Any solution will, as we Germans say, attempt to square a circle.
Any solution will, as we Germans say, attempt to square a circle.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
In other news... no passporting. I say "news" but obviously expected by everyone.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Oh well. Anything that any Brexiteer of any denomination ever saw as possible after Brexit is proving to be just another pipe dream so this should be no surprise to anyone.Originally Posted by Aimless
Congratulations America
Trade deal so no hard border between A and D. Its not us insisting upon a hard border between A and D.
It'll certainly be interesting to see how this is resolved.
I thought leavers explicitly voted for a "hard border"? Wait, actually, I don't think they collectively had a clue what they were voting for
And anyway, on trade, the EU won't budge and rightly so (from their perspective). MB today: "Those who say Britain can enjoy parts of the single market must stop this contradiction... The integrity of the SM is non-negotiable".
Pretty sure we knew this before we voted, but let's just hope David Davies et al can persuade them otherwise. Are you confident they can?
Leavers [as a whole, I was not that bothered] voted for migration control but that's not an issue. Migration control doesn't happen at the border, it happens when getting a job, place of residence etc
When I hire somebody I need to take proof of right to work in the UK, I can go to prison if I hire someone who doesn't have the right to work in the UK. I have been on holiday to multiple nations where I have no right to work without ever getting a visa. If you want to you could get plane tickets today without a visa to visit Australia, the USA or Canada but good luck getting a legal job in any of those nations without one!
Free movement across Ireland is not affected by border control between England and France which already exists anyway. Try getting from England to France without showing your passport to anyone already today - we're not in Schengen and neither are Ireland already. But even if the English/French border control was abolished that wouldn't affect control of migration very much.
So all that matters is trade and we can and should negotiate that.
No but until we start talking we can't know what issues need addressing, it is a logical impossibility.And anyway, on trade, the EU won't budge and rightly so (from their perspective). MB today: "Those who say Britain can enjoy parts of the single market must stop this contradiction... The integrity of the SM is non-negotiable".
Pretty sure we knew this before we voted, but let's just hope David Davies et al can persuade them otherwise. Are you confident they can?
They did not. Most appeared to be more or less unaware of this problem and so voted for or endorsed policies that have a hard border as a necessary consequence (specifically, leaving SM & customs union).
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I'm starting to favor putting the UK in the group of nations whose citizens need to apply for a visum for all types of visits.
Congratulations America
That's insane, it'll make it much more difficult to go watch musicals when they retaliate with their own visa requirements.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
At most they'll introduce some e-visum you can get by paying €10 or so by credit card.
By the way, EMA goes to Amsterdam. That is good news for me I guess
Congratulations America
Extremely sad day for corruption.
But not as sad as Sandro Gozi saying that losing the EMA contest is like losing the world cup on a coin toss.
Because apparently losing the EMA contest is the closest Italy is getting to the world cup finals
In more hilarious news:
Twitter Link
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Aaaand EBA to Paris.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Well there goes the country/ my job.
So... somewhere else in Europe or SEA?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Hmm. Am partially involved in a Brexit project at the bank at present, shifting all our Euro-Clearings operations from London to Paris in anticipation of adverse moves like no-passporting.
London hosts the vast majority of Euro-clearings at present, where almost exactly 1 trillion euros are cleared daily. Banks moving that operation out of London is substantial.
Yes, Paris is nice.
Looks like the government is gearing up for a 'deal or no deal' show down in coming days offering €40bn with strings attached, especially that we move on to trade talks in December.
If the EU rejects that then we should walk away and start preparing for a no deal hard Brexit.
In your situation I'd make that move rather sooner than later. I don't really see the EU making life hard for UK-citizens working and living in the EU27 prior to Brexit.
Congratulations America
God you are such a moron. Rest assured that a €40bn offer will also be deemed insufficient. Also know you are not going to 'walk away' from anything. You will put your signature to a positively horrid deal and learn to be happy with it. Oh, and you'll pay whatever we calculate you still owe us, well before you get the pleasure of saying thank you for the fact that we will talk about giving you that horrid deal.
