Voter Photo ID -- Is It Really Terrible?

[Hazir]

No, I get that part. I just meant that requiring a photo id wouldn't necessarily obviate the need for repeated registration like eg. in the UK.

I don't mind photo ID, but if you're going to change a system it doesn't hurt to see both pros, cons and challenges the obstacles this new scheme would put before some people are challenges that need to be overcome.

The issue of suppression is just something i became interested in. even if id requirements result in a form of suppression, suppression is probably not the intent. And who knows if democrats would be more suppressed

Photo ID wouldn't really change anything, a comprehensive register would. But attempts to get there run into the same problems as plans for photo ID; both left wing and right wing of the body political and populace are against it for their very own reasons. But they are against so vehemently that the center dare not tread this minefield.

[Dreadnaught]

Recently I went to my local election board to obtain an absentee ballot, which legally is supposed to be printed a certain amount of time before the election.

In order to get into the building, I was asked to produce a photo identification to be scanned into the building's database. "RACISM" I screamed! "YOU ARE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST ME!"

I called my local branch of the AFSCME and and immediately demanded paper and markers to organize a picket. The African-American security guard put an exasperated look on his face (doesn't he realize how racist his demands are?) and called to the Board of Elections upstairs. They sent several staffers to come and speak with me in the lobby outside of the security checkpoint.

After I screamed at them for three minutes about ALEC and the racism of the Republican party, they said their procedures were to verify people's identity to get into the building and protect the integrity/security of their work, which in turn protects our democracy. "We can't just let anyone walk in here," she said.

As the election official stopped talking, a smirk grew on her face as she marveled in the smug superiority of her explanation. I then noticed that of the Board of Elections officials speaking to me, only 25% shared my race. "DISPERATE IMPACT!" I howled. "I AM GOING TO SUE YOU FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH OF YOU SHARE MY SKIN TONE!"

They seemed desperate to resolve this without my legal exposure of their vile and unreasonable discrimination, so one of them offered to just bring me an absentee ballot. The first Board of Elections member suddenly blushed, as she admitted that, due to a slow primary election counting process in a few Democratic primaries, there would be no absentee ballots until a week or two before the election.

"PERFIDY!" I screamed as the police flooded in to defend my legitimate right to walk into a building full of ballots, voter registrations and poll workers without any cursory verification of my identity and intentions.

[Lewkowski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5p70YbRiPw

[agamemnus]

I think that the vast majority of people (including myself) who want voter ID laws want them because the very idea of (very easily concealable) fraud and abuse are repugnant to them.

Recently I ...

Side-note:

Due to blanket country-wide Department of Justice legal threats (or something), and the fact that my city has an enormous Spanish-speaking population as a percentage, the city this year will be forced to produce the ballot in Spanish and English. They did this before, but not forcibly. Not my point, though...

My point, now: because of the verbosity of the three Massachusetts ballot questions before the voters, each ballot is two pages long -- that's double-sided, I believe, so four pages.

Instead of making one ballot in Spanish, and one in English of one page each, they made one in both, for two pages total for each person. Brilliant.

[Flixy]

Perhaps because all ballots have to be identical?

[agamemnus]

Perhaps because all ballots have to be identical?

Yes, I'm positive it has to do with some sort of perceived racism nonsense. "Oh look, he's taking the Spanish-language ballot. Let's beat him up!"

Those who never bothered to learn English and still want to vote should be happy that they were afforded this luxury, which in my opinion is an affront to all hard-working immigrants who took the time to at least try to learn English.

[GGT]

Dread, there's no constitutional right to enter a building as there is to vote. Your parody only managed to show that absentee-voting has the potential for fraud, not in-person voting. If fraud was the concern, where are the proposals to secure absentee-ballots, which can be mailed?

New photo-ID laws at polling stations are a solution without a problem. Voting in-person still checks identity with signatures, and there's been no proof that people are faking identity. If there's a need to upgrade or revamp our voting process, and everyone will be required to have state-issued photo-ID, they should have started the process long before this election....and figured out a way to get everyone that ID without charge (poll tax) or undo burden.

