Yes, Amazon got rid of WikiLeaks because it doesn't want trouble with the US government. Assange's retaliation (that he'll hire workers in Europe instead) is just inane. He seems to have the temper of a 13-year-old boy.
Yes, Amazon got rid of WikiLeaks because it doesn't want trouble with the US government. Assange's retaliation (that he'll hire workers in Europe instead) is just inane. He seems to have the temper of a 13-year-old boy.
Hope is the denial of reality
I don't know, this doesn't really have the same meaning as:Originally Posted by Loki
Which seems to be the case since wikileaks is now paying a European company for hosting access. From a security point the US seems to have jumped the gun again, I would think it would be a hell of a lot easier to get access logs from the american based company, especially since they caved so easy. There is no way they are going to be able to stop this from happening, so why not learn something from it?
And you think that's a sane retort? Because America (or Amazon) really cares that the guy will spend his blood money in Europe?
Hope is the denial of reality
Assange has a fascinating and bizarre bio. Interesting piece at the New Yorker. (I think that's where it was....) The data dump and Wikileaks are different topics from Assange's character, though.
I think its a frustrated yet relevant status update considering the DDOS attack that wikileaks was crashing under.
You may have had better luck attacking the more generic 2nd tweet
blood moneyhere we go again
That's not entirely what I said. "pshaw, we all knew this stuff anyway" may not be my exact words but is a fair representation of my position
"no-one really cares" is not what I've said. People only care due to the scale IMO, but I don't deny people care. I don't entirely see why they should though. I also think the way people who care are acting is a grotesque over-reaction bordering on comedy.
As for that article, I thought it was prior general knowledge that Prince Andrew is a prick.
Anyway I'm still yet to hear anything of any relevance that was not common knowledge. Apparently "Russia is virtually mafia state" is today's shocking allegation. Really, I never knew that! Whatever next "'Pope's tend to be Catholic' shocking allegation according to leaked cables"
You're again confusing common knowledge in the West with confirmed knowledge on the streets of the East. And the bigger point is not the revelations themselves, but the willingness of Eastern diplomats/politicians to expose themselves to a similar situation in the future by continuing providing their honest views in private.
Hope is the denial of reality
Why's it not common knowledge in the East? Because of a lack of a free press. What's going to change with this leak? Nothing.
The information was out there and is still out there, putting it out there again for the umpteenth time won't make a jot of difference in nations without a free press if the information was suppressed previously it will remain suppressed. You think Putin's pet media are reporting the mafia allegations?
Ahmadinajed immediately responded by claiming that the reports were false propaganda invented by the west.
As for your final question, yes. There were leaks in the past and will be again in the future. People are arrogant douchebags half the time and diplomats are no different. Still intrigued by your claims that these were "honest views", these were diplomatic views and we'll get diplomatic views in the future still the same.
You're normally the queen of 'realpolitik', the idea that people were honest with your diplomats previously, not themselves involved with realpolitik is quite amusing. However you want to call it: realpolitik, diplomatic language, daes dae'mar as Robert Jordan said - this will continue.
Actually, Putin's media is reporting the allegations, as is al-Jazeera. Before the leaks, people in the East were dealing with just rumors. And there's no way to tell which rumors are true and which are not. This is far more than rumors.
Would you care to provide an example of a leak of this scale?
Pray tell which part of realpolitik demands that you lie in private to other countries.Sure, it happens, but to suggest that most such communication is deceitful is dead wrong. There has actually been a study recently that shows that countries lie remarkably little. They have reputations to protect and relationships to foster. Few things are really worth damaging the two over.
Hope is the denial of reality
Yet to one extent it is still rumours. It is the leaked views of diplomats and already being denied to some.
I've already said the scale is new. But what is leaked is not. Now would you care to provide an example of anything we didn't already know about - since you're so obsessed about how big a scale this all is it should be remarkably easy to find something new.Would you care to provide an example of a leak of this scale?
You don't think people tell others what they think they want to hear?Pray tell which part of realpolitik demands that you lie in private to other countries.
But there's been a study recently...... showing that "countries" lie remarkably little. They have reputations to preserve.
Oy
Diplomats enjoy something spies don't...you guessed it...diplomatic immunity. Now we have learned that our diplomats are in fact being used as spies (collecting DNA, fingerprints, etc...). I didn't know before the leaks and it makes me wonder how that might affect diplomatic immunity going forward. But from your attitude I must assume that you already knew diplomats were employed as spies so maybe you can also tell us what effects that has on diplomatic immunity.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Can you please stop responding to me with your consistently idiotic, condescending, and irrelevant remarks. Thank you.But there's been a study recently...... showing that "countries" lie remarkably little. They have reputations to preserve.
Oy
Hope is the denial of reality
But the average Arab didn't know that until this week!
