The in-person voter fraud that keeps Republicans up at night cooking up photo ID legislation is the kind made possible by laws that allow people to identify themselves without photo ID.Originally Posted by RandBlade
The in-person voter fraud that keeps Republicans up at night cooking up photo ID legislation is the kind made possible by laws that allow people to identify themselves without photo ID.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
It's only essentially wrong if you provide the counter factual percentage of those who drive 2 hours. Especially it you're disregarding the difference between can't and don't.
A provisional driver's license is not a driver's license nor would it be acceptable id for voting. Your own cited pages mention you have to GO IN for a vision test, at a driving test centre, as one of the steps for securing the actual license. And Alabama closed the testing centers in many of those communities. Stop being a lying little weasel. What is it you think you accomplish by pretending that people don't have to actually go into a testing centre to get a license in the UK?
Last edited by LittleFuzzy; 12-23-2017 at 07:53 PM.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Woah! A provisional license IS valid photo ID here, being ID that has been issued by the government. So you can take back and apologise for the lying little weasel remark thank you very much. If they are refusing valid government issued IDs then that is pathetic.
Your eye test is done once to get your full driving license and is then valid until you turn 65 no matter how often you change your ID. Hence when I got my most recent ID changed I did it online in minutes.
Your eye test is done here when you take the original test. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE which time you have to get it done because you still have to get it done, and you have to go in to the (now closed) testing center to do it. No one is talking about renewing a license, you lying little WEASEL. And a provisional permit is not a license nor is it photo id. Why would it be? It doesn't include a photo. No one has ever claimed otherwise nor pretended it is. No one said a word about provisional permits until you decided to pretend they were part of the topic as part of your lying little WEASEL routine, so it doesn't matter one goddamn. And in point of fact, the Alabama provisional license is only for minors anyway. Since you're a lying little WEASEL permit me to explain that means they couldn't vote REGARDLESS.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
You added in this line.
You go to a testing centre to take the test. Of course you do, never suggested you can pass your test online. You do that once and it's valid for life, assuming you don't lose it of course. However we were talking about ID not licenses.What is it you think you accomplish by pretending that people don't have to actually go into a testing centre to get a license in the UK?
Provisional licenses have photos on them.
I didn't say anything about Alabama's system I linked to our system and our Provisional Licenses have photos and are the ID that learner drivers use. Not sure why you're claiming our Provisional Licenses don't have photos when they do.
We're talking about licenses, because that is the most common form of acceptable id. I know we're talking about licenses because you're a lying little weasel and linked to the UK requirements "To get your first provisional driving licence online for a moped, motorbike or car." Nothing anywhere on that page about any kind of non-license id, you lying little weasel.
And you have go to into the ALEA office to get an id too. As Aimless pointed out, if you could do it online, effectively anonymously, than it couldn't be used as vaiid id for voting in the first place because it circumvents the ENTIRE FUCKING IDEA. But you can't acknowledge that because you're a lying little WEASEL
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT YOUR STUPID CARDS. YOUR CARDS DON'T LET YOU VOTE IN ALABAMA YOU WEASEL.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
I'm such a lying little weasel I've managed to hack the government's website to include this photo. Provisional license is the green one with the big red L for Learner above the lying little weasel photo.
Dude. Come on.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Never said they did, did I? I said America's system is bad and should be changed and used ours as a counter example that you then through a fallacious hissy fit about turning nasty about when you were wrong and I was telling the truth. What part of me saying your system should change made you think I was defending your system?
And now the lying little weasel is pretending that UK mark in the corner is the signifier for a valid Alabama license or id.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Yes. And because you're a lying little weasel, the basis for this claim was that you did not actually have to go in to any testing center (like the ones that are being closed in Alabama) to get an id. And I showed from your own link that you were a lying little weasel about that, that you DO have to go in and take tests, including a vision exam, which can't be done online and shows how completely bankrupt your whole line of argumentation was. You're a lying little weasel and your thesis is wrong even for the UK. It certainly proves you dead wrong in your feigning superiority over Alabama, and the fact that you insist these lies accomplish something just further buttresses my claim that you are nothing but a slime-covered weasel.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
I don't accept Aimless's point as I think and said that other steps can and should be taken to prevent identity theft and identity fraud.
A provisional license Is a type of license here and it is full Photo ID and done either online or by post from start to finish. Dealing with ID especially for young people is a part of my job and I see Provisional Licenses as Photo ID very regularly.
No you are categorically wrong! The vision test is part of the full license (the pink photo ID) not the provisional (the green photo ID).
You must already have the provisional photo ID before taking it to your test. In fact you take it to your test to demonstrate that you're the one taking the test! The ID is BEFORE the Test!
Are UK passports free?
Cause I can see where you can apply for a provisional license online, but that it also requires documentation, and the passport is recommended (making the license an unneeded step in registering to vote). Provisional is a valid photo ID, but not a proof of address.
https://www.gov.uk/id-for-driving-licence
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
No they're not free. I never claimed our system is perfect and infallible.
Alternative ID includes your Birth Certificate (replacements can be ordered online, by phone or post) AND a document including your NI number (social security number) which again can be ordered on the phone if needed. I need to take proof of right to work in the UK for all Employees (I can go to prison if I don't) and for British citizens it's the exact same rules on ID needed. Interestingly neither your Birth Certificate nor any NI documents include photos while for employment a drivers license is not valid ID as it doesn't state your nationality.
