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  1. #1
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  2. #2
    I'll remember this piece whenever I see some worthless freak boasting on some online forum or social media about the world's most moral army.

    https://www.972mag.com/israel-tortur...aza-detainees/

    In early December, images circulated worldwide showing dozens of Palestinian men in the city of Beit Lahiya, in the northern Gaza Strip, who were stripped to their underwear, kneeling or sitting hunched over, then blindfolded and put into the back of Israeli military trucks like cattle. The vast majority of these detainees were civilians with no affiliation to Hamas, Israeli security officials later confirmed, and the men were taken away by the army without notifying their families of the detainees’ whereabouts. Some of them never returned.

    +972 Magazine and Local Call spoke with four Palestinian civilians who appeared in these photos, or were arrested near the scene and taken to Israeli military detention centers, where they were held for several days or even weeks before being released back to Gaza. Their testimonies — along with 49 video testimonies published by various Arabic media outlets of Palestinians arrested in similar circumstances in recent weeks in the northern districts of Zeitoun, Jabalia, and Shuja’iya — indicate systematic abuse and torture by Israeli soldiers against all of the detainees, civilians and combatants alike.

    According to these testimonies, Israeli soldiers subjected Palestinian detainees to electric shocks, burned their skin with lighters, spat in their mouths, and deprived them of sleep, food, and access to bathrooms until they defecated on themselves. Many were tied to a fence for hours, handcuffed, and blindfolded for most of the day. Some testified to having been beaten all over their bodies and having cigarettes extinguished on their necks or backs. Several people are known to have died as a result of being held in these conditions.

    ...

    Four different witnesses separately told +972 and Local Call that while sitting handcuffed in the street, soldiers entered homes in the neighborhood and set them on fire; +972 and Local Call have obtained photos of one of the burned houses. The soldiers told the detainees they had been arrested because “they didn’t evacuate to the southern Gaza Strip.”

    An unknown number of Palestinian civilians remain in the northern part of the Strip despite Israeli expulsion orders since the early stages of the war, which led to hundreds of thousands fleeing southward. Those we spoke to listed several reasons why they did not leave: fear of being bombed by the Israeli army on the journey south or while sheltering there; fear that Hamas operatives would shoot them; mobility difficulties or disabilities among family members; and the uncertainty of life in the camps for displaced persons in the south. Lubad’s wife, for example, had just given birth, and they feared the dangers of leaving their home with a newborn.

    The detainees, still in their underwear, were then taken to another beach inside Israel, near the Zikim army base, where, according to their testimonies, soldiers interrogated them and severely beat them. According to media reports, members of IDF Unit 504, a military intelligence corps, carried out these initial interrogations.

    ...

    Maher recounted his experience to +972 and Local Call: “A soldier asked me, ‘What’s your name?’ and started punching me in the stomach and kicking me. He said, ‘You’ve been in Hamas for two years, tell me how they recruited you.’ I told him I was a student. Two soldiers opened my legs and punched me there and punched me in the face. I started coughing and realized that I wasn’t breathing. I told them, ‘I’m a civilian, I’m a civilian.’

    “I remember reaching my hand down my body and feeling something heavy,” Maher continued. “I didn’t realize it was my leg. I stopped feeling my body. I told the soldier that it hurt, and he stopped and asked where; I told him in the stomach, and then he hit me hard in the stomach. They told me to get up. I couldn’t feel my legs and couldn’t walk. Every time I fell, they beat me again. My mouth and nose were bleeding, and I fainted.”

    ...

    According to the IDF Spokesperson’s Office, the military detention facilities are intended only for questioning and initial screening of detainees, before they are transferred to the Israel Prison Service or until their release. The testimonies from Palestinians who were held inside the facility, however, paint an entirely different picture.

    ...

    According to testimonies, the most common punishment was being tied to a fence and having to raise their arms for several hours. Whoever lowered them was taken away by the soldiers and beaten.

    ...

