Well, some of them were arrested just a few days ago so maybe in about 18 weeks we can revisit this challengeOriginally Posted by Loki
Well, some of them were arrested just a few days ago so maybe in about 18 weeks we can revisit this challenge
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I'm sure there are a great number of people offering paid services to this purpose, and the Invisible Free Hand will ensure that only the most efficient dead-disturbers will remain in the business of disturbing the dead. What are you, some kind of retard?
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
Oh well, as long as you're using highly objective metrics like that and not relying on subjective and easily inflamed public sentiment.Not like anyone could possibly take almost anything out of context and claim it's abusive or obscene, nor are such vague and nebulous terms inherently begging to be abused...
Yeah, I know your island's judiciary is nuttier than an asylum. Speaking, not a form of "communication." That's even worse than the semantic gymnastics our courts do.
That it isn't is kind of the point though. Because it isn't, every absurd abuse imaginable has or will come to pass, and all it takes is a little imagination and a bunch of ephemeral public outrage over the cruelty of life. For example, you seem to be unaware that in the UK, you can get 6 months in prison for stealing a few dollars worth of bottled water, and 9 months for raping a minor.So, no, you don't really have a leg to stand on when you imply that the law will never be twisted to absurd lengths because it's not being interpreted by AIs from I, Robot, because the fact of the matter is, humans twist the law to more absurd lengths on a regular basis. Stealing a few bottles of bottled water: 66% as bad as raping a 9 year old, for example. For that matter, since 18 weeks is 4 and a half months, online trolling is half as bad as raping a 9 year old.
That's one hell of a legal system you have over there, which is clearly not twisted even beyond the realms of absurdity into some 5th dimensional hyper infinity of bat-shit-what-the-fucking-fuck-insane.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
I love the bulbs surrounding moral arithmeticStealing a few bottles of bottled water: 66% as bad as raping a 9 year old, for example. For that matter, since 18 weeks is 4 and a half months, online trolling is half as bad as raping a 9 year old.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
I didn't know the UK--or any legal system, for that matter--had a linear relationship between the badness of a crime and length of prison sentence. Nor did I know the UK focused exclusively on the punishment aspect of justice. But it would be interesting to read more about this case of the 9-month sentence for raping a 9-year-old.That it isn't is kind of the point though. Because it isn't, every absurd abuse imaginable has or will come to pass, and all it takes is a little imagination and a bunch of ephemeral public outrage over the cruelty of life. For example, you seem to be unaware that in the UK, you can get 6 months in prison for stealing a few dollars worth of bottled water, and 9 months for raping a minor.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I'm sure Kain is more than able to explain to you the wonders of, say, the Soviet justice system.
In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
One gulag at a time. We're discussing the UK's human rights abuses right now, but we can do the Soviets next, if you'd like.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
This is neither libel nor slander, both of which are rightfully kept narrowly-defined in the laws of most free societies. There are societies out there which have tolerated being offensive regarding someone's death without much problem. As has been pointed out, we have upheld the right to make nonsensical offensive protests at funerals.
Is it pleasant? No. But it's worth it to preserve the freedom of expression many people enjoy for the 99% of time we're not at funerals.
But to paraphrase Natan Sharansky's definition of a free society, it's completely reasonable to build a society around the concept that someone can stand up in a public place and express a contrary/offensive view without fear of reprisal.
Which is of course not analogous to the case at hand.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Do you think fines are a better way to deal with this sort of behavior, if we find it punishable at all?
I think what this kid did is pretty similar to protesting at military funerals to agitate against homosexuality. Or going into public to say something ludicrous/unpopular/crass is pretty comparable.
Found your problem there, chief.
You're talking to a bunch of folks who think it's unreasonable and barbaric to have a government that doesn't take more than half of everyone's money and place restrictions on all manner of arbitrary facets of life. May as well be trying to explain the concept of calculus to a lizard, for how alien the idea of a free society is to most people in general, and the people you're talking to in particular.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
A truly free society is not free at all.
I'm not sure what famous person said that quote, but it wasn't me, and it's very true.
That's both what you think of forum members, and society at large? By trying to define a negative? pfft, then why are you choosing to post on this forum, and why did you choose to emigrate to the US? After all, if we're all just reptiles, why would you waste your vast and omniscient wisdom on such lower life forms? Can't you compete with the big brains, or what?
Presumably because Canuckistan is worse.
Hope is the denial of reality
Thank you for that insightful, highly relevant and completely accurate contribution. By all means, please continue.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Can you stop trolling Cain, it's absolutely ridiculous you're a grown man.
You might wanna read into the threads I started a while back, Christian hotel owners penalised for turning away a gay couple (UK) and Florist refuses to outfit gay wedding, it's really that bad!
No, and right back at you. If you want to try engaging GeeGee in one of her train-wrecks of thought, that's on you. I've given up trying to untangle that Gordian Knot, and now I'm content to simply point out that she's making no sense, not accurately representing my position, and get a little chuckle out of it. Early seasons of the Simpsons, back when it was funny. That's quality content, is what that is.
Which is different from trolling, by the way, though you're free to try to explain to me how having an opposing political opinion from yours qualifies as trolling, if you'd like... but I think I'd rather you didn't.
