Can American conservatism survive intact & unadulterated?

[Enoch the Red]

Yes, and that is how we know that the boys were also responding to Philips's drumming and chanting. Their mocking dances were directed at him, when he stood before them. Prior to that, they were doing other things that weren't directed at Philips. Their parodies of his chanting were in response to his drumming and chanting. Prior to that, they were shouting other things, in response to other people.

I agree. Clearly some of the behavior and mocking was directed at Philips. It was juvenile. It is not how I would want my children to behave.

However, I am not shocked by juvenile behavior coming from juveniles. If an elderly German man playing an accordion pushed his way into that crowd, I would not be surprised to see parodies of him, confusion, and mocking. It was childish behavior. What I have yet to see is behavior that warrants death threats, threats of physical violence, and a virtual lynching.

I'm sorry, I haven't been smoking from the same crack pipe as you, so I have to ask: what exactly gave you the impression I was surprised? As for bias, whether you consider recall bias or selection bias, testimonials that allege systemic problems--corroborated eg. by accounts of racist dog-whistle chants, documented use of blackface, stigmatization of LGBT+ youths etc--cannot be dismissed as insignificant anecdotes. The vast majority of people attending CCH do not belong to those minority groups that are targeted by bigots, while many may be complicit in the bigotry; their accounts of how every day at CCH was just a normal day are not informative. You're implicitly pushing a very naive conception of systemic problems that basically states that a culture of racism, for example, can't be said to exist in an organization unless each and every member of a racial minority is racially abused all day every day, and all the majority members acknowledge this to be the case. In reality, those who are not victims of abuse will frequently not indicate any awareness of abuse occurring, while victims will see not only their worst abusers but also those who are just casual participants, those who give tacit approval, those who tolerate abuse and those who attempt to cover it up.

I fully expect that there are sexist, or racist, or homophobic bigots at that school - in both the staff and the student body. It is likely true of any group of people sufficiently large. What I have not seen you provide is good evidence that goes beyond Twitter posts and anecdotes, something I hardly consider to be revelatory, especially in light of the scandal. It seems sufficient for you though to write off a school and everyone in it, so keep up the good work comrade!

I'm sorry, but I think clarity is important in these discussions: I'm not calling you a racist, I'm saying that the "heuristics" you employ are the same ones racists exploit when they manage to pull the wool over the eyes of their useful idiots.

Then please, be clear. What heuristics do I employ? Looking at people as individuals instead of members of arbitrary groups? Ah yes, the tool of the super racist.

Reading the thread, which I now see has had a wildly disproportionate impact on your composure, was unnecessary when it came to answering the specific question you had about OG's specific claim of Philips being "surrounded". It was clear that you yourself did not have a grasp of the context or the facts, so I provided a clip showing he was surrounded, and later pointed out that the longer video does not support your claim that Philips somehow pushed himself into the crowd--that, instead, the crowd folded around him. It's not a big deal, but clearly it was super important to you. Reading the twitter thread became necessary later on, when you began to froth at the mouth over my failure to criticize something OG had posted, so that's when I read it, and I concluded that I disagreed with her portrayal of the video. But then you lost your shit again because now your delusion about me and OG being the same person was suddenly being challenged.

...but afaict OG has not posted anything in this latest conversation that even comes close to the weird-ass fanfic of your video.

If you believe OG has stated something that is really dumb and unsupported by any evidence, you're perfectly capable of raising that objection yourself.

I clearly was giving you too much credit, and taking what you said at face value. I apologize. I recognize now something resembling honesty can not be expected in a conversation with you.

*shrug* I'm not really all that Scandinavian, whereas you're increasingly beginning to resemble a caricature of... I don't even know what you're supposed to be anymore other than "not like those LIBRULS waaahh".

The caricature starts with an M and ends with an inx.

He did not walk "into" the crowd so much as he walked up to it. There were a number of choices available to the children. They could have moved, if they felt he was being aggressive. They could've called for help if they felt they were being harassed, which they certainly were by the other group. They could've listened without mocking him. Philips alleges he heard several of them make derogatory remarks about Native Americans, and they certainly had the option not to say such things. Those are a few of the options that were available to them and their adult chaperones.

And Philips had the option of not interjecting himself into the situation. Again, the original story was that he was surrounded by these students while minding his own business. That is not factually what happened. He was not surrounded by these students who were seeking him out to mock him and intimidate him.

I can form an opinion based on the information available to me. You can choose to form a different opinion, or not form any opinion at all. Your snark, however, is misguided, and reflects your naive straw-man conception of systemic problems--everyone must be 100% guilty of everything all the time--rather than my thoughts about the school in question.

The unfortunate corollary to what appears to be your position is that people can be 100% guilty without evidence or reason. I would guess that boy was already guilty in your mind because he wore a red hat. He was guilty because he was protesting abortion. Sadly I suspect what he did or did not do, does not really matter to you. He is guilty because the mob said so.

Oh my god you ridiculous man, you don't even know what horses there are to back. I get it, you're really keen on this whole global liberal conspiracy narrative, but if you want to have a real conversation suggest you first end the imaginary conversation you're having with your imaginary opponents.

When you are ready to talk I'll be happy to listen.