    “You can’t move,” Lubad recalled of the rules. “If you move, the soldier points a laser at you and tells the Shawish, ‘Get him out, raise his hands.’ If you put your hands down, the Shawish takes you outside, and the soldiers beat you. I was tied to the fence twice. And I kept my hands up because there were people around me who were really getting hurt. One person came back with a broken leg. You hear the beating and screaming on the other side of the fence."

    ...

    In one case, Lubad said, a detainee who refused to kneel and lowered his hands instead of keeping them raised was taken behind the barbed wire fence with his hands cuffed. The detainees heard beatings, then heard the detainee cursing a soldier, and then a gunshot. They don’t know if the detainee was actually shot, or whether he is alive or dead; in any case, he did not return for the rest of the time that those we spoke to were held there.

    ...

    In interviews with Arabic media outlets, former detainees testified that other inmates held at the facility died next to them. “People died inside. One had heart disease. They threw him out, they didn’t want to take care of him,” one person told Al Jazeera.

    Several detainees who were with Lubad also told him about such a death. They said that prior to his arrival, an elderly man from Al-Shati refugee camp, who was ill, died at the facility as a result of the conditions of detention. The detainees decided to go on a hunger strike to protest his death, and returned their rationed pieces of cheese and bread to the soldiers. The detainees told Lubad that at night, soldiers came in and severely beat them while handcuffed, and then threw teargas canisters at them. The detainees stopped striking.

    ...

    In video testimonies, Palestinians who were released back to Gaza describe cases in which soldiers put out cigarettes on detainees’ bodies and even gave them electric shocks. “I was detained for 18 days,” a young man told Al Jazeera. “[The soldier] sees you falling asleep, takes a lighter, and burns your back. They put out cigarettes on my back a few times. One of the guys [who was blindfolded] said to [the soldier], ‘I want to drink water,’ and the soldier told him to open his mouth and then spat in it.”

    Another detainee said he was tortured for five or six days. “‘You want to go to the bathroom? Forbidden,’” he recounted being told. “[The soldier] beats you. And I’m not Hamas, what am I to blame for? But he keeps telling you: ‘You are Hamas, everyone who remains in Gaza [City] is Hamas. If you weren’t Hamas, you would have gone to the south. We told you to go south.’”

    Shadi al-Adawiya, another detainee who was released, told TRT in a videotaped testimony: “They put cigarettes out on our necks, hands, and backs. They kick you in the hands and head. And there are electric shocks.”

    “You can’t ask for anything,” another released detainee told Al Jazeera after arriving at a hospital in Rafah. “If you say, ‘I want a drink,’ they beat you all over your body. There is no difference between old and young. I am 62 years old. They hit me in the ribs, and I’ve had trouble breathing ever since.”

    ...

    After the outbreak of the current war in October, this law was amended: according to the version approved by the Knesset on Dec. 18, Israel can also hold such detainees for up to 45 days without issuing a detention order — a provision that has concerning ramifications.

    “They don’t exist for 45 days,” Tal Steiner, the executive director of the Public Committee Against Torture in Israel, told +972 and Local Call. “Their families are not notified. During this time, people can die and no one will know about it. [You have to] go prove it happened at all. A lot of people can just disappear.”

    ...

    Lubad was taken to Jerusalem for interrogation three days later. “The interrogator punched me in the face, and in the end they took me outside and blindfolded me,” he said. “I tried to take the blindfold off, because it hurt, and a soldier kneed me in the forehead, so I left it.

    “Half an hour later, they brought another detainee, a university professor,” Lubad continued. “Apparently, he didn’t cooperate with them during the interrogation. They beat him really brutally next to me. They told him, ‘You’re defending Hamas, you’re not answering questions. Get down on your knees, raise your hands.’ I felt two people coming toward me. I thought it was my turn to be beaten and cramped my body to prepare. Someone whispered in my ear: ‘Say dog.’ I said I didn’t understand. He said to me, ‘Say, the day will come for every dog,’” implying death or punishment.

    ...

    But on the phone, he felt that his family wasn’t telling him something. Eventually, Lubad discovered that an hour after his younger brother had returned from his detention at Zikim Beach, he was killed by an Israeli shell that hit a neighbor’s house.

