fighters entered Israel from a tunnel with an eye towards a major attack (or kidnapping) against an area kibbutz; though it was repulsed by good sensors and rapid response forces, it's only a matter of time before one tunnel slips through the cordon. the Israeli government and military specifically mentioned the tunnel threat as a major motivation for the ground offensive, as they are largely immune to airstrikes (remember, a lot of the recent fighting was triggered by a massive explosion in a Hamas tunnel that hurt/killed a large number of their operatives; whether it was an airstrike, a booby trap, or a 'work accident' is unclear, but I suspect Hamas' growing desperation to achieve a 'quality' terror attack is driving this more than any other consideration).
The timeline makes perfect sense and has absolutely nothing to do with Ukraine or anything else. I suspect that infantry and commando units were already moving into position before the plane even crashed, and the official 'go' order had been given even before the humanitarian pause (and well before the plane was shot down). Your insistence this is some macabre ploy is paranoia and vaguely conspiratorial, when there's a logical chain of events that are divorced from some minor opportunistic press timing. I'm certain that civilian casualties in Gaza will be a major headline every day until a ceasefire is announced, even if occasionally they're only the second biggest story reported.
You could just as well suggest that the separatists in eastern Ukraine are heating things up now while the world is distracted by fighting in Gaza, or that Hamas started bombarding Israeli cities because they figured everyone was too focused on ISIS. Sometimes things just happen coincidentally. I'm sure you'll find kath or the like suggesting that it was the Mossad that shot down the airliner to stoke tensions in Ukraine and divert attention, but I expected more rational thinking from you.
Now that I'm done derailing, back to Ukraine: how much can we trust that transcript?
47 not identified (nationality uncertain)
154 Dutch
27 Australian
23 Malay
11 indonesian
6 British
4 German
4 Belgian
3 Phillippino
1 Canadian
Names of all victims are known, but not released.
Congratulations America
CNN just had pictures of the plane hurtling down to earth with a big fire on one of the wings. Looks like the fuselage was intact still. Can't imagine what the situation was like inside the cabin. Must have been grim.
Congratulations America
Cant find those pics on the US CNN yet. Have seen the video of debris falling through the smoke, along with the pictures of plane pieces being so far apart, so there is so suggestion that the plane started to break up before hitting the ground.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Trasncript:
Subtitled: 17.07.2014. Bezler group terrorists have shot down a passanger plane Boeing-777 of Malaysian Airlines using air missile system. At 16:40 Bezler has reported to his coordinator GRU colonel Geranin Vasiliy Mykolayovich.
Bezler: "Just downed a plane. "Miner" group. It has fallen behind Enakievo.
Geranin: "Pilots? Where are the pilots?"
Bezler: "Went to look for and photo the downed plane. It's smoking..."
Geranin: "How many minutes ago?"
Bezler: "Approximately 30 minutes ago"
Subtites: After examining the plane terrorists have concluded they've downed the civilian aircraft.
"Greek" (apparently a nickname): "Yes, major!"
"Major" (same here): "Allright. So the "chernuhinskie" have downed the plane. From Chernuhinskiy check point. Cosacs that are located at Chernuhino." "The plane has colapsed in the air, around the Petropavlovsk mine. We found the first "two hundred" (dead person). It's a civilian"
Greek: "What's going on there?"
Major: "In short, [shit], its 100% a civilian plane"
Greek: "[Fuck] are there a lot of people?"
Major: "Fucking shit. The parts have fallen right in the backyards."
Greek: "What kind of plane?"
Major: "I haven't figured out yet. I haven't been to the main part. I am only looking where the first bodies started to fall. There are the remainders of inside connections, seats, bodies."
Greek: "Understood. Any weaponry?"
Major: "Nothing at all. Civilian belongings, medical remainders, towels, toilet paper"
Greek: "Any documents?"
Major: "Yes. Of Indonesian student. From Thompson University"
terrorist: "About the plane, downed around Snizhne - Torez. It came out to be a passenger plane. It has collapsed near Grabovo, there is a sea of dead bodies, women and children. Cosacs are looking at it now. They are reporting on TV that it is a Ukrainian transport An-26, but they say it says Malaysian Airlines on it. What was it doing on Ukrainian territory?"
M. Kozicin: "Means they were transporting spies. Shouldn't fukn fly there, it's war now'
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
I've seen the end translated differently. Doesn't mean these fucknuts don't deserve to die a horrible horrible death, but I think it changes the tone for how they are trying to justify their actions to themselves
2:12: What was it doing in Ukrainian territory?
2:16: Means it was transporting spies, understood?
2:18: Got it
2:19: Shouldn't fucking fly there. There's a war going on.
2:21: Understood.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Well, its from the Ukrainian Security Service. So not a lot initially. But it mentions a student with an Indonesian passport attending Thompson. If that is later verified then we can call it genuine, given that it was released before any info on passengers was available.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
It is bizarrely specific given the Ukrainians didn't have access to the crash site, makes me think the recording is an authentic intercept.
Amongst the British casualties its just been announced were 2 Newcastle United fans traveling to see the team play in New Zealand.
It's from a pretty reliable agency.
Hope is the denial of reality
Just got a message on our intranet that one of my collegues was in MH17 with her family. Not really a big surprise given the number of people that work in this organisation.
Congratulations America
Deepest regrets, Hazir. Was it anyone you knew personally?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
No, she was working at a different location, same department though.
About the war crime thing; I think it's going to be quite hard, with the cover up about who actually fired the missile in combination that I am pretty certain that the chain of command can't be really held accountable to lack of an actual command to down a civilian airliner.
Something interesting was pointed out on TV earlier today; some bodies might give up shrapnel giving definite proof that the plane was hit by a missile (not that I don't already think that).
BTW, if I wouldn't know better I could have sworn a Dutch plane was shot out of the air.
Congratulations America
Gecondoleerd.
Just heard from my colleague his kids were in class with and friends with a family with four kids that was on the plane
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Sorry to hear that Hazir
Hazir, I'm very sorry to hear that. Hopefully their remains and effects can be brought home soon.
Netherlands is investigating the incident as a potential war crime. Doesn't it need to be intentional for it to be a war crime?
Firing rockets without due care and attention?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
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