Plus Ryan will no longer feel beholden to Trump the second Trump stops being the nominee and starts being the president.
Plus Ryan will no longer feel beholden to Trump the second Trump stops being the nominee and starts being the president.
Hope is the denial of reality
In theory.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Can't Republicans just start openly stabbing each other in the back, like the Tories?
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
That's what the primary season was for
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Was.
Hope is the denial of reality
No, that's when they stab each other in the front.That's what the primary season was for
What's funny about all this (I suppose) is that we've spent the last 7 years hearing from the GOP about how Obama was going to turn America into a tyranny by confiscating everyone's guns and providing universal health care, any second now just-you-wait-and-see, and now they've been and gone and nominated what amounts to a fascist demagogue.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
I don't see the "Trump = fascist" thing. He's a numbnuts who doesn't understand how our government works, but his "fascist" abilities are as limited as Obama's. And it's not like any large segment of people actually like Trump. His polling suggests most of his potential voters rather dislike him and are voting for him with reservations.
Arguably it's more literally "fascist" for Hillary Clinton to have repealing the first amendment (freedom of speech/press) as part of her campaign platform because of a court case stemming from a video that insulted Hillary Clinton.
Have you been watching the same campaign as the rest of us?
Trump has called for violence against protesters, justified violence against journalists, is willing to go to extreme measures to get rid of reporters who don't praise him, relies on white supremacists and anti-Semites (and refuses to condemn them when they go after his enemies), wants to create religious tests for entering the country, wants ethnic tests for the judiciary, wants to kill family members of terrorists, uses the fascist American First slogan, wants to tear up all trade agreements, and praises dictators for being dictators. The only reason I wouldn't call him a full-out fascist is because he's not smart enough to have a consistent worldview, even a fascist one. But he clearly has very strong tendencies in the fascist direction.
Last edited by Loki; 07-30-2016 at 08:12 PM.
Hope is the denial of reality
I would say he is the worst kind of demagogue and populist but not a fascist.
As for inconsistency I don't think that is due to a lack of smarts. He has this campaign outsmarted the pundits and professional politicians time and again. I think his inconsistencies are due to his being a demagogue who is interested in himself rather than an idealist. His fascist tendencies are not due to a deep seated ideological worldview I suspect but rather due to a populist desire to target the support he thinks he needs.
Worryingly so far it is working. I tipped know anyone who rules out him working it out all the way to Pennsylvania Avenue now is a fool.
http://www.liberalamerica.org/2016/0...m-marines-dad/
Coulter has decided to go all-in into the racist category.
Hope is the denial of reality
Sounding a bit shrill there Loki.
Would you like a source for any one of those? I count only 2 claims there that are remotely objectionable...
Also, I can still remember a time when attacking POWs and families of dead soldiers was considered a bad thing.
Last edited by Loki; 07-31-2016 at 04:08 AM.
Hope is the denial of reality
Absolutely true. However when you enter into the political arena and take shots then they generally become fair game. Cindy Sheehan for example. Personal tragedy does not mean you get to lob attacks without getting stuff thrown back at you.
A lot of what you've posted about Trump has truth to however its a bit hyperbolic and said in a way to make it worse than it is. For example "is willing to go to extreme measures to get rid of reporters who don't praise him" can sound like he's actually calling for them to be done away with... permanently. When in reality you are talking about him banning reporters from his *private* campaign functions. No politician is ever required to allow the media near them.
Then you talk about 'fascist slogans' like America First. Not even in the same century anymore and do you think 99% of people (or even Trump himself) would even recognize where it was from until it was reported? Give it a rest already no serious political candidate is in favor of antisemitism or supporting a non-interventionist WWII policy. Trump is merely stating that America comes before the rest of the world, as is proper for every sovereign nation.
I dislike having to defend Trump. He's an egotistical ass who doesn't hold very Libertarian values when it comes to trade, eminent domain and ethanol subsidies. I find his near obsessive use of twitter and personal attacks on his rivals to be cheap gutter politics. Attack Marco for his past immigration stance, that's fair game. Mocking him for sweating? Really? The creepy attacks on Megan Kelly the utterly asinine comments about McCain are examples of why I hate the fact he's the Republican nominee and will not vote for him.
All that being said he isn't the bogey man. He's going to make a lot of things marginally worse but he isn't going to destroy the foundation of America or radically alter how we appoint judges, ally with dictators or become an actual dictator. The presidency has limits, he'd be a bad president but not a catastrophic one.
Real Talk: Trump is not going to 'calm down' if he becomes President
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Weimar Germany had checks and balances, too.