    Recalling the last time he saw his brother, Lubad said: “I saw how we were sitting there in boxers, and it was terribly cold, and I whispered to him, ‘It’s okay, it’s okay, you’ll be back safely.’”

    ...

    Regarding allegations of ill-treatment and torture, the IDF Spokesperson said that “any allegations of improper conduct in the detention facility are thoroughly investigated. The detainees are handcuffed according to their risk level and health condition, according to a daily assessment. Once a day, the military detention facility holds a doctor’s lineup to check the medical condition of the detainees requiring it.”

    The detainees who spoke to +972 and Local Call, however, said that they were examined by a doctor only upon their arrival at the facility, and they did not receive any subsequent medical treatment despite their repeated requests.
    Esp. telling are the repeated mentions of IDF soldiers wondering why the people they were torturing hadn't fled to the south. It shows that the IDF's intelligence-gathering efforts are in the hands of incredibly stupid men. Fascism makes people stupid.

    All active members of the IDF—and esp. all of their leaders—should be hit with targeted sanctions and travel bans. There should be int'l arrest warrants out for IDF leaders and anyone suspected of being involved in the crimes detailed in this article. Human rights lawyers in the EU must lead the way, lobbying both member states and Brussels.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  3. #3
    -
    Last edited by BluntHorse; 08-24-2024 at 04:11 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluntHorse View Post
    What are you crying about?

    Jews were persecuted for hundreds of years in Europe and killed in their millions in the holocaust by Germans.

    Logically, this gives adherents of Zionism an ongoing right to punish Palestinians for this crime by establishing a state on their land, displacing them and killing them.

    The characteristic of the resultant established Zionist state is Jewish. The state claims to represent all Jews. Therefore, logically, to criticise Zionism or the implementation of its colonial project is to be racist against all Jews. If you don't agree you are a rabid anti-semite.

    Btw, any accusations against Israel, of collective punishment, ethnic cleansing and genocide is a blood libel. It confirms you are an anti-semite.

    Israelis are only human and its only human to make mistakes. The only mistake they made was that the ethnic cleansing and genocide against the disgusting Arabs (who are sub human) was not 100%.

    What's not clear?
    You seem to be unaware that at least 1 out of 2 Israelis is 100% middle eastern. And they have zero connectionsti Europe.
    Congratulations America

  5. #5
    Don't be weird abt it mate, you're addressing people who aren't here
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  6. #6
    Strange that all the free speech absolutists aren't taking up this guy's cause.

    https://www.idsnews.com/article/2024...tion-palestine
    Last edited by Loki; 01-11-2024 at 08:54 PM.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Strange that all the free speech absolutists aren't taking up thos guy's cause.

    https://www.idsnews.com/article/2024...tion-palestine
    Admin with an incredible commitment to loser shit
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  8. #8
    Statewide commitment to loser shit:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/11/a...-canceled.html
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  9. #9
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  10. #10
    -
    Last edited by BluntHorse; 08-24-2024 at 04:09 PM.

  11. #11
    Meanwhile, Turkey acts like Turkey.

    After Sunday's match Sagiv Jehezkel was briefly detained in the southern city of Antalya and accused of incitement.

    It is unclear whether he faces prosecution if he returns to Turkey. His club, Antalyaspor, has sacked him.

    Jehezkel's arrest prompted a bitter war of words between the Israeli and Turkish governments.

    The 28-year-old player, who signed for Antalyaspor in September, was celebrating an equaliser in a Turkish Super Lig match when he held up his bandaged hand that read "100 days. 7/10".
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67978736
    Hope is the denial of reality

  12. #12
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Meanwhile, Turkey acts like Turkey.