Well, normally when I want to get depressed about the state of the world I read the libertarian and "bad cop no donut" reddits, but I'll add your threads to the list for tomorrow. No sense wasting time being happy at work, after all.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
Lebbie and I were having a fine convo, as far as I'm concerned. If I'm wrong about that, he'd kindly say so and re-direct. Too bad guys like you (Cain) keep interjecting your crap nonsense that distracts me.
Good grief, another one who does not get it. It was an example of limits to your magical "free speech", my dear. Libel is one thing that does not fly with free speech. Slander is another thing that does not wash with free speech. Death threats are not allowed, contrary to free speech. And so on.
There are plenty of boundaries to that Free Speech of yours - and this is another boundary. Just LIKE libel and slander.
By the way, Westboro Church members would face up to 3 years in jail if they disturbed a funeral in Germany.
Those two are easy to fix: Don't run a public business and you can turn away whomever you like. And don't break contracts.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
And as I mentioned, libel and slander tend to have very narrow definitions and a very high bar to actually convict someone of those charges. Coincidentally, the UK has some of the lowest standards to convict someone of libel and slander.
What does that have to do with my point? I said that Free Speech does not exist and that there are several limitations to it, libel and slander among them as an example.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
It is. My lawyers would definitely instruct me not to do that.
Is that really against the law in the UK too? Insanity.
That's not illegal over here, nor should it be illegal, but any lawyer (or person with half a brain) would advise against doing it because it's stupid and begs retaliation. Even if that retaliation is a baseless lawsuit, that costs money, to say nothing of the fact that you're probably going to get your face smashed in with a tire iron for sending out a letter like that, and rightfully so.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
So are you actually stating anything of importance, or that adds to this discussion? Congratulations, we get it, a perfect implementation of Free Speech does not exist. Can we get back to discussing whether harassment and other forms of objectionable speech should or should not be punished, and for what reasons?
. . .
The legal system is full of things like that. It's why we have judges.Oh well, as long as you're using highly objective metrics like that and not relying on subjective and easily inflamed public sentiment.
So, what you do is you show the context, and then the case gets thrown out?Not like anyone could possibly take almost anything out of context and claim it's abusive or obscene, nor are such vague and nebulous terms inherently begging to be abused...
Communication was my word, not theirs. What the law actually says is "a [F1letter, electronic communication or article of any description] which conveys— [blah blah]"Yeah, I know your island's judiciary is nuttier than an asylum. Speaking, not a form of "communication." That's even worse than the semantic gymnastics our courts do.
Well, first of all I'd say this is a bit beyond the scope of whether or not harassment should be protected by freedom of speech laws? But broadly, I'd say that having law interpreted is preferable to it being set in stone.That it isn't is kind of the point though. Because it isn't, every absurd abuse imaginable has or will come to pass, and all it takes is a little imagination and a bunch of ephemeral public outrage over the cruelty of life. For example, you seem to be unaware that in the UK, you can get 6 months in prison for stealing a few dollars worth of bottled water, and 9 months for raping a minor.
BTW, do you have a link for the 9 months thing?
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
He'll be hard pressed to provide such a link: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/s...anual/s1_rape/
[...]The extreme youth or old age of a victim should be an aggravating factor.
In addition, in principle, the younger the child and the greater the age gap between the offender and the victim, the higher the sentence should be.[...]
Type/nature of activity:
- Single offence of rape by single offender
Starting points:
- 10 years custody if the victim is under 13
- 8 years custody if the victim is 13 or over but under 16
- 5 years custody if the victim is 16 or over
Sentencing ranges:
- 8-13 years custody
- 6-11 years custody
- 4-8 years custody
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
There was a man who was sentenced to 9 months in prison for molesting boyscouts, no other details on the sentence
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
But, of course, if those safeguards did work, we wouldn't be having this discussion. In reality, those safeguards don't work, and we end up with absurd or obscene distortions of the law on a regular basis, usually from the judges or prosecutors tasked with being a a mechanism to ensure reasonableness in the way the law is applied. I hardly think I need to show you examples of that, even if we disagree on this particular case... there's more than enough examples that are almost universally ridiculous.
So... you can or cannot run afoul of this law by calling someone a mean name with your voice/audibly mocking a dead person's memorial/etc.? (Not sure which answer is more ridiculous, but I'd rather be ridiculing the law for the right reason, at least).
Not really, because we're constantly reminded that every law will be stretched beyond its original meaning, as dictated by the fickle whim of the mob. That fact directly impacts on the question of whether or not harassment should be criminalized, and to what extent... because it's a very short distance from "obscene" to "offensive" and before you know it, "offensive" political speech is punished by jail time, or at least stifled by the prospect, and that's the end of meaningful political expression.
Well, of course it is. I'm not saying any different; I was merely refuting your assertion that insane distortions of the law only happen in 60's sci fi when the robots start trying to parse legal codes. Humans manage all amount of legal insanity and utter absurdity just fine without the assistance of AI.
It's over in the UK riots thread thread somewhere. I don't remember exactly, but it came from Loki and was in response to something I said about that guy getting 6 months in jail for stealing bottled water from a store during the riots... I really just remember the 9 for 9 bit, on account of having to resist the urge to make a really tasteless pedophile comment.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.
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