None. Diplomatic immunity being abused for espionage is well known about, the fact you didn't know it is your own ignorance.Diplomats enjoy something spies don't...you guessed it...diplomatic immunity. Now we have learned that our diplomats are in fact being used as spies (collecting DNA, fingerprints, etc...). I didn't know before the leaks and it makes me wonder how that might affect diplomatic immunity going forward. But from your attitude I must assume that you already knew diplomats were employed as spies so maybe you can also tell us what effects that has on diplomatic immunity.
EDIT: Completely OT but fascinating story in that article* The Burmese ambassador in Sri Lanka in 1979 shot his wife as she got out of the car after seeing a player in a night-club band of whom she was enamoured. As recalled by Gerald Hensley, then Vice-Dean of the Diplomatic Corps in Sri Lanka; Hensley was based in Singapore and accredited from New Zealand as High Commissioner to Sri Lanka as well:
The next morning the neighbours in Cinnamon Gardens (Colombo) were surprised to see the ambassador stacking wood on the back lawn and, connoisseurs of cremation, quickly grasped that he was building a pyre. When the police were called the ambassador opened the metal front gates just enough to say that there was no trouble and to remind them that his house was Burmese territory. Then he went back to work. The houses around his long back garden were now alive with fascinated spectators as he emerged with the body of his wife, placed it on the pyre and set it alight. He was well connected at home but after an awkward interval he was recalled.[20]
I think it is stupid and somewhat irresponsible to say there's little to negligible difference between 'knowing' in your gut that the US has tortured some people, somewhere, for something, and having hard proof that the US has tortured these and these people in these and these locations for these reasons. Just to name an extreme example. We all know the Big Boys do Bad Things, but once there's a paper trail? If you think that's insignificant, I don't know what to tell you.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Your own quote contradicts your belief that your knowledge was any better than mine before these leaks.
So where did you come by this knowledge that diplomats are spying?Originally Posted by wiki article on diplomatic immunity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity
Espionage
Minor espionage activity, or gathering information of host countries is conducted in almost every embassy.[citation needed] A typical position for an intelligence officer is as second press attaché, visa attaché or other position with no clear responsibilities. In the United States, it is a policy of the Foreign Service not to confirm or deny the existence of intelligence personnel in U.S. embassies.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Randblade believes all his assumptions are true. He doesn't need proof or actual knowledge of the facts. See the post above.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
That's not a contradiction.Your own quote contradicts your belief that your knowledge was any better than mine before these leaks.
So where did you come by this knowledge that diplomats are spying?
So the only response to my claim that there's nothing new is either that there's a lot of things that aren't new, or that yes things aren't new but others may not have known about them. Sounds fair?
It most certainly is a contradiction. Nothing is, as you said, well known, if it is neither confirmed nor denied.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Most spying in non-hostile territory has always been centered on embassies and consulates, performed by staff who are assigned to those facilities and are according diplomatic immunity, or related courtesies.Diplomats enjoy something spies don't...you guessed it...diplomatic immunity. Now we have learned that our diplomats are in fact being used as spies (collecting DNA, fingerprints, etc...). I didn't know before the leaks and it makes me wonder how that might affect diplomatic immunity going forward. But from your attitude I must assume that you already knew diplomats were employed as spies so maybe you can also tell us what effects that has on diplomatic immunity.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
[citation needed]
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Take a look at news stories involving people jailed for international espionage, compared to people expelled from a country for the same. Do some addition.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Good luck convincing him. Being and GGT decided to start a "experts are always wrong and we're always right" club. And their definition of expert seems to be "someone who actually knows something about the topic they talk about."
What the hell are you going on about here, Dr. Loki?
I can quick edit, too. Question remains---what the hell are you going on about here?
Oooh, I see now! Sorry I missed this post earlier. I interjected because you mentioned "common knowledge". Just the type of statement you've given me grief about in the past. Surely you remember. Though I'm missing how that correlates to your last comment about Being and I having formed some anti-expert club. WTF is that all about?
You claim the knowledge existed. I'm asking you and Rand to point to it. Assumptions and speculation don't count. The leaks provided hard facts.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
@ Being: since Loki isn't answering my question, can you? What's this supposed club you and I have about "experts are always wrong and we're always right"?
Loki's modus operandi is to insinuate his way out of a difficult position. If he can convince the audience that you have an agenda then he doesn't need to bother providing facts to prove you wrong.
Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?
Nah, really?
This whole thread should be about what we think of "news", and the kind of "news" we usually have readily available. That's why the Wiki Leaks are illustrative, right?
Fuzzy said "Take a look at news stories involving people jailed for international espionage, compared to people expelled from a country for the same. Do some addition."
I thought the whole point of the Wiki Leaks is how our new stories don't give us a full or accurate picture, even if we have hunches or gut feelings about not knowing the whole truth.
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