And if the real concern is about the 'sanctity' or validity of votes, they should have started with the machines and ballots themselves, especially after the FL fiasco and hanging chads. It's kinda pathetic that the US has so many different types of platforms, from ancient lever-curtain booths to fill-in-the-blank papers, instead of comprehensive/sophisticated computer models everywhere.

[Flixy]

Yes, I'm positive it has to do with some sort of perceived racism nonsense. "Oh look, he's taking the Spanish-language ballot. Let's beat him up!"

Those who never bothered to learn English and still want to vote should be happy that they were afforded this luxury, which in my opinion is an affront to all hard-working immigrants who took the time to at least try to learn English.

Err, two things. One: it's not perceived racism nonsense. All the reasons I can think of why ballots should be identical have nothing to do with racism.

Two: IIRC English isn't the official language of the USA (at least federally), so there is no real reason why the government should not provide its services and ballots etc. in more than one language. Especially since you mention your city has a huge Spanish speaking population.

[Dreadnaught]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5p70YbRiPw

Wowsa.

Dread, there's no constitutional right to enter a building as there is to vote. Your parody only managed to show that absentee-voting has the potential for fraud, not in-person voting. If fraud was the concern, where are the proposals to secure absentee-ballots, which can be mailed?

How can I enter the building to pick up and submit my absentee ballot if they are being racist plutocrats and demanding my ID? How can I conduct any business with the Board of Elections if they are going to stand behind the eeeeevil facade of asking me who I am?

[Loki]

I just read that there are 23 million Americans without photo IDs. If either party was really concerned with fraud or with voter access, is there a reason we can't buy each of these people an ID (if an ID costs $10 each, that would cost $230 million)?

[Dreadnaught]

Most voter ID laws include subsidies for free voter ID cards.

Though arguably the cost is actually much below $10 per card. Then again, it's government so the effective cost maybe would be $10 per card.

It's also worth noting that some voter ID laws don't demand photo IDs, but rather some kind of ID.

[Ominous Gamer]

The argument has always been about the hurdles and fees on the randomly changing official documents required in order to get these IDs.

[GGT]

How can I enter the building to pick up and submit my absentee ballot if they are being racist plutocrats and demanding my ID? How can I conduct any business with the Board of Elections if they are going to stand behind the eeeeevil facade of asking me who I am?

You use the US postal service....just like bi-state residents and citizens overseas.

I just read that there are 23 million Americans without photo IDs. If either party was really concerned with fraud or with voter access, is there a reason we can't buy each of these people an ID (if an ID costs $10 each, that would cost $230 million)?

And they could have planned to take those photos (free of charge) for every person voting at the polls this year, well in advance of the next election.

[Loki]

Unfortunately, we all know that the Republicans don't want certain people voting and the Democrats don't want to deter lazy and/or stupid people from voting (for obvious reasons).

[GGT]

Unfortunately, we all know that the Republicans don't want certain people voting and the Democrats don't want to deter lazy and/or stupid people from voting (for obvious reasons).

And there we have it -- the racist component.

It's fairly obvious by now that these "efforts" are meant to suppress or intimidate certain voters.

[Loki]

It's meant to suppress the votes of people who are generally less likely to vote, which happen to be minorities. I'm sure the GOP would be doing the same thing if those voters happened to be white.

[GGT]

It's meant to suppress the votes of people who are generally less likely to vote, which happen to be minorities. I'm sure the GOP would be doing the same thing if those voters happened to be white.

Bull. The GOP can't afford to lose white voters, since they make up their 'base'. The GOP relied on outdated stereotypes about likely voters in 2008, and lost the youth, student, racial and ethnic Votes.

[Loki]

You're not being very creative. There are plenty different types of white voters, and quite a few of those aren't very GOP-friendly. The GOP has no problem with throwing a wrench under their feet.

[GGT]

You're not being very creative. There are plenty different types of white voters, and quite a few of those aren't very GOP-friendly. The GOP has no problem with throwing a wrench under their feet.

