Yes. Strange that a doctor was shot in both his legs by a sniper. You realize that there are also the non-lethal shootings? Also shooting children. Bravo for that. But I'm sure that was an accident, right?Originally Posted by wiggin
I also fail to see why snipers are needed at all. This fuckery only shows that Israel is well on its way to become the very thing it was founded against. Both sides are acting absolutely despicable and are part of the problem. BOTH.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
This keeps being brought out triumphantly by IDF apologists as some sort of gotcha, but, as gotchas go, it's not a very good one.
1. Contrary to popular opinion among right-wing authoritarians and their apologists, being a "member" of Hamas doesn't automatically deprive a person of all his rights under international law, nor does it release soldiers from all their obligations under international law. See this for one analysis among many of the IDF's hilariously post-modern approach to interpreting laws, and why that approach is questionable at best: https://www.justsecurity.org/56346/c...e-gaza-border/
2. Even if we were to accept the figure as accurate--and we shouldn't, because current figures put casualties at over a hundred--and also accept that that somehow legitimized the killings, the "legitimate" killings must be weighed against the number of injured if you want to make a point about restraint and accuracy. If you kill 50 people but critically injure 300 and injure thousands of others slightly less, you have no plausible claim on accuracy. There's a pervasive myth circulating among apologists about the IDF's character and restraint, but this myth rarely holds up to scrutiny, and the IDF's questionable intent is also exemplified by its unwillingness to adhere to not only international law but also domestic law eg. when it prevents injured from getting necessary care to which they're entitled (see eg. cases of fatalities and amputations that could well have been avoided had the injured been allowed to receive care outside Gaza).
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
In theory it could be, snipers are only human after all. But when you start shooting doctors, paramedics and reporters it's possible you're not the kind of human who should get the opportunity to sit around shooting people with no accountability.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
It's the same as the police here. They're not given orders to do bad things. But some of them are just bad people and will do bad things. Then they're not punished, which pushes even moderately bad people into a bad direction. So orders might not have been given, but they might as well have been given the impunity with which soldiers can do these kind of things.
Hope is the denial of reality
Dread, you're an absolutely despicable human being and I already regret that I read your post.
You asshole.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
So... these members of Hamas that Israel shot.
Were they doing any particularly Hamasy things at the time they were shot, or were they just people who were members of Hamas who happened to be protesting, and the Israel Military is retroactively using that to justify shooting them, US police style?
Because Hamas isn't just a terrorist and/or paramilitary organisation, it also runs the Gaza strip and has a whole social services branch etc.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Even if they weren't clearly and directly Hamassing it up right next to the border, the Israeli govt. is essentially arguing that there is no such requirement in this situation. See the article I linked to for an overview of their reasoning.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Hamas is short for young male (US does the same in Afghanistan). It explains the shooting of journalists and doctors.
Hope is the denial of reality
Well, they were probably walking in a threatening way.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...sson-1.6132770
Honestly, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Heh, you really are the king of over-the-top responses. The equivalent would be me going to Friends of the Israel Defense Forces and donating in honor of Khendraja'aro. Which I could totally do! But I'm cheap.
Let's put aside the fact that Hamas lies. Imagine a country on your border with whom you share no language and an ugly history announces they will send 200,000 civilians to your border to cross it and occupy your towns because they aren't happy with borders set in 1945. And they actually do it. Do you really have a realistic solution in which no one will get hurt or possibly killed?
The position of Gazans is unenviable by any measure. It doesn't mean they are angels.
Israel's vague "enemy of my enemyism" is sure opening up "partnerships" that wouldn't have been made a generation ago
Last edited by Dreadnaught; 05-31-2018 at 12:46 PM.
Jesus fucking Christ. This is gross:
https://m.facebook.com/mitvchannel/p...03310709934311
Yes, this is a post about Israeli assistance for internment camps filled with internally displaced members of persecuted minorities. "returnees" is in reference to the hundreds of thousands of rohingya who fled or were driven out of Myanmar in during the extraordinarily brutal genocidal campaign of ethnic cleansing that resumed last year. Israel's deals with the Tatmadaw (one of the world's most reprehensible military forces) was bad enough. This... ugh.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Netanyahu is really doing his best to turn the Democrats against Israel.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...orld-order/amp
Hope is the denial of reality
The New Yorker is doing its best to turn the Democrats against Israel.
