In florida the state legislature has a finger in controlling tuition, and as a way to get around it, student fees for a year at my old college have climbed to just under 2 grand. Thats still considered cheap.Originally Posted by RandBlade
Also, our semesters are based around seasons. fall, spring and summer. A year of fees only pays for 2 semesters.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Three Terms or Semesters?
Florida State University again has on its website a cost of just 6.4k per annum for 2 Semesters. Surprised how cheap it is.
https://admissions.fsu.edu/freshman/finances/costs.cfm
Two semesters plus a summer session. The summer session is generally optional, acts as a fast tracked semester, and can be taken in order to more quickly get your degree or for elective courses.
What were we saying about machines replacing cake-frosters once the cost of human cake-frosters people gets too high?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy3Oy5mmMiA
They bought an expensive 3-D printer because human labor was too expensive?We've already established large bakeries use automation, robotics, computers etc, and differentiated them from mom 'n pop speciality shops with unique and handmade products.
The workers loading the machines with ingredients, cleaning them, and doing quality control won't be earning what the engineers and computer programmers will, but they should still be paid a living wage. That's the point of raising it from $7.25/hour.
Rand, in-state tuition is much lower because it's subsidized by the state and its tax payer residents.
If you want to get a better idea about the costs of college/university in the US, look at out-of-state or non-resident tuition rates, excluding any financial aid or academic scholarships.
FSU charges non-residents $34,000 for 30 credit hours and inclusive costs.
(And if you're an international student, your healthcare premium is an additional $1,700.)
Last edited by GGT; 04-15-2013 at 07:35 AM.
This post is an expansion of "in-state tuition", with some personal anecdotes and tangents alike. My parents divorced around the same time I entered college. My mother moved to Florida, my father remained in Indiana. I hadn't turned 18 years old but had to decide which state would be my primary residence, and which state university I would attend....based on which parent I "picked".
In other words, I was forced to "choose" between my parents and my education, and divorce myself from their divorce, depending on the ability of their attorneys. It sucked.
This is a similar experience undocumented "Dreamers" face, with many more ramifications and legal consequences. Difficult choices that begin with having no choice at all. A decent federal minimum wage can go a long way toward leveling the playing field, distorted as it is.
And our taxes subsidise our universities but an Englishman wanting to study at an English University must pay £9000 in fees now (~$14,000) so don't pretend we're your socialist paradise. All that while paying much more on taxes on what we earn than you do.
If you were dictator in charge and could name your ideal Federal Minimum Wage what would it be? What impact would you accept that having on unemployment and inflation?
Socialist paradise?
FFS, it's one part of our labor laws, not dictatorship. We've already gone through this -- it's not been proven to cause higher unemployment or inflation. My "ideal" is to have the minimum rise with inflation and COL so it's a living wage. An added plus is fewer people needing Welfare or gov't assistance.If you were dictator in charge and could name your ideal Federal Minimum Wage what would it be? What impact would you accept that having on unemployment and inflation?
GGT you seem to think everything in England comes back to the NHS - which has its many faults by the way. What proportion of state expenditure do you think goes to the NHS? Please don't Google, guess. How significant do you think it is since it seems to be the main thing you associate with us.
Our university fees for applying to 'same state' universities are £9000 per annum. How much more do you think we're subsidising them with taxes? That £9000 is just fees, we also have obviously living expenses that need borrowing or covering etc too and living costs are higher here.
Dictator in charge was obviously an expression, I don't expect you to become a dictator. If you could name a minimum wage what would it be? "Enough to ..." isn't a figure, a dollar figure please. $8, $10, $15, $30 ... Any number you please, what would it be?
No, I'm not taking that bait. I'd rather discuss minimum wage, and what that "buys" in purchasing power for the minimum wage earner.
Then don't bring up an irrelevance if you don't want to discuss it please.
Lets get back to the minimum wage then - how high should it be?
Healthcare costs aren't irrelevant. Just ask US minimum wage full-time workers who don't get employer subsidies, don't qualify for Medicaid, AND can't afford private health insurance.
I'm focused on minimums, not maximum heights. Federal minimum wage is an average of all 50 states and their local COL. I'm not opposed to a different mathematical model, so long as it's a living wage in every state.
In other words, who falls through the cracks of the social and economic micro-mismanagment that our government produces when it tries to create things like the "minimum wage".
It's easy to use catchphrases like living wage without being specific. Whether federally or even just one state please could you state a figure as to what that means?
living wage for my county is 10.75 I believe. After 7 years without wages that will now be the minimum the county is willing to pay a full time employee. Positions above that will be adjusted accordingly.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Rational response: hire fewer full time employees.