The GOP is now its own worst enemy, that's for sure. Too bad for the GOP that Romney is now their party leader, and too bad for Romney that he's now the leader of the GOP.

[agamemnus]

Err, two things. One: it's not perceived racism nonsense. All the reasons I can think of why ballots should be identical have nothing to do with racism.

Like..?

Two: IIRC English isn't the official language of the USA (at least federally), so there is no real reason why the government should not provide its services and ballots etc. in more than one language. Especially since you mention your city has a huge Spanish speaking population.

Doesn't matter. It's a luxury that is hurting the country, socially (because of tensions related to miscommunications) and economically (because good communication is the key to success).

It's meant to suppress the votes of people who are generally less likely to vote, which happen to be minorities. I'm sure the GOP would be doing the same thing if those voters happened to be white.

Don't say "suppress"; been watching MSNBC lately?? No one is preventing anyone from voting, just making it more inconvenient for those who don't have.. any sort of documentation on their identity.

It's far more difficult to get a driver's license, at least sometimes. When I went to get my driver's license, I gave them my official birth certificate and my passport. Unfortunately, they claimed I needed THREE documents proving my identity until we started a storm. (passport not enough ID for these jerks??) I believe a utility bill/employer payment statement was enough to count for one of the three IDs. Equating passports to utility bills as a form of ID, and requiring three of them for a driver's license: your government at work.

You don't see democrat-liberals whining about the messed up driver's license acquisition process in Massachusetts (and probably many other states) all day on MSNBC, do you??

[Dreadnaught]

No absentee ballot has arrived, even though the paperwork was typewritten (to avoid handwriting goofs) and duly submitted in-person several weeks ahead of time. My ability to vote has been nullified by the incompetence of salaried-for-life unionized bureaucrats.

[GGT]

No absentee ballot has arrived, even though the paperwork was typewritten (to avoid handwriting goofs) and duly submitted in-person several weeks ahead of time. My ability to vote has been nullified by the incompetence of salaried-for-life unionized bureaucrats.

Is this a hypothetical scenario?

Applying for -- and using -- absentee ballots has a deadline. It's a time frame longer than one week prior to the election. I'll bet it's written (in the fine print) that if you haven't received your absentee ballot by X date, well in advance of the general election....YOU should call someone and follow through.

[Ominous Gamer]

No absentee ballot has arrived, even though the paperwork was typewritten (to avoid handwriting goofs) and duly submitted in-person several weeks ahead of time. My ability to vote has been nullified by the incompetence of salaried-for-life unionized bureaucrats.

New York postmark deadline to return an absentee ballot is Nov 5th.


My county has until tomorrow to mail out ballots to those that requested them.

[Aimless]

No absentee ballot has arrived, even though the paperwork was typewritten (to avoid handwriting goofs) and duly submitted in-person several weeks ahead of time. My ability to vote has been nullified by the incompetence of salaried-for-life unionized bureaucrats.

That's what you get for attempting voter fraud

[GGT]

That's cutting it too close, IMO. Even if there are provisions for Disasters and disruptions in US Postal Service.

[Ominous Gamer]

That's cutting it too close, IMO. Even if there are provisions for Disasters and disruptions in US Postal Service.

For Dread his Nov 5th postmarked ballot has until the 19th to reach where it needs to go.

For us, the deadline for tomorrow is because you could request one up until yesterday.

[Loki]

My county has a great county clerk who automated everything. I went on his website, put in my details, had the ballot mailed to me in 2 days, and returned it in the enclosed envelope right after.

[LittleFuzzy]

I don't bother voting absentee these days. My assigned polling place is about 150 feet down the street from where I live.

[Loki]

I narrowly missed out on having my polling place be on campus, and I don't really want to go to some lame high school 2 miles away. A benefit of absentee voting is having the chance to look up info about the more local races; it's hard to remember who you're meant to vote for when there are elections for 15 different posts.

[Dreadnaught]

My county has a great county clerk who automated everything. I went on his website, put in my details, had the ballot mailed to me in 2 days, and returned it in the enclosed envelope right after.

What is this, 2012?