we are half way there. When they were trying to pass SOPA, someone traced hundreds of bittorrent files (largely porn), to several offices held by members of congressOriginally Posted by CitizenCain
make the concept simple enough for executives and politicians and other mentally challenged folks to understand..
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
That doesn't mean shit, though. Hypocrisy is about the only field that politicians routinely excel in. OTOH, if you make them and their lobbyists understand that there's money to made in filesharing, they'll monetize it instead of trying to criminalize it.
It's like that jackass who got caught up in the federal felony he co-sponsored when those texts of him coming onto his underage male pages came to light. Catching him out in that felony didn't change shit as it regards that stupid law, nor does catching out the big record labels for making money off of piracy (Minx's link). The only thing that will change it is convincing them that there's more money to be had in selling the services they're trying to criminalize. And of course, the only reason they haven't figured this out already is that they're obviously seriously mentally challenged/severely brain damaged as it is, sigh.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
That's distinctly not what I'm talking about. Intimidation has nothing to do with those who are already pirating, or hardcore pirates. Hardcore pirates will always find a way. What I'm referring to are people on the margins who won't download because of the risk.
When I lived with my parents after uni, when it was on the news now and then about people getting fines/court summons for pirating my father said he didn't want me to download anything illegal as it was his IP address. I respected that. If RIAA dropped all lawsuits then people like that would no longer be put off.
Again there are many paid-for sites, iTunes is not the only one. I believe some do use file-sharing technologies - as does for instance Steam I believe? Yet you still see games on The Pirate Bay. That's not due to a lack of alternatives.If the RIAA was able to embrace file sharing as it is, I have no doubt they could monetize it in some fashion. Why risk piratebay and its sex ads and garbage files when you could get the torrents from a trusted source. Why would this be any different than how shows have embraced steaming from their own sites?
Two things:itunes isn't convenient for everyone. It requires plastic payments, and not all music fans have access to that. Especially underage fans. Why risk lunch money on a band/song/album you haven't heard and don't know its worth it? Thats the business model I'm talking about. The pay now, experience later idea. Pirates don't have that problem and, as its been shown before, pirates spend more on the industry than nonpirates do.
One: Payment has to happen somehow if you're paying. Online its generally either Paypal or Plastic. You can even pay by cash by buying pre-paid cards in many stores which you can then use online, which are great for giving to kids. What alternatives do you propose?
Two: The "pay now experience later model" just doesn't exist. Its a fiction. The music industry does provide free ways to listen to music. Besides TV stations and radio, online there is for the last few years sites like Youtube. If you want to listen to any song before buying it, is going to Youtube really that inconvenient? My favourite band still performing is Coldplay, got tickets to see them in June and Amanda got me their CD for Christmas (a very unusual thing for me nowadays a CD!) But if I wanted to listen to their songs before downloading then I easily could
That was uploaded to be listened to for free by (shock, horror) the music industry. So drop the claptrap. YouTube is a far better medium to try bands you've "never heard of before" than The Pirate Bay is, click from related link to related link and you never end up where you started and it starts immediately every time. The Pirate Bay simply doesn't do that, you choose in advance what you want to download and get it. The idea that finding new bands is easier on The Pirate Bay than on YouTube is not intellectually credible.
The only reason they are competing with free is because of illegal piracy, and while it is perceived online as cool to moan the truth is that the industry has done a heck of a lot in the last decade to revolutionise. Far more than other industries struggling to cope with online like the dead tree press. Making it easy to listen to songs before getting them for free, slashing prices, making it easy to download.Even at 69 cents, you are still competing with free. and if free is easier to get, free is going to win. This is when the better value argument comes into play, and bands have taken all kinds of different avenues to make purchasing a physical (and to a lower level a digital) copy worth more than stopping at a free download.
But it'll never be enough for some people.
The first four are all available while most sites try to provide the sixth, as for quality of songs that depends upon personal judgement. The UK music industry right now seems to be performing as well as it ever has done (taking home much of the grammies even). Maybe its not piracy/the industry but maybe its just what quality is out there. As it always has been.Wow I was thinking things like a cloud locker for music, permanent ownership of music, ability to stream to any device, unlimited access for a monthly fee, better songs, awesome matching technology like Pandora, better split between labels and artists, that sorta thing
A luddite? You really don't know me if you think I'm a luddite. It is entirely analogous, a permanent medium is regarded in every sense different to a temporal experience. That is not messed up, that's working as designed.
Why not use the countless means that the music industry provides to try before you buy?Right, and that's what I think the entertainment industry is really trying to fight off - the idea that they might have to operate like every other fucking industry and provide a product that's worth what they charge. If I'm unsatisfied with any physical product, I can return it for my money back. Imagine if big media had to play by those rules too... good for us, but very bad for lots of them who couldn't rely on shoving out crapware and awful movies or music and then hiding behind their "no refunds because of copying" crap they've been using as a crutch for decades.
We are talking about the same group of people. The people who use p2p services occasionally. The ones who don't know anyone who has been sued, don't understand the technology behind how they can be traced. The ones who don't watch the news for mentions of lawsuits. Hell, a lot of people don't even know what the RIAA is.
These people simply know of a service that gives them music for free. The don't understand the legal aspects, or if they are being tracked or breaking the law. I deal with these people in the library system all day long.
and to stick a wrench in your system, the RIAA has already announced that they would no longer be directly suing music fans. Yet somehow, the industry hasn't collapsed, piracy hasn't destroyed them. Who would have guessed.Now, if you weren't aware of that, why do you hold that people should be aware of the (no longer existent) threat of lawsuits?
