Buddy, you are the side that loses any trade war so I suggest you start toning things down seriously. Your ukip rhetorics may win you friends in a pub, but we don't owe you shit and are the last people you want to piss off.Originally Posted by RandBlade
You may have this funny idea that I am some euro extremist brit-hater, but what I say is pretty much main stream; unless you start playing nice you can forget about any good deal.
Congratulations America
You keep repeating that point about BMW like it's gospel. But how is that different from saying the UK will accept any deal from the EU because "I highly doubt the UK is going to want to prevent all of their industries exporting to the EU"? You seem to have a very weird expectation of the EU caving to the UK during negotiations. Don't forget access to your largest export market is also at stake. Plus it's not like euroscepticism is on the rise everywhere and a good deal for the UK is actually against the EUs own interest - what better way to show a country is better off in the EU than having a country that leaves crag and burn?
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
"We want free trade" is "trade war" "UKIP rhetorics"?
The EU exports far more to the UK than we import. Every major EU economy has a trade surplus with the UK and we are your largest export market too. However the UK isn't the one suggesting we wouldn't accept a free trade deal, that's the difference. If you were to say that the UK would want Nissan (in Sunderland) to still be able to export to the EU then I'd find that uncontroversial and agree. Hazir seems to think there's a doubt as to whether Germany wants BMW to be able to export to the UK - I don't see any doubt at all.
Yes the UK should expect a free trade deal and we want to agree one. It would be mutually beneficial for everyone if we agree one and that way all the political extras t he EU has can be for those nations that want the politics rather than dragging us along as reluctant and recalcitrant naysayers.
A scorched earth policy may be in the interests of Eurofanatics who want to force the whole world (or continent) into a single superstate whether they want to be in it or not. It is not in the interests of the EU's population or member states or economy. The EU's economy is struggling and in this the UK and EU's interests are entirely aligned, a trade deal is mutually beneficial. So it depends whether you prefer "the project" or the economy and what is good for your citizens - and if Germany sacrifices a million jobs and an €80 billion a year trade surplus in revenge for Romania no longer being able to get free movement for their unemployed to the UK then that will only feed euroscepticism not quell it.
The 'BMW wants to sell cars tripe' is right out of the set of lies of the same people who think you have the upper hand in the negotiations. For a shifty country the size of the UK that is an invitation to a trade war.
What you lot should understand is that under the nice talk you have no friends left. Everybody is royally pissed off by the way you are rocking the boat. And everybody is far from limited to Europe. Your idiotic dreams of grandeur are costing everyone loads of money and causes everyone a headache in the attempt to limit the damage. That is the reality of today and the only way you are not going to get full pay back is by playing awfully nice over the next few years. Because otherwise there may come a day you won't have the money to buy even a Dacia.
Congratulations America
It's not an invitation to a trade war its a statement of the bleeding obvious. You not me claimed that there could be a situation whereby "cars can't be built or delivered". That's simply moronic.
Interesting to see one of the EU's lead negotiators (quoted only days ago approving by Aimless) is softening his language to one of compromise:
Twitter Link
As for your crocodile tears about "rocking the boat", maybe you should have taken Cameron's reform proposals more seriously if you wanted to keep us as members?
I'm not sure how you managed to read that tweet as indicating compromise on any of the core issues such as freedom of movement of persons.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Freedom of movement of persons is moot as we won't be members. Free trade on the other hand between good friends and neighbours is still a possibility.
I think your brain went on the fritz with this sentence and is pretty exemplary for the logic of your thought process.
And "Free trade" with your neighbours - I don't know what you're smoking but your neighbours are all in the EU. And "free trade" with the EU comes with freedom of movement or not at all. Switzerland and Norway will make sure of that.
Last edited by Khendraja'aro; 10-04-2016 at 03:54 PM.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Lol I clearly meant the EU exports more than we export. Dangers of posting on a phone.
Switzerland will be made up if we can agree a deal without free movement and would leap on that deal for themselves too. So they aren't the risk of blocking it.
I expect a classic case of fudge in the end. Free movement to continue but with some strings attached. Eg free movement of labour so that anyone with a job offer (or who is self sufficient) can come over but the unemployed can not.
The referendum was won off the backs of people who wanted an end to free movement. No one but a small part of conservative elite gives a shit about free trade. You may be in a position to ignore this fact, but the Tory leadership isn't. They aren't going to do any deal that puts access to the single market before control over immigration.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Except that you will not get that. Switzerland did not get it and you will not get it as well. You seem to have missed the part where they already tried to do something like that unilaterally, and they are now in quite some troubles because of it.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
They are considerably better off than nations in the EU, growing far faster than the EU, officially withdrawn their EU membership request as only "a few lunatics" still want to be in the EU.
If that's "some troubles", sign me up
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-14466222.html
Given that their 'doing better' is entirely dependent on their agreements with the EU, which include FoM as a rock hard requirement your wishfull thinking falls flat on its face.They are considerably better off than nations in the EU, growing far faster than the EU, officially withdrawn their EU membership request as only "a few lunatics" still want to be in the EU.