    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67978736
    It’s election time and all votes are needed, even antisemites count at the ballot box. Trade with Israel is unlike the Kuwaiti owned Starbucks not boycotted in Turkey. (Starbucks isn’t really either, but not drinking what they call coffee there is still a good idea).
    Congratulations America

  13. #13
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BluntHorse View Post
    https://www.instagram.com/p/C2IYtOBohQ3/

    Watching clips of doctors (Khamas) having to amputate their 16 years old daughters foot (Khamas) without anaesthetic, even though they are 5 minutes away from a hospital, but can't get to it due to the IDF, which is the most moral army in the world, makes me happy.

    There are no innocents in Gaza, not even babies. Everyone is Khamas.

    If you can't see the 1948 convention on the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide was made to protect Jews, and Jews are the real victim here, then you are twisting history, hate all Jews and are an anti-Semite. You are also Khamas. Only Jews are allowed to do genocide and not be criticised for it, not goyim.
    Who are you, Bojack?

  15. #15
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    Last edited by BluntHorse; 08-24-2024 at 04:10 PM. Reason: Even dinosaurs make mistakes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluntHorse View Post
    Do you refer to the Horseman? Nah, more of a dinosaur kind of guy.



    Don’t you ever forget that Palestine was a land without a people, for a people with out a land. Definitely no people here when Ashkenazis turned up in boats.
    And the people who were not here, ran away in 1948 because the other Arab countries promised them candy (definitely not killed by the Hagana or the Stern gang).
    And the IDF are the most moral army in the world. It is actually cruelty to animals to let them walk around and therefore more human to bomb them. (The whole Amalek is just about turning the other cheek and giving candy, ofcourse).

    If you disagree with any of that you are anti semitic. Maybe even a Moslem. And if you have the privilege of being a Jew then you are self hating Jew, naturally. Remember, Israel needs to kill Palestinians in the name of all Jews to keep Jews safe.
    The fun with this of course is that the anti-Zionist rendition is barely any truer.
    Congratulations America

  17. #17
    ICJ orders broadly favoring SA's case. Order to punish incitement is the lowest hanging fruit, and a concrete test for both Israel and its western allies. Hope to see journos pressing ministers in EU member states for clear comments and info on planned responses to the ruling. Sadly, European journos tend to be as lazy and pathetic as the govts they cover
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  18. #18
    Israeli intelligence identifies key arms supplier for Hamas:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/w...s-rockets.html
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  19. #19
    A counter-insurgency expert stating the obvious: that Israel's strategy this war never had any chance of success: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israe...ency-trap-gaza
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #20
    Not sure that's actually what he said.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  21. #21
    Right, the whole "these conflicts last for a decade, the terrorists are impossible to eliminate, there was no serious plan for what happens after the invasion" definitely don't mean this had no chance of success.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  22. #22
    Yeah, I don't have time to argue this. But I think your definition of success is not congruent with Israel's. The author appropriately highlighted the urgency with which Israel should be planning for the day after, but his predictions for the future were not retrospective.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  23. #23
    Israel's explicitly stated objective is to destroy Hamas. Are you now claiming that Israel is lying? Or are we redefining "destroy" to mean "kill a bunch of them"?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  24. #24
    Netanyahu's objective is to stay in power, and Israel's objective is to clear Gaza—of Palestinian life, Palestinian memory.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Netanyahu's objective is to stay in power, and Israel's objective is to clear Gaza—of Palestinian life, Palestinian memory.
    Oh come on with the "genocide" rhetoric.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Oh come on with the "genocide" rhetoric.
    It's an ongoing genocidal campaign where the genocidal intent has been clearly expressed by numerous representatives of the Israeli state, notwithstanding the moral dissonance of some chancer who went around Israel posing with guns
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  27. #27
    -
    Last edited by BluntHorse; 08-24-2024 at 04:10 PM.

  28. #28
    Nah man, there's no way a counter-insurgency campaign in the middle-east could ever turn into a quagmire.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  29. #29
    Netanyahu shanked a high-level hostage-exchange proposal:

    https://twitter.com/SuleimanMas1/sta...67015609032704

    (thread)
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  30. #30
    Update on the world's most moral army:

    https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-relea...ations-against

    Frankly, active membership in the IDF should be grounds for travel bans, and both IDF and its individual leaders should be hit with sanctions.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

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