Congratulations America
I don't know how to tell you this but, contrary to British caricatures, the EU doesn't just care about money--and so the settlement bill isn't the only matter on which you need to make "sufficient progress".
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
No there's also Ireland and Citizens Rights. Citizens Rights have been all-but-agreed already, Ireland can only be agreed with a deal. So that leaves yes, the money. Ireland is not going to be better off with no deal.
Nothing is settled about citizens rights as your government hasn't come up with proposals beyond the blatant lie that 'nothing will change'. As for the Ireland matter; the PM of Ireland holds a different opinion on that. And since he has a veto, and you nor your PM does, what he says counts.
Ireland may not be better off with no deal, but they sure as hell won't be in the dumpster like you will. No deal doesn't mean you go back to some fall-back default; it means you have no deals on nothing. And for starters; those planes will not fly.
Congratulations America
And that helps Ireland how? Is there a currency now on schadenfreude?
interesting how I always have to remind you that you are the village idiot blabbering about no deal scenario’s you should choose for. No deal does also not get me roling on the floor. What will is giving me immense schadenfreude is the fact that you lot will be begging even for a lousy deal in the not too far away future.
Congratulations America
I've not once said there should be no deal, I've said all along I want and expect a deal.
You are the village idiot blabbering about no deal scenarios. You claimed that the Irish PM might veto a deal because while "Ireland may not be better off with no deal, but they sure as hell won't be in the dumpster like you will." That's moronic. The Irish Taoiseach is not seeking to send the UK into the dumpster, he is seeking to make Ireland better off. Vetoing a deal does not serve that purpose.
Congratulations America
Where in that do I say I want or desire the EU not to agree a deal? I want the EU to be reasonable and move on to trade talks. Do you struggle to comprehend the meaning of the first word you have bolded?
If the EU isn't reasonable and won't agree a deal we can't force the issue. If a no deal hard Brexit is what is coming then we need to prepare for it.
Why do you think it's the EU being unreasonable and not us?
We have compromised on multiple areas and have made generous offers like ensuring that we take the financial burden of us leaving despite having no obligation to do so.
The EU's own Constitution or sorry Lisbon Treaty as it was renamed makes no reference to divorce payments etc in Article 50 but does specifically mention negotiating the "future relationship" which so far the EU has failed to do. It isn't honouring it's own Treaty.
€40bn as an exit fee would be ludicrously generous it is 4 years worth of payments. If that is rejected then yes it is the EU eminently being unreasonable.
Similarly on the Irish issue we have said all along we want no hard border. The EU has insisted unilaterally there needs to be one due to customs and trade ... and there can't be one ... and asked us to square that circle before we discuss customs and trade. It's unreasonable. It's like someone in a relationship insisting they won't have any form of sex until marriage but will only marry someone who gives them orgasms before marriage.
Your generous offer amounted to:
1. nothing on the Irish border besides saying in the media you want a 'frictionless border'. Which you couldn't even provide for if you're not in the SM and CU and hadn't started setting up the system for years before you voted for Brexit.
2. nothing specific on citizen's rights and whatever did come out fell short far of the 'nothing will change' promise.
3. nothing on the money besides your PM saying that you might be paying your membership fees as long as we give you full membership benefits.
If that is your definition of 'generous' I'd rather not bother at all.
As for what you think about whether or not you are under any obligation to pay. We don't give a flying fuck about what you think about what you owe or do not owe. You desperately need a deal with us, any deal, and it is up to you to make it worth our while. So far you haven't even made it worth talking about it.
Congratulations America
Incorrect. The Irish border problem is easy to solve, it's just that the current govt can't solve it. The solution is simply to do whatever it takes to stay in the CU and SM. Solution no. 2 is to place the border around the entire island, but the govt. can't agree to that because they'll lose DUP if they do.
The "concessions" you've made aren't something you can get points for because they represent backtracking from positions that were known to be non-starters to begin with. It's like saying you deserve extra points for agreeing to play and to abide by the rules.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
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