If that's "some troubles", sign me up
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-14466222.html
I know you Brexiteers are living in some sort of lala-land where things happen that support your cause, but the reality is that 2 years after their referendum on the restriction of FoM, the Swiss have never been able to talk with the EU about putting any limits on it, for the simple reason that the EU said that it was a non-starter. The only thing that has been repeated over and over again is 'FoM is non-negotiable', so in the end the Swiss gave up and conjured up some scheme in which they don't put any quota on FoM, and have a emergency system which they will not engage if the EU doesn't allow them to engage it. So that means in simple terms; full freedom of movement for EU citizens to Switzerland stays in place. And what's more; it will be extented to the new EU members. The only people who will not be free to move to Switzerland in the near future are you Brits, as you fall out of the EU.
As for 'cars' that was another example of how little you know about the real world; car production consists of a flow of parts that have to be at the place of production at exactly the right time, not half a day late or early. Once you have a potential border check of your parts, your cars won't get built on time so you won't have a car to sell. That is the problem that any 'British' car producer will have to cope with. And those who can deal with that problem by moving the production of new cars out of the UK will do so. Regardless of tariffs and compensation. The same is true for any other sector using parts from the EU for their production for the EU markets. As car built in Germany for the UK market is just a finished product that can bear a day or so in a customs compound without causing serious damage to anyone.
Congratulations America
Incidentally I find hilarious the idea that Europe will turn its nose up at free trade with the UK without free movement (like USA and Canada have free trade without free movement) because to do so would risk other nations wanting the same arrangements.
If other nations would rather have the same arrangements then so be it. If your union is so great people should want to be in it not feel compelled to be so.
I think anyone who is placing their chips on Britain failing outside the EU is onto a losing hand. The UK will make Brexit work come hell or high water. So what then? Either bind people into supporting your project by making it something worthy of support or let them go cheerfully and leave behind just those who want to be in it. The UK is not going to be a supplicant and it is not going to be a failure so start preparing to work with that.
What a ridiculous argument. It's like saying that if American states were allowed to leave the Union while retaining all the benefits, it would be surprising to see some of them take the US up on the offer.
Hope is the denial of reality
Let me just point out the current exchange rates for the pound : $1.23 €1,10.
Congratulations America
If you think that free trade is "all the benefits" that the Union offers then yes it might be worth letting the others go free.
Now if you can point out why I should give a flying fuck?
Since when did Switzerland ever want to be a full member? Are you off your meds again?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Since 1992: http://www.politico.eu/article/switz...o-join-the-eu/
Well, since they never actually considered becoming a full member, I'm not seeing where you're getting your hard-on from.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
They did consider becoming a full member (as they had applied officially to do) until the public thought better of it. Not sure where you think I have a hard-on, just pointing out that for such an apparent basket case that are allegedly in "quite some troubles" (your words) they don't seem to be begging to join your decrepit union.
Well, you can ask the academics of Switzerland's universities. Because they are definitely facing trouble due to the latest stupidity of Switzerland trying to restrict freedom of movement. Because the EU stated to them quite clearly: FoM or we pull all the money you're currently getting from us for research. Which makes scientists in said research not happy because they need to apply for grants regularly. Which in turn causes them to look in other countries.
And, please, if nothing in a political matter is happening for fucking 24 years then there usually won't be anything to happen for another eon in the same political matter. You're massively overstating the consequences here, my dear brain-addled friend.
And decreptit is only the way you guys carry on, acting as if you still mattered.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Considering that approximately for every £1 we get from the EU in grants we pay the EU £2 I would be quite content to write off EU university funding and fund grants directly ourselves cutting out the middle man.
because unlike what you think your currency collapsing economically is not good.
Congratulations America
See here the typical Brexiteer logic. Always looking for a penny to count while disregarding the full picture.
Congratulations America
There's been a 14% fall in sterling from our pre-referendum equilibrium to the lows now. That's not great but its much smaller than many other variances in recent years. At the end of 2008 sterling lost 30% in the same period.
Considering our Bank of England has taken the bonkers decision to cut interest rates that were already at 0.25% at a time the Fed is looking to raise its rates a fall is inevitable.
The full picture is the vastly more money we pay in than get back in grants. Looking at the grants alone is ignoring the big picture.
Of course, the whole EU is nothing more than the less than 1% of its economy that goes around in the Budget. It's not about being able to invest, live and work where you want in Europe. It's not about being able to have intricate production lines that spread out over several countries, it's not about being able to know that once your products are admitted back home you can sell them to consumers in Crete and Madeira without having to jump through their local hoops first. Really Randblade we know it, the EU is nothing more than the apparatus that administers it in Brussels and the evil fact that they spend some of your money on roads your lorries use when they deliver British exports in Croatia. You go back to spending your weekly 350 chizzlesticks on doctors and nurses you won't have in your NHS any longer and we'll get back to doing things like it's the 21st century.
The trust in your economy has dropped to the level where the equivalent of saying 'me too' by Hollande, puts your currency in a tailspin. That is the geo-political situation after Brexit.
Congratulations America
You're putting a lot of weight on a tiny movement in the currency market. Our currency hasn't collapsed this year, it is down 14% on what it was trending pre referendum. The currency collapse happened eight years ago now. Since that devaluation eight years ago our economy has gone from strength to strength albeit with risks of deflation.
A second minor adrenaline boost of devaluation now is no bad thing. It is slaying the dangers of deflation.
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