Loki, did you read the same article I did? Because essentially nothing in that piece, other than Bibi's 2015 speech to Congress, supports your statement. I don't deny that the bipartisan consensus in the US regarding Israel has been eroding for some time, and I personally agree that the current administration in Israel is part of the problem, but your link is to a rambling, vaguely conspiratorial and poorly written article saying, more or less, that the Middle East is complicated and that Trump doesn't know what he's doing.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
Other than relying on an incoming president to check the one in office and sharing inappropriate information with the former? And doing so on the basis of paranoia?
Hope is the denial of reality
Thank you for that valuable contribution Kellyanne Conway.
Hope is the denial of reality
Hah. Going back to the 2012 Democratic convention it's become clear that the Democratic delegate muscle was moving away from certain positions considered by many to be pro-Israel. Trump has little to do with it, except in that he will not bother much with the Palestinian question.
The substance of the New Yorker article is thin, trying to imply that Trump is doing things like pulling out of the Iran deal because of Israel. I'm confident Trump's view on the Iran deal didn't much consider Israel until his son-in-law mentioned it. Trump generally doesn't seem to make those kinds of connections on his own.
Source: Apparently I'm Kellyanne Conway.
You're blaming the reaction to Israel's hyper-partisan policies, rather than blaming the policies themselves.
Hope is the denial of reality
I would call many of Israel's policies ill-informed. But I don't think their US relations are deliberately hyper-partisan as much as the US political consensus is splitting on this issue (as on many others).
Right, like going to speak in front of Congress to spite Obama. Seriously, Dread.
Hope is the denial of reality
Nothing to see here.
Twitter Link
Hope is the denial of reality
You have to understand that this presents a unique challenge in Israel. In the US the guards could've just wrapped the door handles in bacon.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
http://www.newsweek.com/iran-general...clouds-1005190
Every now and then it's good to remember the utter ridiculousness of antisemitism.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
They're being kept in cloud banks.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I wonder who'd believe such a madman. Oh.
Twitter Link
Hope is the denial of reality
Loki, you might find this article interesting. The basic dynamic described here (about yet another bill that on its surface offends democratic sensibilities) is pretty common to a lot of your critique about encroachment of illiberal democracy under the current government. I think it's a terrible way to run a government, it does a real disservice to the country that has some very real and pressing issues to address, but it is mostly smoke and mirrors that satisfies everyone's political needs without actually doing anything. It's also why my biggest issues with Netanyahu have less to do with specific laws that have been proposed (few of which have actually passed) and a lot more to do with some of the corruption probes against him, especially Case 2000.
Anyways, I think it's worth a read; it helps describe some of the detail that rarely gets reported, and it's in English.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-br...-idf-soldiers/
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
What a great article of the nonsense that goes into backbencher politicking
Twitter Link
Wig, your definition of democracy is too short-term results oriented and ignores process and norms. It's undeniable that views that were considered unacceptable in the past are becoming widespread. Support for the rule of law is plummeting, with tribal ties determining whether people think a criminal should be charged with a crime. The constant attempts to excuse the most heinous actions, including by trying to pass bills, will eventually have an impact, even if those attempts fail today. Politics itself is becoming less a function of agreement on issues and more about being on the right side of the culture war. That's something Netanyahu has used to great effect given the surge in his standing in the polls.
There's also the fact that Israel has abandoned its historic role of condemning anti-Semitism and provides legitimacy to anti-Semitic rhetoric and policies in Europe, as long as they come from populist wannabe autocrats (like Orban).
Lastly, I'm reluctant to take seriously anyone who says that B'Tselem is far left and repeats the canard that people criticize Israel's behavior only because they haven't lived under the same conditions, a strange claim to make when directed at Israeli human rights groups. The whole war against NGOs, especially trying to paint them as foreign entities, is basically a copy of Russia's policy.
Hope is the denial of reality
You're having the Trump discussion from 2016/2017 again.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
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