Hope is the denial of reality
Like I said, shrill. When you make outrageous declarations like this your position is weaker. When people predict utter doom and gloom of apocalyptic proportions that aren't grounded in reality they stop listening to you. If you cry wolf too often when an actual wolf shows up you won't get much traction because you've always cried wolf.
Right. Because Trump isn't the worst major party candidate in at least a century, right? And it's not like people much better than him didn't screw things up, right? Nixon, Carter, Hoover, all created only minor problems, right?
Hope is the denial of reality
So be accurate in your attacks and not hyperbolic. Plenty of legitimate grievances to bring up without going off the deep end with the sky is falling. Most of the more stupid policy suggestions Trump has made aren't able to be carried out by presidential fiat. Again, a bad president not a catastrophic one. And on the plus side all the SJWs will have conniptions that someone so un-PC got elected as president. Would be amusing but its highly unlikely Trump will win barring something particularly bad for Clinton coming out (and it needs to be AWFUL since her base is OK with her lies and cover-ups, they simply don't care) or if Clinton chokes in dramatic fashion in a debate (also unlikely, while she isn't good at the them she's got enough experience not to do a truly awful faux pas). /Shrug good popcorn either way.
A Trump presidency would be a good stress test for the consistution, since before now - despite the delusions of some on the right - there hasn't really been a president whose activity tried to be tyrannical.
I fully expect it to hold up reasonably well, but that doesn't mean he isn't what he is.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
The presidency of the US is by far the most powerful political position in the world. I simply can't respond to the argument that a lunatic in that position can't screw things up too badly.
Hope is the denial of reality
One of the worst yes but the worst is the sort of hyperbolic rhetoric that comes out every 4 years.
Name one who was worse. Trump has literally said and done dozens of the kind of things where 1-2 would have disqualified any other candidate.
Hope is the denial of reality
Okay, who was really the worst?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
So let's see:
Foreign policy experience: worst.
Foreign policy pronouncements: worst.
Domestic politics experience: worst.
Quality of domestic policy proposals: worst.
Political/historical knowledge: worst.
Willingness to learn: worst
Quality of advisors: worst.
Racism: worst since the Civil Rights era.
Xenophobia: worst since the Civil Rights era.
Temperament: worst.
Respect for the Constitution in general: worst.
Respect for the first amendment in particular: worst.
Knowledge of the Constitution: worst.
The best you can do is find someone who was equally bad on one or two dimensions.
FYI, I teach a course on US foreign policy (mostly post-WWII). We've had quite a few presidents with limited foreign policy knowledge. Trump is in a league of his own. A few presidents had little foreign policy knowledge/experience (still more than Trump), but had good advisors to compensate for that lack of knowledge. Trump does not and probably will not considering a vast majority of the GOP foreign policy establishment is in the Never Trump camp. And when I say vast majority, I mean there isn't a single credible foreign policy expert that currently works for Trump (Clinton has dozens). Neither does Trump seem to think that's a problem.
Last edited by Loki; 07-31-2016 at 09:41 PM.
Hope is the denial of reality
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
Steely might be right---the US has never been tested like it is right now. Even if our dysfunctional political process leads to a President Trump....I'm not convinced that will mean our Constitution and/or separation of powers will be undermined.
That's one thing I've not heard the news media or talking head wonks discuss, though. If our Constitution is strong enough, as written, then why should we be afraid of a Trump Presidency? Candidates can promise anything, but can't get anything done with congressional approval. Executive privilege is overrated, IMO.
It's only easy to blame the President for everything if you believe the President is responsible for everything. Personally speaking, I think we only hurt ourselves when we assign too much power and clout to POTUS. The real power is who hold the purse strings: congress and senate.
Every war since WWII has been started through executive action (and WWII was started at least partially due to FDR's actions). Clearly not a potent tool.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...-khans-attacks
Meanwhile, the Trumpeters are trying outstupid their candidate.
Hope is the denial of reality
He forgot Slovakia
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
The office is, yes. The man. . . not necessarily. Maybe you're right and our system is, in fact, no longer functional the way we think it is and just needs the right push to be toppled over like the facade it is you think it is. I'm not that pessimistic myself.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
He did say "in the last century" and he explicitly said "candidate." I can't think of a candidate who was viewed with the same amount of disbelief, revulsion, and horror since Teddy Roosevelt and since that was just over a century ago, Loki's comment is more or less accurate.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
What about Strom Thurmond?
Different era yes, but then you did say in "at least a century" not in the last couple of decades so he counts.
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