Proof of address and proof of identity are normally two different things here. Proof of address is typically a bill registered to your name at your address.
The vision test is given along with the written in Alabama. And it doesn't matter one goddamn whether a vision test goes along with the full road test or an earlier step because you have go into the testing center one way or the other regardless (in fact, as I pointed out in my first fucking post you can do the written and the road test in the same freaking visit) which means you raising this ridiculous UK example is just you being your lying weasel self in the first place.
You don't need a provisional id to take the test here. You don't need id at all. An id is what you get coming out, not going in. Your "provisional id" doesn't exist at all here. Any attempt to bring it up or reason from it is you being a lying little SNAKEYou must already have the provisional photo ID before taking it to your test. In fact you take it to your test to demonstrate that you're the one taking the test! The ID is BEFORE the Test!
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Im not even looking at the holes in the system, just pointing out that you two fools are trying to compare apples and oranges. Your license and it's legal usefulness isn't comparable to ours. Our licensing process is pretty close to your (and our) passport process, but a bit cheaper.
Does your passport process require it to be filed by a trained or certified professional like ours?
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
I'm not trying to compare apples and oranges. I'm trying to get that snake to STOP.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
RB, being able to do things online instead of having to get someone to take several hours off work to help you is certainly good, but this suggestion isn't helpful or relevant to the issue being discussed here. The problems fixated on by people who champion voter ID laws can't be addressed by any IT-based solution that doesn't require people to go, in person, to eg. a DMV office, at some point. Renewing ID is easier than getting eligible ID to begin with, and the challenges to getting ID that you might see in much of the US are different from what you might encounter in the UK or in Sweden. Long distances and difficulties with taking time off are just part of it. In Sweden, the state already knows a ton about you, and it's easy to verify your identity in order to either get ID or just vote without ID. The UK is fairly good at keeping track of its citizens. In the US you have more people who encounter difficulties due to having moved from one state to another, or poorly maintained records, misspelled birth certificates, poverty etc. Your suggestions don't help with those obstacles. you're right, things should be better, but they aren't going to be for a long, long time. Until then, we should consider pragmatic compromises so as to not infringe on the right to vote.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
As for fraud etc, you're right, it is already illegal, but that's clearly not sufficient for those who demand increasingly stringent voting laws.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
What lie have I told? You get photo ID online which was the point. No visits necessary.
Great your system is perfect. It is the king of systems. There are no flaws at all. Nothing could potentially be done any differently or any better because it's not what you do today so therefore why change it? Nosiree nothing to see here.You don't need a provisional id to take the test here. You don't need id at all. An id is what you get coming out, not going in. Your "provisional id" doesn't exist at all here. Any attempt to bring it up or reason from it is you being a lying little SNAKE
Is that what you want to hear?
I never said it was the same as yours. I said your system could be improved.
I'm glad you agree things could be improved and that's all I suggested. I've said all along I oppose voter suppression and I would oppose voter ID requirements unless that ID is cheaply, easily and conveniently available.
No idea. I've only ever dealt with the passport office via post* so I have no clue who deals with it once they open the post.
*Actually once when I lost my passport not long before a flight I got a fast tracked replacement and I took the paperwork to the passport office in Liverpool. That entailed just dropping it off at a reception desk and paying an exorbitant fee. Nothing else differed and I'm sure the receptionist who took the paperwork wasn't the one who'd process it.
That includes getting not just renewals of mine (my parents got my first one when I was young) but also getting first passports for both my daughters. All done by post.
You don't get id that you can use to vote with online. Your claimed id doesn't exist here, and would not be valid id for voting even if it did. I can get photo id on my credit card, or with my gym membership, but they're not valid for voting in Alabama. You are a lying weasel when you try and pretend that the UK is some paperless society which doesn't require someone to go in to get a driver's license, the same as they have to do in Alabama, and you're a lying weasel when you pretend that you can do any kind of reasoning about things in Alabama by looking at your own system rather than by just looking up the requirements and systems used in that state. So both the main topic for this thread right now and the side-topic you tried to introduce. The common denominator in those two topics? You being a lying little weasel.
Great your system is perfect. It is the king of systems. There are no flaws at all. Nothing could potentially be done any differently or any better because it's not what you do today so therefore why change it? Nosiree nothing to see here.
Is that what you want to hear?
Oh hey, look, you're still being a little gutter snake. Quelle surprise.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
I never said you do there! Where did I say "in America you can get ID you can use to vote by going to a British government's website"?
I never pretended that the UK was a paperless society, I said that where possible going into an office should not be necessary.
I never said the Alabama system was like ours, I used ours as a counter example that I'm familiar with where lessons can be drawn.
So everyone of your alleged lies are for things I never said in the first place. You're angry at straw men.
I said that if there is a desire to get photo ID to be easily available then that can be done and the system should be improved. Furthermore that improvement should be done BEFORE you demand ID from voters.
Last edited by RandBlade; 12-23-2017 at 10:17 PM.
Missed this. No I never did. You're full of lies which is ironic given your penchant for crying liar. I said that was ours I NEVER said it was Alabama's.
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