Hope is the denial of reality
or this is the wage we would have arrived at anyway if the teaparty disease hadn't so badly infected Florida.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
You could arrive at this any way you want, but if you think forcing people to pay that much for the most unskilled jobs isn't going to lead to more temp workers, I have a bridge to sell you.
Hope is the denial of reality
i don't see how anyone is being forced into offering that wage. Thats the county finally catching up after numerous studies showed its compensation plans to be so ridiculously behind the private sector. How many years ago did I first mention we were 8% behind? and most departments have part/fulltime ratios they have to stick to.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Why shouldn't you be behind?
I'll take this complaint seriously when the level of job protection in the public sector matches that of the private sector.
As for the last part, what you're saying is there will be less hiring in general. Great news I suppose. Unless you work for the county and will have to do more work for the same pay...
Hope is the denial of reality
I'm not totally ignoring the misplaced concept that government employees are lazy, have special protections, or performing unskilled jobs. So I understand that no matter what officials are going to bend to that squeaky wheel. I've posted before about our hiring freezes, you all have commented before on how horrible my insurance is, and even dread has admitted i'm doing tasks outside of what my job title is.Why shouldn't you be behind?
So maybe its time for our pay to catch up to the norm, or the very least something we can live off of.
Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 04-17-2013 at 02:04 PM.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Not to be too snarky, but my private sector employees goes through hiring freezes, comparably bad insurance coverage, and people doing more work with less staff, and doing things outside their 'job title'. All the while with very little merit increases since the financial boo boo. All without any real 'job security'.
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
Hiring freezes are neither unusual nor anything special for the private sector. Private sector companies use their own funds, raise their own revenues and live and die by it - the public sector does not. It will never be the same.
Just as one critical example of a difference: Many small, medium and large private sector employers over recent years have gone bankrupt causing ALL employees of the company to lose their jobs. Please let me know how many Counties have gone bankrupt in recent years resulting in ALL county employees without exception losing their jobs? How many counties have closed down completely and gone into history without replacement? Not just a library or equivalent but every single county employee in the entire county just as every single employee in many large employers that have gone bust have been laid off.
Our departments are funded through different taxing districts. When those funds fail or fall people are fired, entire departments do fall. I answer calls for code enforcement now because citizen action center was dissolved, those employees fired, when the economy tanked. When positions are dissolved you're not shuffled somewhere else. you're gone. My mom was in one of those dissolved positions a few years ago, along with 40 other people, the position hasn't come back yet. you have the ability, just like everyone else to apply for an open position elsewhere, but that's no different than coming in off the street or from schooling.
That's without having to touch the powers given to emergency managers that are popping up around the country.
what you're suggesting is like saying an entire mall should bankrupt before its acknowledged that Sear's closing had an effect on anyone or anything.
Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 04-17-2013 at 04:57 PM.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Positions come and go in the private sector. Departments come and go in the private sector. What I'm talking about is the entire head employer vanishing.
What I'm saying is like Sears vanishing with all Sears stores closing down. That happened here in the UK (I don't know American examples but sure there are some) with many companies in recent years. Woolworths, one of the largest high street chains, went bankrupt early in the recession: All 807 Woolworths stores closed down with 27,000 job losses. Not one Woolworths store but all of them. How many people work for your County? Not a fraction of it gets closed potentially in the private sector, but all of it. 100% of the staff from the entire company, tens of thousands of people, all being laid off at the same time.
In the last 6 months alone we've lost many "big names" due to the companies failing nationally: Jessops, HMV, Blockbuster, Currys, JJB Sports and that's just off the top of my head. Can't think of any counties that have shut down. Unless you're willing for entire counties to close overnight laying off all that counties staff don't compare it to companies where that is a real risk - you just make yourself look silly. Somehow I think you'd object a bit more to 100% of a counties staff (including all subdivisions, branches, sub-organisations etc) being laid off than 100% of a private companies staff (including all subdivisions, branches, sub-organisations etc). I certainly don't think you'll be able to name as many counties that have vanished with everyone being fired as a result as private companies have during this recession.
The other option seems to be that you look for new employment, perhaps in a field that will make better use of your abilities.
Are you suggesting he takes pro-active responsibility for his own life?
That if there's a plethora of easy, high-paying cushy private jobs as he's suggesting that he could apply for one?
I'm led to believe by lefties that there's a problem with that but I just don't see it.
That's a bit harsh.
A more polite way version: Overcoming job/life inertia can be tough. I needed a STRONG push to get out of the movie theater biz, which landed me a job I found out I did NOT like, but paid better than what I was making, and then led me into another job with the same company that I LOVE.
With OG's decription of what he currently does sounds like he should shop around if he does not like what he gets paid now. He just has to hit the pavement/internet(obviously not giving up his current job until he finds one), and then he can negotiate a better rate of pay (as opposed to government jobs...where you really can not).
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
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