*Facemuffin*

[LittleFuzzy]

For fuck's sake! This is an opinion, not an some deeper factual truth about life! It's just a pithy quote whose only purpose today is to mock others for being fraidycat sheeple, even though in reality it's an expression of a position that is untenable in a modern society. Anyone who implicitly supports the sentiment in that quote by eg. posting it in a discussion is a hypocrite. Stop using this retarded and underhanded quote in good discussions with good people. God

Put simply, you're wrong. The bolded portion is the thesis on which the rest is based and it A) makes several assumptions about "modern" society which people can reasonably disagree with, b) treats the present as immutable, and C) is just plain inaccurate, even on its face.

[Illusions]

"Essential" is a very subjective item,

Regardless of your take on what "essential" means, it is a smaller set than all liberties/freedoms. Same thing goes with temporary safety versus safety in general.

[agamemnus]

Regardless of your take on what "essential" means, it is a smaller set than all liberties/freedoms. Same thing goes with temporary safety versus safety in general.

You are absolutely incredibly 100% definitively correct.

[Hazir]

What i was wondering is; why bother with packing lunch if that lunch consists of a soda with chips? İt seems like a highly illogical way of going about things.

[Hazir]

Put simply, you're wrong. The bolded portion is the thesis on which the rest is based and it A) makes several assumptions about "modern" society which people can reasonably disagree with, b) treats the present as immutable, and C) is just plain inaccurate, even on its face.

Really? Whatever 18th century American that witticism originated with, he got it entirely wrong. Society's raison d'etre is security, and for being part of society we inevitably surrender freedom. The real question is how much freedom we are willing to surrender for the level of security we want.

He might as well have said, if you want to live within earshot of another human you deserve to be a slave.

[Aimless]

Put simply, you're wrong. The bolded portion is the thesis on which the rest is based and it A) makes several assumptions about "modern" society which people can reasonably disagree with, b) treats the present as immutable, and C) is just plain inaccurate, even on its face.

Put simply, you're wrong, unless we're talking about the original quote rather than the mangled version Aggie & co. so adore. Hazir has expressed my thoughts more succintly, now please make me a sandwich, slave

[Flixy]

The ' how much freedom to sacrifice for how much security' thing is covered by the essential and temporary part, though. Which is why agamemnus abused it when he left that part out.

[GGT]

What i was wondering is; why bother with packing lunch if that lunch consists of a soda with chips? İt seems like a highly illogical way of going about things.

You mean from the OP article?

Carmona said she created the policy six years ago after watching students bring "bottles of soda and flaming hot chips" on field trips for their lunch. Although she would not name any other schools that employ such practices, she said it was fairly common.

Kids who typically would have used the school cafeteria lunch may have parents who've never packed a brown bag lunch. Kids are also known to "pick their own" stuff for field trips, the Lunchables used to be popular that way, pre-packaged things like pizza or taco meals.

[LittleFuzzy]

Put simply, you're wrong, unless we're talking about the original quote rather than the mangled version Aggie & co. so adore. Hazir has expressed my thoughts more succintly, now please make me a sandwich, slave

Of course we're talking about the original quote. You'd already made that absolutely clear.

Question: Do you actually think that, if the tools and institutions of our respective, highly centralized modern national governments chose to deprive us of any or every freedom you care to name, that we'd be able to resist them?

[Hazir]

The ' how much freedom to sacrifice for how much security' thing is covered by the essential and temporary part, though. Which is why agamemnus abused it when he left that part out.

The qualifications merely make the statement rather meaningless. Rather like 'consider carefully the price you want to pay'. The original quote is not really worth talking about, which is problaby why it usually is paraphrased.

[GGT]

Isn't that a Thomas Jefferson quote about those who sacrifice safety for freedom deserve neither? Well, here's another Jefferson quote:

The earth belongs to the living, not to the dead.

[LittleFuzzy]

Isn't that a Thomas Jefferson quote about those who sacrifice safety for freedom deserve neither? Well, here's another Jefferson quote:

It's Benjamin Franklin. It was something to do with the Pennsylvania legislature in 1777, I forget what.

[GGT]

It's Benjamin Franklin. It was something to do with the Pennsylvania legislature in 1777, I forget what.

He had many great quotes. A penny saved is a penny earned. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Pretty sure those were Ben quotes.

Franklin was never an elected legislator, though. An iconic American, sure. Didn't he start the Poor Man's Almanac, which we still read today?