No steam does not use p2p to distribute games. They do use the tech for other parts of the system however. Not that I see how the number of services out there makes a damn lick of sense. If they suck, they suck. People won't use them. and why do most services suck? because these industry bodies do it to themselves out of fear. Even ebooks suffer from this. The publisher Penguin doesn't allow borrowed kindle books to be wirelessly transferred for example. Thats not convenient.
Piracy will never go away. Its always been there, always will be. Thats the point. Instead of attacking the legal owners with DRM and hoops to jump through, the services need to be made easier to use for the one willing to spend money. This is why Steam is so popular. People seem willing to support a person/group when they can, and when they know they will get a good product. Look at Doublefine's kick starter, or any of the previous humble bundles. Hell, even Alan Wake made up its entire production expense in 48 hours.
Game piracy might as well be the evolution of game demos.
Not everything is on youtube, and not everyone is in favor of google's privacy policies. Not to mention that a large percentage of youtube vevo videos aren't available worldwide. and you do realize that vevo videos are stuffed with ads right? Something to the tune of $3000 per million views. So that video you linked has brought in almost a quarter of a million dollars. So payment is being made, but not directly from the consumer. No, that money comes in from physical products and concerts. Because, as I've mentioned before, pirates spend more than non pirates.Two things:
One: Payment has to happen somehow if you're paying. Online its generally either Paypal or Plastic. You can even pay by cash by buying pre-paid cards in many stores which you can then use online, which are great for giving to kids. What alternatives do you propose?
Two: The "pay now experience later model" just doesn't exist. Its a fiction. The music industry does provide free ways to listen to music. Besides TV stations and radio, online there is for the last few years sites like Youtube. If you want to listen to any song before buying it, is going to Youtube really that inconvenient? My favourite band still performing is Coldplay, got tickets to see them in June and Amanda got me their CD for Christmas (a very unusual thing for me nowadays a CD!) But if I wanted to listen to their songs before downloading then I easily could
That was uploaded to be listened to for free by (shock, horror) the music industry. So drop the claptrap. YouTube is a far better medium to try bands you've "never heard of before" than The Pirate Bay is, click from related link to related link and you never end up where you started and it starts immediately every time. The Pirate Bay simply doesn't do that, you choose in advance what you want to download and get it. The idea that finding new bands is easier on The Pirate Bay than on YouTube is not intellectually credible.
oh, torrents and magnet links do allow streaming.
the industry was dragged into the last decade kicking and screaming. and it took them forever to get here. We can thank apple for the lower prices, not that it didn't come with all kinds of DRM and hoops to jump through when it first came about. and piracy existed long before the internet. thanks to tape desks and vcrs, which the industry also tried to abort.The only reason they are competing with free is because of illegal piracy, and while it is perceived online as cool to moan the truth is that the industry has done a heck of a lot in the last decade to revolutionise. Far more than other industries struggling to cope with online like the dead tree press. Making it easy to listen to songs before getting them for free, slashing prices, making it easy to download.
thats the point you're missing. they usually suck.Why not use the countless means that the music industry provides to try before you buy?
---------------
Honestly, i think the biggest misunderstanding is that piracy is a 1:1 type of system. A shared song/movie/game doesn't mean a lost sale. Sometimes its someone looking into something they otherwise wouldn't have wasted money experiencing, and sometimes its because of financial reasons, and sometimes its because of distribution restrictions.
Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 02-26-2012 at 02:51 AM.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
One problem is that the quality of digital downloads is often a far cry from CD quality, while illegally I can download pretty much anything ever put on a CD, in CD quality. And there's issues of availability, DRM, it's really a lot more hassle to buy stuff than to pirate it. And honestly, if something net Netflix actually existed here, I'd be a subscriber, but we don't have it. I do have a spotify premium account, though.
By the way, you are forgetting music industry is also actually profiting from piracy. If your artist gets downloaded a lot, more people know the music than if people only buy it. People buy merchandise, tickets, etc., big artists are more of a whole product line these days than just music. Hell, without privacy, Justin Bieber would not have been discovered, and they certainly earned a lot on him. So aside from the fact that an illegal download does not equal a lost sale, it's also 'free' PR.
And even more importantly, people despise and do not trust the copyright organizations, and rightly so. If we legally pay for our music, and royalties are collected through those organizations, they are lucky to get anything. And I'm not overstating it. Over here, one artist wanted to get a few million he was owed back from the copyright organization, got on the phone with an executive because it simply took forever. He was smart enough to record it though, and he was explained that he would only get his money if said executive received 1/3 of it. Not to mention they also used music in their own promotional videos, without ever paying a single fee for it (the artist in question is suing now). So how comes an organization as inherently corrupt and fucked up as that gets to sue me, and change our legislation? If I perform with my band, the venue has to pay them a fee, even when we only play our own songs. If someone manages to explain to me how that can possibly be fair... I think I'd rather just pay for concert tickets and albums and t-shirts at venues, and downloading their shit for free online, than to send my money down that hole.
Which is by the way also the best way business adapt: use mp3s as promotion, the more people who hear it the better, even if they don't pay; cash in on shows, merchandise, and albums for real fans (make it a fancy design, special editions, etc., sells quite well).
Oh, and the movie industry... Cinemas have sold more tickets last year than ever before, while ticket prices are higher than ever before, and people often actually pay for watching on-demand videos, so they shouldn't really be complaining. Who knows, maybe cinema attendance is at its peak because people have watched more films because they could download them for free, found out what films they like, and go see those in cinema.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote